No...I'm Right----No...I'm Right :)

[RANDOR]

Huh? another scripture........? who is talking down Jesus teachers...for I am one...............

Don't you have a say so in all this...........gee...........I ask a simple question..and I get a robot answer :)

Come on JW47.........talk from your heart :)

 

[Mr.Bride]

Huh? another scripture........? who is talking down Jesus teachers...for I am one...............

Don't you have a say so in all this...........gee...........I ask a simple question..and I get a robot answer :)

Come on JW47.........talk from your heart :)

Please... From the heart... Step out of that JW prison. The Truth shall make you free. The devil knows the Bible. Even better than you. But he can't live that life.... That Life..

 

[RANDOR]

Not a good thing to do--talk down Jesus teachers-- working against Gods will is the sin against the HS. This started with MR Russell. Daniel 12:4--- corrections had to be made.

Well, I had to look that one up...and for the life of me i'm baffled once again. Exactly what does Daniel 12:4 got to do with talking from the heart.

KJW47...me thinks you short circuited on this one :)

You do know you can think outside the box (Bible) and speak from the heart.

Come meet Jesus Christ....He's still waitin for ya :)
Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Ever “Good Enough”?

A telltale mark of any destructive cult is a continual progression of works along the path to salvation.
The adherent follows a strict set of rules and code of conduct. He or she works tirelessly to please the leadership of the organization which operates under the guise of God Himself.
Unfortunately the cult member is never granted 100% confirmation that he or she is “saved”. Whether they’ve been working for six months, a year or fifty years, there is always some question or seed of doubt placed in their minds by the leadership. There is always some new plateau of perfection to attain to.
With Scientologists they have to get to “clear” (their term for perfection) by paying through the nose for countless auditing sessions.
With Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have to maintain a level of performance inside the group while observing hundreds of written and unwritten rules regarding dress, grooming, employment, health, social status and associations as well as regular meeting attendance and spending countless hours in “field service” recruiting others for the cause and selling books and magazines for the mother organization. However the “perfection” they seek is still yet unattainable. They have to wait for Armageddon (the end of the world) to come so that they can spend the next thousand years seeking physical perfection. Even then they aren’t guaranteed their salvation. At any point during that thousand years they can “fall away” and be destroyed by Jehovah!

I call all this Bondage.....and so does Jesus Christ

Give your life to Christ and be free of all this :)

They have a form of religion but deny it's power. Here is a sample of that power::::::::::A NEW CREATION...YES, YOU ARE A NEW CREATION.

I see no joy in your rattling of scriptures. Jesus gives you all that when you give your life to Him.

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaa!! Thank you Jesus for forgiving me of all my sins.

And by the way.................I DON'T NEED ONE SCRIPTURE TO TELL ME HE WASHED ME WHITE AS SNOW...cause He did it personally.

Then and only then did I realize that scripture was in the bible....we'll I'll be....who would of thunk :)

 

[Secondhand Lion]

It is very plain---Gods power goes through Jesus-acts 2:22--it is God doing all of it through Jesus--Jesus is doing 0 of his own inititive,--this is the reality of what Gods word teaches.

....or....Jesus is God! That is the decision you face. Either you are right or the bible is.

 

[kjw47]

Well, I had to look that one up...and for the life of me i'm baffled once again. Exactly what does Daniel 12:4 got to do with talking from the heart.

KJW47...me thinks you short circuited on this one :)

You do know you can think outside the box (Bible) and speak from the heart.

Come meet Jesus Christ....He's still waitin for ya :)

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Ever “Good Enough”?

A telltale mark of any destructive cult is a continual progression of works along the path to salvation.
The adherent follows a strict set of rules and code of conduct. He or she works tirelessly to please the leadership of the organization which operates under the guise of God Himself.
Unfortunately the cult member is never granted 100% confirmation that he or she is “saved”. Whether they’ve been working for six months, a year or fifty years, there is always some question or seed of doubt placed in their minds by the leadership. There is always some new plateau of perfection to attain to.
With Scientologists they have to get to “clear” (their term for perfection) by paying through the nose for countless auditing sessions.
With Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have to maintain a level of performance inside the group while observing hundreds of written and unwritten rules regarding dress, grooming, employment, health, social status and associations as well as regular meeting attendance and spending countless hours in “field service” recruiting others for the cause and selling books and magazines for the mother organization. However the “perfection” they seek is still yet unattainable. They have to wait for Armageddon (the end of the world) to come so that they can spend the next thousand years seeking physical perfection. Even then they aren’t guaranteed their salvation. At any point during that thousand years they can “fall away” and be destroyed by Jehovah!

I call all this Bondage.....and so does Jesus Christ

Give your life to Christ and be free of all this :)

They have a form of religion but deny it's power. Here is a sample of that power::::::::::A NEW CREATION...YES, YOU ARE A NEW CREATION.

I see no joy in your rattling of scriptures. Jesus gives you all that when you give your life to Him.

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaa!! Thank you Jesus for forgiving me of all my sins.

And by the way.................I DON'T NEED ONE SCRIPTURE TO TELL ME HE WASHED ME WHITE AS SNOW...cause He did it personally.

Then and only then did I realize that scripture was in the bible....we'll I'll be....who would of thunk :)

The only religion that is unified in love and peace( perfect reflection of Jesus) you call a cult--how sad for your thinking ability--you choose a disunified mass of confusion over that.

Jw,s don't sell anything--you are confused on that. A JW chooses with their free will to listen to truths from Jesus' teachers--Jesus' teachers assuredly warn the flocks not to partake off the table of demons--only JW teachers do this--the rest promote partaking of that table in their darkness.

Please... From the heart... Step out of that JW prison. The Truth shall make you free. The devil knows the Bible. Even better than you. But he can't live that life.... That Life..

Jesus' teachers teach Jesus' truths-- you are so lost.

 

[RANDOR]

KJW47.......Now we be gettin somewhere :)

Of course they do......you are so right. Ahh not about the lost part.....use to be :)

There are so many Jesus teachers out there....lets take us for a second, meaning the ones who call Jesus Lord..that would be me :)

On our side of the fence..so to speak...are also many teachers. They are called pastors, priests, chaplins, ministers or lets say some teach bible studies and bible school.

Now to a born again Christian, even if these do not know Christ .well...they also won't see the kingdom.

You can talk and talk and talk about God to your last breath....but if ya haven't met Him and ask for forgiveness...well it's just talk and no action

KJW47....I love much because I've been forgiven of much :) Look......the bible didn't save me...Jesus did. and millions of others all over the world.

It's by grace, it's for all, it's now...and its FREE. God loves you.....what kind of God would He be if He made ya work for your salvation?

Would not His salvation be worthless? It would be like living in Korea....do this, do that, clap for their president or be killed.
to me...it has satan's signature all over it.
But words on a monitor screen is of no help here............you must take a stand on your on....if not to just humor me :)

Trust me...you won't catch on fire if ya just start talking to Jesus.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! you guys act like I'm askin ya to jump off a cliff :)

I go to church because I want to
I go to bible study because I want to
I talk to you because I want to
I give because I want to
I love because I want to
I listen to Christian radio because I want to
ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have to do nothing

And knowing me :) I probably wouldn't do anything if I had to.

Jesus didn't die on that cross for KJW47 because He had to.

 

[kjw47]

KJW47.......Now we be gettin somewhere :)

Of course they do......you are so right. Ahh not about the lost part.....use to be :)

There are so many Jesus teachers out there....lets take us for a second, meaning the ones who call Jesus Lord..that would be me :)

On our side of the fence..so to speak...are also many teachers. They are called pastors, priests, chaplins, ministers or lets say some teach bible studies and bible school.

Now to a born again Christian, even if these do not know Christ .well...they also won't see the kingdom.

You can talk and talk and talk about God to your last breath....but if ya haven't met Him and ask for forgiveness...well it's just talk and no action

KJW47....I love much because I've been forgiven of much :) Look......the bible didn't save me...Jesus did. and millions of others all over the world.

It's by grace, it's for all, it's now...and its FREE. God loves you.....what kind of God would He be if He made ya work for your salvation?

Would not His salvation be worthless? It would be like living in Korea....do this, do that, clap for their president or be killed.
to me...it has satan's signature all over it.
But words on a monitor screen is of no help here............you must take a stand on your on....if not to just humor me :)

Trust me...you won't catch on fire if ya just start talking to Jesus.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! you guys act like I'm askin ya to jump off a cliff :)

I go to church because I want to
I go to bible study because I want to
I talk to you because I want to
I give because I want to
I love because I want to
I listen to Christian radio because I want to
ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have to do nothing

And knowing me :) I probably wouldn't do anything if I had to.

Jesus didn't die on that cross for KJW47 because He had to.

You really need to look at reality---- in a satan ruled system as we live--its a 24/7 battle to remain in good standing with God. It is not being handed over on a silver platter--there are many do,s and donts that are a must to be living a righteous life now.

 

[RANDOR]

You really need to look at reality---- in a satan ruled system as we live--its a 24/7 battle to remain in good standing with God. It is not being handed over on a silver platter--there are many do,s and donts that are a must to be living a righteous life now.

Reality? That's what I have been giving you since we met :)
I agree it is a satan ruled society.

But.........I don't battle satan to keep in good standing with God....what worth is that....to you or God.

And you're right it is not a silver platter..........IT'S A GOLD PLATTER. :)

For when you are born again.........you don't fight satan to keep in good standing with God, for you are already in good standing....
YeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you are the heir to the King...God's child :)

You fight satan .......because now you have the weapon.... the only weapon that can defeat satan..It's called Jesus :)

In your case............you are fighting satan on your own...and he knows it.

God Bless ya KJW47....we actually had a conversation for once with no scriptures involved. :)
Oh- Yes one more thing.......do's and don'ts are called slavery......so ya see..you are not truly as free as you thought.
When you give your life to Christ it's called choice.
And you want to do what pleases God....because you have been set free from your past sins.........so you fall on your face and say thank you with your actions. And when he sees your cry...........He takes you by the hand........and that's when you finally understand these truths you so claimly think you know ;)

 

[kjw47]

Reality? That's what I have been giving you since we met :)
I agree it is a satan ruled society.

But.........I don't battle satan to keep in good standing with God....what worth is that....to you or God.

And you're right it is not a silver platter..........IT'S A GOLD PLATTER. :)

For when you are born again.........you don't fight satan to keep in good standing with God, for you are already in good standing....
YeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you are the heir to the King...God's child :)

You fight satan .......because now you have the weapon.... the only weapon that can defeat satan..It's called Jesus :)

In your case............you are fighting satan on your own...and he knows it.

God Bless ya KJW47....we actually had a conversation for once with no scriptures involved. :)

Oh- Yes one more thing.......do's and don'ts are called slavery......so ya see..you are not truly as free as you thought.
When you give your life to Christ it's called choice.
And you want to do what pleases God....because you have been set free from your past sins.........so you fall on your face and say thank you with your actions. And when he sees your cry...........He takes you by the hand........and that's when you finally understand these truths you so claimly think you know ;)

One must endure till the end to be saved--a 24/7 battle---Paul likened it to a race--one must cross the finish line. Its not over until your end. a 24/7 battle.

 

[RANDOR]

KJW47..of course it is a batlle........I agree 100%

We are all going to screw up and God knows it......But if you have given your life to Jesus the battle is between your ears.

Satan goes...............Ahhhh you are not worthy....God will never forgive you for doing that.....might as well kill yourself now and get it over with cause your skin is thin and you will never make into the kingdom. But here comes the good part...actually the truth...

Now lets talk back to satan..............Wait one dang minute.......I know I'm forgiven because I gave my life to Jesus and He came and forgave me of all my sins.
Jesus showed me His love........but now I know how to fight.........Thats when you reach up with your arm and crab ahold of that ladder rung and start climbing out of that temptation you gave into.
If you don't have Jesus as your personal savior...........you won't know what to do......and probably complete the suggestion from satan about killing yourself.

So this is the race you are pertaining to............You can't be good enough......come KJW47...how can you?

You need to be washed in the blood, sanctified and become God's kid :)

It's the sin KJW47............your sins............yesterdays, todays, and the tomorrows which follow.

If ya are still in your sins..try to get out of those yourself.

If Jesus hadn't forgave me of my sins.....yes.....I'd probably kill myself..cause me know myself very well :)

Now if satan knew I didn't know Jesus....and all the power God has gave Him..........I'm sure he wouldn't want me to find out.....so he would probably say.......There is a way to heaven.............just do this and do that........and here....use the scritpures in the bible....see...now doesn't that make since?

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO...............NEVER GIVE CHRIST YOUR LIFE....NEVER ASK FOR YOUR SINS TO BE FORGIVEN.....

Other than that .....you will be fine.....................NOT!!!!!!!!!!

kjw47.....if you think it's hard now........trying to do everything right...........wait until you decide to give your life to Christ satan will be all over you like a ton of bricks.

He will be sayin....no no no no no no ..................Randor..........and the majority of the Christians since time began are all wrong...you have to work to get into heaven.
Now get back to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Ya know what KJW47? satan fits perfectly underneath your boot.

PUT hIM THERE!!!

 

[kjw47]

KJW47..of course it is a batlle........I agree 100%

We are all going to screw up and God knows it......But if you have given your life to Jesus the battle is between your ears.

Satan goes...............Ahhhh you are not worthy....God will never forgive you for doing that.....might as well kill yourself now and get it over with cause your skin is thin and you will never make into the kingdom. But here comes the good part...actually the truth...

Now lets talk back to satan..............Wait one dang minute.......I know I'm forgiven because I gave my life to Jesus and He came and forgave me of all my sins.
Jesus showed me His love........but now I know how to fight.........Thats when you reach up with your arm and crab ahold of that ladder rung and start climbing out of that temptation you gave into.
If you don't have Jesus as your personal savior...........you won't know what to do......and probably complete the suggestion from satan about killing yourself.

So this is the race you are pertaining to............You can't be good enough......come KJW47...how can you?

You need to be washed in the blood, sanctified and become God's kid :)

It's the sin KJW47............your sins............yesterdays, todays, and the tomorrows which follow.

If ya are still in your sins..try to get out of those yourself.

If Jesus hadn't forgave me of my sins.....yes.....I'd probably kill myself..cause me know myself very well :)

Now if satan knew I didn't know Jesus....and all the power God has gave Him..........I'm sure he wouldn't want me to find out.....so he would probably say.......There is a way to heaven.............just do this and do that........and here....use the scritpures in the bible....see...now doesn't that make since?

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO...............NEVER GIVE CHRIST YOUR LIFE....NEVER ASK FOR YOUR SINS TO BE FORGIVEN.....

Other than that .....you will be fine.....................NOT!!!!!!!!!!

kjw47.....if you think it's hard now........trying to do everything right...........wait until you decide to give your life to Christ satan will be all over you like a ton of bricks.

He will be sayin....no no no no no no ..................Randor..........and the majority of the Christians since time began are all wrong...you have to work to get into heaven.
Now get back to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Ya know what KJW47? satan fits perfectly underneath your boot.

PUT hIM THERE!!!

One must be anointed to get to heaven--144,000 bought by Jesus blood--go to heaven. these are the little flock--the bride of Christ--to rule as kings and priests alongside Jesus helping during judgement. judging those on earth Gods word teaches--you know the ones brought through harmageddon and then the resurrection whom Jesus himself promised---blessed( happy) are the meek( mild tempered)m for they will inherit the earth.--not heaven--the earth.( great crowd)

 

[RANDOR]

jw's have been wrong wrong wrong since they came into being..It baffles me why they still hang out at the kingdom hall and continue.
Maybe they are being taught what they want to hear...oh-well

​

Will the great crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses inherit the earth and only 144,000 go to heaven? ​

The WATCHTOWER says, "YES, "but What does the Bible say ?​

[SIZE=14pt]Who Is the Great crowd?[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 7:9-1 5.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] The great crowd is a future people during a future time, the great tribulation.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]What is the location of the great crowd? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]"Before the throne" of God.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Revelation 7:9, 15.[/SIZE] Where are the 144,000? In exactly the same place, "before the throne" Revelation 14:1, 3. Compare 6:8-9; 6:9,11; 11:16.


[SIZE=14pt]Could being "before the throne" Possibly be integrated .in the sense of be in a before the[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] queen of England while living In North America? No. The great crowd will serve God "in his temple". Revelation 7:1 5.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]And where is the tabernacle of God which is spread over the great crowd? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Heaven! Revelation 7:9,15a; 13:6; 15:5-6.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]And where is the temple of God where the great crowd will serve? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The temple of God is "in heaven." Revelation 11:19; 14:17; 15:5-6.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Couldn't we say the great crowd Is[/SIZE] really to be on earth In the outer courts of the[SIZE=14pt] temple? No. The great crowd is going to be "in heaven". Revelation 19:1.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Oh. but[/SIZE] couldn't the great crowd In heaven be a different great crowd than the great[SIZE=14pt] crowd of chapter 7 ?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]1) Notice who is a part of the great crowd in chapter 7 and chapter 19. Chapter 19 - 24 elders, 4 beasts, servants, the bride or the saints, angels and an army (people).[/SIZE] Chapter 7 - people from around the earth who live during the great tribulation, angels, the elders, four beasts.


[SIZE=14pt]2)Notice[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] what the great crowd Is saying in chapter 7 mind chapter 19. Chapter 7 Salvation, glory, honor, power.[/SIZE] Chapter 19 -- salvation, glory, honor, power. 3) Notice what the great crowd Is wearing in chapter I and chapter 19. Chapter 7 - Vs. 9 white robes, vs. 13 white robes, vs. 13 white robes washed in the blood. Chapter 19 Verse 8 fine linen clean and white which is the righteousness of the saints, Verse 14 fine linen white and clean (the blood washing Is implied in verse 13 referring to the blood of Jesus)


[SIZE=14pt]The burden of proof is on the Watchtower to prove the great crowd-for some reason cannot go to heaven… What is this "proof "?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." Psalm 37:29. So will[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] the great crowd never go to heaven? Are not 144,000 righteous ?[/SIZE] Don’t they go to heaven ? Then we could say they don’t inherit the earth. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world !Then where is it until it comes to earth ?


[SIZE=14pt]But haven't you heard, "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Matthew 5:5. Are the meek, J.W.'s[/SIZE] who miss heaven? Then why aren't J.W.s "poor In spirit", verse 3, or "pure in heart!', verse 8, "persecuted for righteousness sake'. Verse 10 , or reviled, persecuted or spoken evil against falsely, verses 11-12? These go to heaven and see God!


[SIZE=14pt]Don't you think God-had—a purpose in creating this earth a paradise for man to dwell In[/SIZE]?[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]The inspired Scriptures declare "heaven" and "paradise" are synonymous a to[/SIZE] be used interchangeably since the resurrection of Christ. 11 Corinthians 12:2, 4. Is there really a verse of Scripture which reads, "paradise earth"? No


[SIZE=14pt]Someone inherits the "new Earth" somebody have[/SIZE] to be here to live on it?[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 22:1. Indeed' But does God slam the door of heaven shut and say, "Now you will never leave here again?" No. "The gates of it shall not be shut at all," verse 25 explains. Those who claim to have an earthly hope also hope their names are written in the Lambs Book of Life. There is better news. Those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life will enter "it. Revelation 21:27. "It !'[/SIZE] In the context of the chapter refers to heavenly Jerusalem. Believers get BOTH the new heaven and the new earth in the salvation package! "It" comes down from heaven with God to earth at the end of the Millennium.


[SIZE=14pt]Aim the 144.000 rule as- kings and -priests over the earth, don't they have to have somebody to rule over ?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Wrong question! The 144,000 rule "on" the earth.[/SIZE] Revelation 6:10. The New World Translation says "over" but the Greek says "upon". The Watchtower insists a resurrected and glorified body could not go to heaven, so it tries to keep the kings and priests above the earth as only spirit creatures. Living Christians at the end of the great tribulation will populate the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. Isn't It reasonable that the kings and priests will reign over them? Secondly, the 144,000 are never spoken of as being kings, priests or the bride of Christ In Revelation 7:3-8 or 14:1-6. They are a whole new group taken from Israel all at one time in the tribulation.


[SIZE=14pt]Didn't Jesus say He had other sheep of a different fold who would remain on the earth? John 10:16.1[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]No. Jesus was talking to Jews and introducing them to the world-wide evangelism of gentiles,who[/SIZE] are the other sheep. Jesus did NOT say they would remain separate. Quite the opposite! "There shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Not 2 folds, one in heaven and one on earth. Eph. 2 says he broke down the middle wall of partition making them one all the sheep are in 1 fold and have 1 shepherd, Not 2 shepherds (John 10:11) one In heaven and one on earth. To take this Scripture and still insist there will remain 2 folds is to distort and misrepresent the Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture! Ephesians 1:1 0.


[SIZE=14pt]Isn't[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] there an earthly hope for one group of Christians and a heavenly hope for a different[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] group![/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]No. There is "one hope". Ephesians 4:4. The hope, or confidence, is to be wherever Jesus is. There Is[/SIZE] only one body. I Corinthians 12:12,13,27; Ephesians 4:1116; Colossians 1:6. Scripture emphasizes "heavenly places". Ephesians 2:6. We become like our heavenly Jesus. Philippians 3:20-21; 1 John 3:2. We go to a heavenly kingdom. 11 Timothy 4:18. We go to the Father's house and be with Jesus. Where is the Father? Heaven. John 14:1-3. Those who sleep in Jesus will come with Him. I Thessalonians 4-14. After our earthly body is gone we get an immortal body in heaven. I Corinthians 15:42-66; 11 Corinthians 5:1,6-9. If you have believed on Jesus through the testimony of the apostles, you will be with Jesus. John 17:20, 24. J.W’s teach people from five different areas were all destined for heaven. I Peter 1:1, 4. Conservatively speaking, 144,000 people were saved from Acts 2:41-6:7, before Judge Rutherford took- away the heavenly hope in the 1930's. Matthew 23:13. The church at Ephesus alone was estimated from 20,000 to 26,000 people! The church of Jerusalem was larger than that. History tells us in 70 AD over 100,000 Jews fled Jerusalem to Pela because they remembered Jesus words of Jerusalem surrounded by armies. We have is heavenly calling, our citizenship is in heaven. Heb.11:13 tells us all who die in faith (not some) were strangers and pilgrims on earth, vs.16 they desired a heavenly country of which God has prepared a city for them.


[SIZE=14pt]But believers -from before the time of Christ cannot go to heaven, so won't they be[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] resurrected to life on earth with the great crowd?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]No. Old Testament saints will be in "heaven"! Matthew 8:1 1; Job 19: 25-26; Psalm 23:6; 73:24-25. The Bible does not contradict itself. Abraham looked for a city made by God, was a stranger on earth, and goes to the heavenly city prepared by God, Heavenly Jerusalem! Hebrews 11:8-16; 12:22.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Are the 144,000 really the J.W. grandpas and grandmas who claim to be anointed?.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]The 144,000 will be virgins, not grandparents. Revelation 14:1, 4.[/SIZE] They will be too busy serving God during the great tribulation to focus on watching out for the welfare of a family. The 144,000 will be sealed in the future after the 6th Seal, the Day of Wrath and the holding back of the four winds (Revelation 6:12,17; 7:1,3).


[SIZE=14pt]What nationality will these 144 000 be?,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]According to Scripture, Jewish.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Revelation 7:4. As the great crowd is from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, in contrast the 144,000 are sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, the twelve tribes([/SIZE]Revelation 7: 9,4). These are the same twelve tribes that come from Jacob. The 144,000 are not sealed to become Israelites, they are sealed OUT OF Israel to become members of the 144,000 Christian evangelists. In both Revelation 7 and 14, a clear distinction is made between the 144,000 sealed Israelites and "every nation." If we take "every nation" to be literal, we should also take "Israel" to be literal. For the Watchtower to go from literal to symbolic in the middle of a verse is complete Scripture twisting taking it out of the context it was written in. And how can anyone take 12 symbolic numbers, add them up and come up with a literal number of 144,000? If the Watchtower correctly says they aren't Jews, then why is the number of 144,000 literal? If they aren't Jews, then what is the long explanation of the tribes of Israel for? Rabbis, when asked if this is a literal list of the names of the tribes of Israel say it is authentic. The names vary in Scripture, due to serious sin and the loss of recognition of certain descendants of Jacob. The Jewish people were only laid aside temporarily so that Gentiles who are not of Israel can have salvation. In the future Romans 11:1 6-26 says all of Israel (the nation) will be saved. In contrast to the 144,000, the future kings are from every tribe, tongue, people and nation which happens to be from their great crowd. (Revelation 5:9-10).


[SIZE=14pt]Doesn't the Watchtower have the correct light on Scripture through the faithful and[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] discreet salve? [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]The Watchtower has serious problems trying to interpret Revelation. They published The Finished Mystery in 1917, Was[/SIZE] the mystery all over as they boasted? No. The latest book, Revelation - lts Grand Climax At Hand! is vastly different. The seven trumpets of Revelation lead from one trumpet into another according to Scripture. The order of the seven trumpets according to the Watchtower book is the 7, then 1,2,3,4,5,6. That’s no way to count to seven! God didn’t why do they ?


[SIZE=14pt]Is the great crowd really excluded from heaven? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The Watchtower's, Vindication- book three, p. 204, makes it clear the great crowd is expected to go to heaven. Why? Ezekiel says so! "This picture shows the position of the 'great multitude'. Even and anon someone advances the conclusion that the 'great multitude' will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures." Was this message from the Watchtower light or darkness? Did the Watchtower have the light of God's truth? Proverbs 4:18. If not, how does Scripture describe the teachers who taught this darkness? Proverbs 4:19.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Why did Jesus say you MUST be born again to enter the kingdom of HEAVEN[/SIZE] ? [SIZE=14pt]John 3:3,6[/SIZE]. He didn't! He said you will not see or enter the kingdom of Godunless you are born again. You will not reside in any part of God's kingdom unless you have been born of the Spirit. If this provision is only for the 144,000 then all the J.W’s today, those part of the great crowd will not have the kingdom! However It is all inclusive. I John 5:1. If you have a kingdom message, its not suppose to be paradise earth but you MUST be born again into it.

 

[kjw47]

jw's have been wrong wrong wrong since they came into being..It baffles me why they still hang out at the kingdom hall and continue.
Maybe they are being taught what they want to hear...oh-well

​

Will the great crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses inherit the earth and only 144,000 go to heaven? ​

The WATCHTOWER says, "YES, "but What does the Bible say ?​

[SIZE=14pt]Who Is the Great crowd?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 7:9-1 5.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] The great crowd is a future people during a future time, the great tribulation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What is the location of the great crowd? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]"Before the throne" of God.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Revelation 7:9, 15.[/SIZE] Where are the 144,000? In exactly the same place, "before the throne" Revelation 14:1, 3. Compare 6:8-9; 6:9,11; 11:16.

[SIZE=14pt]Could being "before the throne" Possibly be integrated .in the sense of be in a before the[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] queen of England while living In North America? No. The great crowd will serve God "in his temple". Revelation 7:1 5.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]And where is the tabernacle of God which is spread over the great crowd? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Heaven! Revelation 7:9,15a; 13:6; 15:5-6.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]And where is the temple of God where the great crowd will serve? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The temple of God is "in heaven." Revelation 11:19; 14:17; 15:5-6.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Couldn't we say the great crowd Is[/SIZE] really to be on earth In the outer courts of the[SIZE=14pt] temple? No. The great crowd is going to be "in heaven". Revelation 19:1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Oh. but[/SIZE] couldn't the great crowd In heaven be a different great crowd than the great[SIZE=14pt] crowd of chapter 7 ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]1) Notice who is a part of the great crowd in chapter 7 and chapter 19. Chapter 19 - 24 elders, 4 beasts, servants, the bride or the saints, angels and an army (people).[/SIZE] Chapter 7 - people from around the earth who live during the great tribulation, angels, the elders, four beasts.

[SIZE=14pt]2)Notice[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] what the great crowd Is saying in chapter 7 mind chapter 19. Chapter 7 Salvation, glory, honor, power.[/SIZE] Chapter 19 -- salvation, glory, honor, power. 3) Notice what the great crowd Is wearing in chapter I and chapter 19. Chapter 7 - Vs. 9 white robes, vs. 13 white robes, vs. 13 white robes washed in the blood. Chapter 19 Verse 8 fine linen clean and white which is the righteousness of the saints, Verse 14 fine linen white and clean (the blood washing Is implied in verse 13 referring to the blood of Jesus)

[SIZE=14pt]The burden of proof is on the Watchtower to prove the great crowd-for some reason cannot go to heaven… What is this "proof "?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." Psalm 37:29. So will[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] the great crowd never go to heaven? Are not 144,000 righteous ?[/SIZE] Don’t they go to heaven ? Then we could say they don’t inherit the earth. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world !Then where is it until it comes to earth ?

[SIZE=14pt]But haven't you heard, "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Matthew 5:5. Are the meek, J.W.'s[/SIZE] who miss heaven? Then why aren't J.W.s "poor In spirit", verse 3, or "pure in heart!', verse 8, "persecuted for righteousness sake'. Verse 10 , or reviled, persecuted or spoken evil against falsely, verses 11-12? These go to heaven and see God!

[SIZE=14pt]Don't you think God-had—a purpose in creating this earth a paradise for man to dwell In[/SIZE]?

[SIZE=14pt]The inspired Scriptures declare "heaven" and "paradise" are synonymous a to[/SIZE] be used interchangeably since the resurrection of Christ. 11 Corinthians 12:2, 4. Is there really a verse of Scripture which reads, "paradise earth"? No

[SIZE=14pt]Someone inherits the "new Earth" somebody have[/SIZE] to be here to live on it?

[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 22:1. Indeed' But does God slam the door of heaven shut and say, "Now you will never leave here again?" No. "The gates of it shall not be shut at all," verse 25 explains. Those who claim to have an earthly hope also hope their names are written in the Lambs Book of Life. There is better news. Those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life will enter "it. Revelation 21:27. "It !'[/SIZE] In the context of the chapter refers to heavenly Jerusalem. Believers get BOTH the new heaven and the new earth in the salvation package! "It" comes down from heaven with God to earth at the end of the Millennium.

[SIZE=14pt]Aim the 144.000 rule as- kings and -priests over the earth, don't they have to have somebody to rule over ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Wrong question! The 144,000 rule "on" the earth.[/SIZE] Revelation 6:10. The New World Translation says "over" but the Greek says "upon". The Watchtower insists a resurrected and glorified body could not go to heaven, so it tries to keep the kings and priests above the earth as only spirit creatures. Living Christians at the end of the great tribulation will populate the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. Isn't It reasonable that the kings and priests will reign over them? Secondly, the 144,000 are never spoken of as being kings, priests or the bride of Christ In Revelation 7:3-8 or 14:1-6. They are a whole new group taken from Israel all at one time in the tribulation.

[SIZE=14pt]Didn't Jesus say He had other sheep of a different fold who would remain on the earth? John 10:16.1[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]No. Jesus was talking to Jews and introducing them to the world-wide evangelism of gentiles,who[/SIZE] are the other sheep. Jesus did NOT say they would remain separate. Quite the opposite! "There shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Not 2 folds, one in heaven and one on earth. Eph. 2 says he broke down the middle wall of partition making them one all the sheep are in 1 fold and have 1 shepherd, Not 2 shepherds (John 10:11) one In heaven and one on earth. To take this Scripture and still insist there will remain 2 folds is to distort and misrepresent the Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture! Ephesians 1:1 0.

[SIZE=14pt]Isn't[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] there an earthly hope for one group of Christians and a heavenly hope for a different[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] group![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]No. There is "one hope". Ephesians 4:4. The hope, or confidence, is to be wherever Jesus is. There Is[/SIZE] only one body. I Corinthians 12:12,13,27; Ephesians 4:1116; Colossians 1:6. Scripture emphasizes "heavenly places". Ephesians 2:6. We become like our heavenly Jesus. Philippians 3:20-21; 1 John 3:2. We go to a heavenly kingdom. 11 Timothy 4:18. We go to the Father's house and be with Jesus. Where is the Father? Heaven. John 14:1-3. Those who sleep in Jesus will come with Him. I Thessalonians 4-14. After our earthly body is gone we get an immortal body in heaven. I Corinthians 15:42-66; 11 Corinthians 5:1,6-9. If you have believed on Jesus through the testimony of the apostles, you will be with Jesus. John 17:20, 24. J.W’s teach people from five different areas were all destined for heaven. I Peter 1:1, 4. Conservatively speaking, 144,000 people were saved from Acts 2:41-6:7, before Judge Rutherford took- away the heavenly hope in the 1930's. Matthew 23:13. The church at Ephesus alone was estimated from 20,000 to 26,000 people! The church of Jerusalem was larger than that. History tells us in 70 AD over 100,000 Jews fled Jerusalem to Pela because they remembered Jesus words of Jerusalem surrounded by armies. We have is heavenly calling, our citizenship is in heaven. Heb.11:13 tells us all who die in faith (not some) were strangers and pilgrims on earth, vs.16 they desired a heavenly country of which God has prepared a city for them.

[SIZE=14pt]But believers -from before the time of Christ cannot go to heaven, so won't they be[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] resurrected to life on earth with the great crowd?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]No. Old Testament saints will be in "heaven"! Matthew 8:1 1; Job 19: 25-26; Psalm 23:6; 73:24-25. The Bible does not contradict itself. Abraham looked for a city made by God, was a stranger on earth, and goes to the heavenly city prepared by God, Heavenly Jerusalem! Hebrews 11:8-16; 12:22.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Are the 144,000 really the J.W. grandpas and grandmas who claim to be anointed?.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The 144,000 will be virgins, not grandparents. Revelation 14:1, 4.[/SIZE] They will be too busy serving God during the great tribulation to focus on watching out for the welfare of a family. The 144,000 will be sealed in the future after the 6th Seal, the Day of Wrath and the holding back of the four winds (Revelation 6:12,17; 7:1,3).

[SIZE=14pt]What nationality will these 144 000 be?,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]According to Scripture, Jewish.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Revelation 7:4. As the great crowd is from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, in contrast the 144,000 are sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, the twelve tribes([/SIZE]Revelation 7: 9,4). These are the same twelve tribes that come from Jacob. The 144,000 are not sealed to become Israelites, they are sealed OUT OF Israel to become members of the 144,000 Christian evangelists. In both Revelation 7 and 14, a clear distinction is made between the 144,000 sealed Israelites and "every nation." If we take "every nation" to be literal, we should also take "Israel" to be literal. For the Watchtower to go from literal to symbolic in the middle of a verse is complete Scripture twisting taking it out of the context it was written in. And how can anyone take 12 symbolic numbers, add them up and come up with a literal number of 144,000? If the Watchtower correctly says they aren't Jews, then why is the number of 144,000 literal? If they aren't Jews, then what is the long explanation of the tribes of Israel for? Rabbis, when asked if this is a literal list of the names of the tribes of Israel say it is authentic. The names vary in Scripture, due to serious sin and the loss of recognition of certain descendants of Jacob. The Jewish people were only laid aside temporarily so that Gentiles who are not of Israel can have salvation. In the future Romans 11:1 6-26 says all of Israel (the nation) will be saved. In contrast to the 144,000, the future kings are from every tribe, tongue, people and nation which happens to be from their great crowd. (Revelation 5:9-10).

[SIZE=14pt]Doesn't the Watchtower have the correct light on Scripture through the faithful and[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] discreet salve? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The Watchtower has serious problems trying to interpret Revelation. They published The Finished Mystery in 1917, Was[/SIZE] the mystery all over as they boasted? No. The latest book, Revelation - lts Grand Climax At Hand! is vastly different. The seven trumpets of Revelation lead from one trumpet into another according to Scripture. The order of the seven trumpets according to the Watchtower book is the 7, then 1,2,3,4,5,6. That’s no way to count to seven! God didn’t why do they ?

[SIZE=14pt]Is the great crowd really excluded from heaven? [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The Watchtower's, Vindication- book three, p. 204, makes it clear the great crowd is expected to go to heaven. Why? Ezekiel says so! "This picture shows the position of the 'great multitude'. Even and anon someone advances the conclusion that the 'great multitude' will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures." Was this message from the Watchtower light or darkness? Did the Watchtower have the light of God's truth? Proverbs 4:18. If not, how does Scripture describe the teachers who taught this darkness? Proverbs 4:19.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Why did Jesus say you MUST be born again to enter the kingdom of HEAVEN[/SIZE] ? [SIZE=14pt]John 3:3,6[/SIZE]. He didn't! He said you will not see or enter the kingdom of Godunless you are born again. You will not reside in any part of God's kingdom unless you have been born of the Spirit. If this provision is only for the 144,000 then all the J.W’s today, those part of the great crowd will not have the kingdom! However It is all inclusive. I John 5:1. If you have a kingdom message, its not suppose to be paradise earth but you MUST be born again into it.

Gods kingdom has a ruling king( govt like) this will be the only ruling power in existence at that point( Dan 2:44)---no matter where one stands--on earth, the moon, or in heaven, they will be before the throne( ruling power)--they will be in Gods kingdom. It will never end again. All issues raised against God are being proven false now--once and for all time.
Yes the anointed will be born again as spirits--the rest can be born again in the sense they strip off the old personality( worker of iniquity) and live by every utterance of God and live righteously now, with ones whole heart, soul, mind and strength--24/7. These have learned and applied all of Jesus' truths and live by them daily. Not these--Matt 7:22-23---these Matt 7:21--they do this-Matt 16:24.

 

[RANDOR]

Gods kingdom has a ruling king( govt like) this will be the only ruling power in existence at that point( Dan 2:44)---no matter where one stands--on earth, the moon, or in heaven, they will be before the throne( ruling power)--they will be in Gods kingdom. It will never end again. All issues raised against God are being proven false now--once and for all time.
Yes the anointed will be born again as spirits--the rest can be born again in the sense they strip off the old personality( worker of iniquity) and live by every utterance of God and live righteously now, with ones whole heart, soul, mind and strength--24/7. These have learned and applied all of Jesus' truths and live by them daily. Not these--Matt 7:22-23---these Matt 7:21--they do this-Matt 16:24.

Like I've been saying...........you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus that's why He said depart from me I never knew you.
It goes back to the Burt Reynolds thing we have discussed.
It's asking Jesus to come into your heart.
Very simple, very easy, thats all required.
if you have a son....and I didn't like the your son as much as you do..........would you like me......doubt it.

 

[kjw47]

Like I've been saying...........you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus that's why He said depart from me I never knew you.
It goes back to the Burt Reynolds thing we have discussed.
It's asking Jesus to come into your heart.
Very simple, very easy, thats all required.
if you have a son....and I didn't like the your son as much as you do..........would you like me......doubt it.

No where in Matt 7:21-23 does a personal relationship with Jesus account for anything.
Jesus taught---proof of ones love for him was---listening to him---this requires---learning all of his truths and applying all of his truths.

 

[RANDOR]

No where in Matt 7:21-23 does a personal relationship with Jesus account for anything.
Jesus taught---proof of ones love for him was---listening to him---this requires---learning all of his truths and applying all of his truths.

You are absolutley correct it does not.
You can listen to Him all you want in the scriptures...but that doesn't make you a Forgiven.
You must ask Him personally to be forgiven....you...not you and your friends and wife, children nor some teacher.
That is a personal relationship with Christ....and without that relationship....that's where the depart from me thing comes in :)

 

[kjw47]

You are absolutley correct it does not.
You can listen to Him all you want in the scriptures...but that doesn't make you a Forgiven.
You must ask Him personally to be forgiven....you...not you and your friends and wife, children nor some teacher.
That is a personal relationship with Christ....and without that relationship....that's where the depart from me thing comes in :)

Jesus taught to ask his Father for forgiveness--his Father is the hearer of prayers--no one else.
No the depart from me is for 2 reasons Jesus shows---1) they didn't live now to do the Fathers will( even though they did the powerful things mentioned)--- They were workers of iniquity( a practicer of sin)

 

[RANDOR]

Jesus taught to ask his Father for forgiveness--his Father is the hearer of prayers--no one else.
No the depart from me is for 2 reasons Jesus shows---1) they didn't live now to do the Fathers will( even though they did the powerful things mentioned)--- They were workers of iniquity( a practicer of sin)

So if we pray...In Jesus name we pray, Amen!
You say that is praying to satan or we are practicing sin.
I see you are still learning from men....mere men.
Ya really need to go to Jesus and the Holy Spirit and ask Him to teach you.

I certainly wouldn't put my last breath on the line for some man telling me about God.

I would go straight to the source....and that source died for you so you could.
And that also goes hand in hand with our proud military which provides you the freedom to choose what you want to believe in.
And think about it for a few seconds.....If you hadn't had some other jw tell you about this so called god, you would of never come to of known it.

I didn't have to have another Christian tell me about God/Holy Spirit/Jesus
I went straight to Jesus

Same is true if you have a problem at a store.......forget the little guy...go straight to the top ;)

You really need to go to Jesus....and make sure you have been taught right all these years..or you have been snooogled.
It's better late than never.
PRAISE THE LORD †

 

[kjw47]

So if we pray...In Jesus name we pray, Amen!
You say that is praying to satan or we are practicing sin.
I see you are still learning from men....mere men.
Ya really need to go to Jesus and the Holy Spirit and ask Him to teach you.

I certainly wouldn't put my last breath on the line for some man telling me about God.

I would go straight to the source....and that source died for you so you could.
And that also goes hand in hand with our proud military which provides you the freedom to choose what you want to believe in.
And think about it for a few seconds.....If you hadn't had some other jw tell you about this so called god, you would of never come to of known it.

I didn't have to have another Christian tell me about God/Holy Spirit/Jesus
I went straight to Jesus

Same is true if you have a problem at a store.......forget the little guy...go straight to the top ;)

You really need to go to Jesus....and make sure you have been taught right all these years..or you have been snooogled.
It's better late than never.
PRAISE THE LORD †

Praying in Jesus' name is right, praying to the Father. Jesus taught no one gets to the Father except through him-- Its the Father one needs to be talking to in prayer in accordance to his will as Jesus taught in the Lords prayer. Everything Jesus did he did for the Fathers will. So does and will all true followers. Yes go straight to the top--The Father YHWH(Jehovah)--through Jesus name.
Then this becomes a reality--- The Father is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and truth.

 

[RANDOR]

That sounded pretty good there :)