NO MORE WORKS

[Doug]

Jesus Christ answers this question about works with his own words, though there are good scripture to posted here to support Jesus' words, best to ask the High Priest himself the answer.

Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matthew 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Matthew 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

Matthew 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matthew 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Matthew 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now the point of the parable is very simple, Jesus left this world when he died and rose from the dead, but there is still work to do as the Christian faith needed to be spread and the good news preached to all the world. So he left Christian workmen to finish his works he started when he was alive some God gives many works (5 talents) because they can handle it, others God gives few works (2 talents) because that is all they can handle, then others God gives very few works (1 talent) because they do not have a very strong faith but he wants to give them a chance to prove themselves. Those strong in their faith will use their spiritual gifts to do works equal to the gifts and found worthy to enter Heaven because they stayed true to God, while others "buried" their gifts and never used them to do works so when they stand before God the "unprofitable servant" will be crying as he is sent to hell.

Works is not about earning Heaven, as was stated by many in this thread, it is about not being ashamed of Jesus Christ and God the Father. If you see a Christian falling off the path and starting to be taken by satan, you can help them showing you are not ashamed of Jesus or God and showing that you have a good heart that will not stand to see a soul being killed by satan when you had a chance to save it. The other choice is you can keep walking to let their soul be killed by satan as he damns them to hell, because you are ashamed of being a Christian so want to put your "candle under a basket" or you have an evil heart and do not care that person's soul will die.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Your application is very good
Technically, the parable was for Israel, to prepare and educate them about being fit to enter the kingdom of heaven, wherein they will reign on the earth.

 

[Mal'ak]

Your application is very good
Technically, the parable was for Israel, to prepare and educate them about being fit to enter the kingdom of heaven, wherein they will reign on the earth.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That is completely true, because Jesus came first to the chosen of Israel to show them the way to Heaven. 100% correct on your part.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But after Jesus died and returned, he gave as his last commandment to the disciples that they should take what they learned from him in their ministry to Israel and share it to all nations in his name. This was part of the "adoption" of Christ, that his blood and his new covenant opened the gentiles to become Israel even though they were not blood linage. As verse 8 says "they which are the children of flesh (Israel), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (Christians) are counted for the seed (of Isaac)".

 

[Nancy]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That is completely true, because Jesus came first to the chosen of Israel to show them the way to Heaven. 100% correct on your part.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But after Jesus died and returned, he gave as his last commandment to the disciples that they should take what they learned from him in their ministry to Israel and share it to all nations in his name. This was part of the "adoption" of Christ, that his blood and his new covenant opened the gentiles to become Israel even though they were not blood linage. As verse 8 says "they which are the children of flesh (Israel), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (Christians) are counted for the seed (of Isaac)".

Welcome to the forum, @Mal'ak

 

[LoveBeacon]

We, through the power of the Holy Ghost in us, are able to overcome the world. If we do not do it, then we will follow the lead of that world's attraction back into sin and death. Most churches and/or their leaders teach people to quench the Holy Spirit in them. Thus we see where the Apostle warns us here:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

It is by the Holy Spirit that we kill the "old man" of us and bring to Life the "new man" of us. John the Baptist said it this way:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

The "new man" up and the "old man" down.

When we quench the Holy Spirit in us then we make ourselves fall back on our own resources, on our own strength and that cannot work. If it could then it would have been unnecessary for God to send His Son.

What happens in churches is they follow the lead of men who are not following Jesus even though they may at time mouth the right words. Follow me they effectively say and then enforce by causing or requiring everyone in attendance to speak or act only according the established rules of etiquette of that assembly or organization or man... instead of the Holy Spirit in them. There are lots of dead churches. How many Live ones do we encounter?

How do we overcome? By surrendering to God.

Impossible?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

So then if we ask God for His help and we surrender ourselves completely to Him will He not help us?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

I agree. Just to elaborate and delve a little deeper: The job of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of what Jesus taught us to do during His 3 year ministry (John 14:26). Churches everywhere has universally rejected all of what Jesus taught, and yet claim to be a spirit-filled church. It is amazing to me the disconnesct between following Jesus teachings, and churches thinking that we don't need to do that.

It is as you said, there are dead churches only following man and their traditions.

The world needs a true spiritual revival of people willing to follow the Lamb (Jesus) wherever He goes, and let His spirit (Jesus' teachings) guide us the whole way.
In peace

 

[LoveBeacon]

i guess that is what they are trying to say, ya.
It's complete crap of course, but you won't get anyone in that camp to seriously engage with you on it anyway. They will all turn into the Dodge Boys when you try lol. Best of luck tho

Your reply made me laugh because of the truth in it.
I at least take comfort in knowing that you can see that is the logical explanation to anyone that believes in such a doctrine. It is as the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 4:4, "The devil has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so the glorious good news of the kingdom won't shine through."

Who can be sent to a blinded world and share the true gospel?

Where are the Isaiah's who are willing to say, "Here I am, Send me!" ?

In peace

 

[LoveBeacon]

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

Christ died for all our sins

This sounds nice and all... but, you didn't answer my question. I'll post it again below:
How does God know that someone believes what you quoted above? You said we don't have to do ANYTHING to receive God's grace, then that means everybody (pagans, satanists, homosexuals) are all saved because what Jesus did on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world. Is this what you believe?

 

[mjrhealth]

This sounds nice and all... but, you didn't answer my question. I'll post it again below:
How does God know that someone believes what you quoted above? You said we don't have to do ANYTHING to receive God's grace, then that means everybody (pagans, satanists, homosexuals) are all saved because what Jesus did on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world. Is this what you believe?

Far easier to say, all "sinners", of the world, sins death is the reward for all sin.

 

[LoveBeacon]

Also consider 2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

God knows how to deliver and to reserve... delivers some but actually works the same power in ‘reserve’ which is purposely ‘to keep in place’ ...as in they have no power against God’s will to be ‘reserved’.

I’m sorry. I’m sure that probably makes it even worse. All I can encourage is to read all the verses and seek ...who is God? Is He love and fairness and not a respector of persons, or not? It is hard questions but GOD asks us, the vessels of mercy to do in return for receiving mercy and forgiveness...give what you have received so that the world may see you are the Children of God and that I sent you.

Luke 11:2-4
[2] And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. [3] Give us day by day our daily bread. [4] And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

You are correct, it does make things more confusing, at least to what position you are actually saying. I appreciate how you are coming across in a more conversational type manner, rather than a self-righteous, "I am correct you are wrong manner." That is difficult to find now-a-days.

I personally believe that God doesn't purposely causes people to be a part of the 'reserved' class just for the fun of it (which seems to be the implication, though I am exaggerating a bit by saying 'fun of it'). I can relate this to Pharaoh and what happened in Egypt. It says during the first 3 plaques that Pharaoh hardened his heart to God (Exodus 8), but after that, then God hardened Pharoah's heart (Exodus 9:12). It seems that God gave Pharaoh a chance to repent, but after the third strike, God allowed Pharaoh to be fully consumed and even helped with the process. This way of viewing your scripture I would say is more accurate, because it correlates well with the fact that God is a loving God that doesn't have respects of persons, rather people's eternal destiny are dependent on whether or not they follow God, and not because God picks and chooses who are saved.

Your last point is important to consider and see just how deep it goes. For me, it seems to be saying that everyone who forgives little, will receive little forgiveness. Those who forgive much, will receive much forgiveness. This is totally contrary to the belief that we don't have to do anything to deserve God's forgiveness of our sins. It seems pretty clear from this scripture that God does require us to forgive others in order to receive forgiveness from our sins.

In peace

 

[Doug]

God knows our hearts so He knows when we believe.

There is no sin that Christ did not atone for. All who believe the gospel are saved. How we live after salvation has consequences in this life and loss of reward in the next. Grace does not teach us to live ungodly in this world.

 

[amadeus]

I agree. Just to elaborate and delve a little deeper: The job of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of what Jesus taught us to do during His 3 year ministry (John 14:26). Churches everywhere has universally rejected all of what Jesus taught, and yet claim to be a spirit-filled church. It is amazing to me the disconnesct between following Jesus teachings, and churches thinking that we don't need to do that.

It is as you said, there are dead churches only following man and their traditions.

The world needs a true spiritual revival of people willing to follow the Lamb (Jesus) wherever He goes, and let His spirit (Jesus' teachings) guide us the whole way.
In peace

People are afraid to let go and live by faith in God. They have formed habits by which they trust in doctors, medicine, science, lawyers, governments of men, etc. If it were only a few members of congregations doing this they would or should still receive reminders or teachings to direct them toward a better way. Unfortunately many or even most of those in a teacher's role are doing the same thing themselves not teaching the truth in this by either by words or example.

Too often what is taught or practiced is worse than no teaching at all.

 

[LoveBeacon]

People are afraid to let go and live by faith in God. They have formed habits by which they trust in doctors, medicine, science, lawyers, governments of men, etc. If it were only a few members of congregations doing this they would or should still receive reminders or teachings to direct them toward a better way. Unfortunately many or even most of those in a teacher's role are doing the same thing themselves not teaching the truth in this by either by words or example.

Too often what is taught or practiced is worse than no teaching at all.

Doesn't this realization start a fire burning inside you? A fire that wants to go and spread the truth among all the lies in this world?

I am not sure, but I believe that God is starting to do something that will shake the foundations of this Earth. It is as if God is calling those that want to put Him above everything else together...

Anyways, I will continue waiting on God and seeing what He wants me to do, and see how things unfold.

In peace

 

[LoveBeacon]

God knows our hearts so He knows when we believe.

There is no sin that Christ did not atone for. All who believe the gospel are saved. How we live after salvation has consequences in this life and loss of reward in the next. Grace does not teach us to live ungodly in this world.

Have you considered the loss of rewards you are referring to could be losing our eternal salvation?

In peace

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you considered the loss of rewards you are referring to could be losing our eternal salvation?

In peace

wadr once the "our" is lost, the "eternal salvation" which is really believer-speak for "immortal life, after I have died" or "death more abundantly" also goes away. "Pluck your eye out" would be one way to express this; "change your mind" would be another I guess.

Obv on some level it should be apparent that the "I" we create when we found the world is the part of us that is separate from God, and certainly will never become immortal?

 

[amadeus]

Doesn't this realization start a fire burning inside you? A fire that wants to go and spread the truth among all the lies in this world?

I am not sure, but I believe that God is starting to do something that will shake the foundations of this Earth. It is as if God is calling those that want to put Him above everything else together...

Anyways, I will continue waiting on God and seeing what He wants me to do, and see how things unfold.

In peace

I had been trying hard where I attended for so long because it was allowed by the pastor. He's 93. He was forced to leave as pastor displaced by others at the end of this past October and I had to leave as well. They shut me up... Since then I have been looking as God leads me to different places, but most places are quite programmed and unwilling to allow such as me to open their mouths. But... God is not finished with me yet.
If I stand with Him, likely He will be opening some other doors. Some people are still hungry and thirsty for His righteousness. He needs someone to help fill them.

Give God the glory!

 

[Doug]

Have you considered the loss of rewards you are referring to could be losing our eternal salvation?

In peace

When we believe the gospel, that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again we have eternal life. We can not lose it because it is not based on what we do, but what Christ has done in providing a complete salvation by his blood sacrifice, his propitiation and redemption.

See 2 Timothy 1:1 the promise of life
1 Timothy 1:16 life everlasting
Titus 3:5 not by works
Romans 3:10 none righteous
Romans 3:22 righteousness of God
Romans 3:24 3:25 3:26 justified freely

 

[bbyrd009]

No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die

There is only One Immortal, Who dwells in unapproachable light

No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it, the Son of Man

Under the Law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

oh ya, and

work while it is day; the night comes, when no one can work

 

[bbyrd009]

"eternal" = "aeon" = "an age" = "not immortal"

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There is only One Immortal, Who dwells in unapproachable light

I realize we have discussed this before in the past. Laying aside immortality for a moment, I ask about the reference you make often to the One who dwells alone in the ‘unapproachable light’. Is not that ‘unapproach light’, now approachable through the Son?

 

[bbyrd009]

I realize we have discussed this before in the past. Laying aside immortality for a moment, I ask about the reference you make often to the One who dwells alone in the ‘unapproachable light’. Is not that ‘unapproach light’, now approachable through the Son?

boy, my guess would be "no," and a diff...symbol, meaning, should be applied to the "unapproachable light," but i'd have to read more. As of now I associate that with the pov of heaven in "No one has ever gone up to heaven…" but that might be incomplete too

 

[VictoryinJesus]

boy, my guess would be "no," and a diff...symbol, meaning, should be applied to the "unapproachable light," but i'd have to read more. As of now I associate that with the pov of heaven in "No one has ever gone up to heaven…" but that might be incomplete too

John 14:3-4
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. [4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.