NO MORE WORKS

[Waiting on him]

True. Do we know them by their fruits?

Psalm 12:1-4
[1] Help, Lord ; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men. [2] They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. [3] The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: [4] Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

There is the question: no more works for us but should God be seen? Or do we continue the same way in faith?

Galatians 2:20 KJV
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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[Waiting on him]

How can one believe unless one hear, and how can hear without a preacher.

one work because thay are saved, not to work to be saved.

PICJAG.

One can’t hear until God chooses to give him an ear

 

[bbyrd009]

To be honest, sometimes I hesitate in even mentioning the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to you because you bring up the idolotry of worshiping the serpent on a pole. So I wonder if you reject it entirely.

hmm well Christ died for my sins, but see how that may be understood in more than one way. Or bam address "No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." and the other...less popular vv I repeat as you will, to your satisfaction. "Worship" also has more than one def I guess, and this should also be examined maybe. It ends up being another English word that maybe doesn't fit so well, like "Lord." But we have become convinced via simple repetition that these are the only acceptable terms and definitions; we, the same ones who now sing "When we all get to heaven."

So I guess the best way I could reply is to say that you can pursue Life more abundantly or Death More Abundantly, but imo you cannot practically do both

at the same time I’m stuck in ...”...so what now. Are you there?

well I have been, sure. But...there are no works you can do, or, um, ha, I value those moments now, doing nothing is a hard thing to do, huh?

Where do I go from here?

man, it's hard for me to say anything of value here, when "where/how do I stop from here?" might be a more pertinent Q lol. But this "I'm stuck in 'so what now?'" suggests to me that "so what now?" is not a comfortable place for you at the moment, when it is where everything happens for me now, but I doubt I could coerce you into a featureless cave for a week's fasting, to meet your monster so to speak, but I guess the principle of "fasting" is the answer to this. Sensory deprivation is quicker, fwiw. You are going for the loss of like "personal identity" here, imo, at least I think that is the point. l was lucky, spent some time in solitary confinement and had no choice, that or go nuts, but how one might do that voluntarily i'm not sure. Note that no matter how hard you resist, you "are" somewhere right now, and you are doing something right now, right. Try not doing those things, as hard as you can, and see what happens maybe. The point is to identify this "I" and...come to terms with it imo, this thing that you made to cope with the world. Unfort the Bible is light on the mechanics there, "pluck your eye out" and a few other hints, but imo one might do this any number of ways...pretty much all "Eastern" to us I guess

 

[101G]

One can’t hear until God chooses to give him an ear

Isaiah 55:1 "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe we were just discussing as to why we cannot see/approach/face to face- in the flesh, The Creator, and not die on the spot?? At least that's what I thought ♥
I say it's just because flesh and blood cannot enter His Kingdom. Can it be that sin and flesh are forever intertwined? Hence - new/glorious "bodies"?

imo "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom" is a dialectic statement that really means "flesh and blood thinking/spirit cannot enter," said so as to hide truth from the wise iow, or let the death more abundantly believers maintain their illusions. Flesh and blood are also the only things that can inherit iow

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 55:1 "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

PICJAG.

I hear

 

[VictoryinJesus]

hmm well Christ died for my sins, but see how that may be understood in more than one way. Or bam address "No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." and the other...less popular vv I repeat as you will, to your satisfaction. "Worship" also has more than one def I guess, and this should also be examined maybe. It ends up being another English word that maybe doesn't fit so well, like "Lord." But we have become convinced via simple repetition that these are the only acceptable terms and definitions; we, the same ones who now sing "When we all get to heaven."

So I guess the best way I could reply is to say that you can pursue Life more abundantly or Death More Abundantly, but imo you cannot practically do both
well I have been, sure. But...there are no works you can do, or, um, ha, I value those moments now, doing nothing is a hard thing to do, huh?
man, it's hard for me to say anything of value here, when "where/how do I stop from here?" might be a more pertinent Q lol. But this "I'm stuck in 'so what now?'" suggests to me that "so what now?" is not a comfortable place for you at the moment, when it is where everything happens for me now, but I doubt I could coerce you into a featureless cave for a week's fasting, to meet your monster so to speak, but I guess the principle of "fasting" is the answer to this. Sensory deprivation is quicker, fwiw. You are going for the loss of like "personal identity" here, imo, at least I think that is the point. l was lucky, spent some time in solitary confinement and had no choice, that or go nuts, but how one might do that voluntarily i'm not sure. Note that no matter how hard you resist, you "are" somewhere right now, and you are doing something right now, right. Try not doing those things, as hard as you can, and see what happens maybe. The point is to identify this "I" and...come to terms with it imo, this thing that you made to cope with the world. Unfort the Bible is light on the mechanics there, "pluck your eye out" and a few other hints, but imo one might do this any number of ways...pretty much all "Eastern" to us I guess

John 14:27
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

peace...not as the world giveth.
Also consider “life more abundantly” ...not as the world giveth. The perspective changes even to ‘peace in the midst of a storm.’ In Christ.

49 years of ...as the world giveth. A whole lot of mess. I watch my grandchildren and what the world is already writing on their blank slates ...

 

[Jun2u]

Waiting on him said:
One can’t hear until God chooses to give him an ear

Isaiah 55:1 "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

PICJAG.

Isaiah 55:1 and John 3:16 is NOT the answer to the statement “Waiting on him” stated.

The answer you should have given is:

Romans 10:17

“So then faith cometh by HEARING, and HEARING by the word of God.”

To God Be The Glory

 

[Nancy]

"

imo "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom" is a dialectic statement that really means "flesh and blood thinking/spirit cannot enter," said so as to hide truth from the wise iow, or let the death more abundantly believers maintain their illusions. Flesh and blood are also the only things that can inherit iow

"Flesh and blood are also the only things that can inherit iow"
Okay, then what about 1 Cor.15:50? "I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
And, I can't see how "flesh and blood" cannot enter the Kingdom" is a dialectic statement, I've seen "flesh and blood" used in the same vein as "fallen man", but can't see how they oppose one another? I am confusing myself LOL. Also, what do you mean by "flesh and blood thinking/spirit"? Will our spirits not be able to think?

 

[Nancy]

Romans 5:
1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph.2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Amen! Don't you just love the simplicity @Grams! ♥

 

[Butterfly]

To be honest, sometimes I hesitate in even mentioning the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to you because you bring up the idolotry of worshiping the serpent on a pole. So I wonder if you reject it entirely. It is none of my business for sure. It just sometimes makes conversation difficult and slippery. I don’t want to be a hypocrite either. Some days I’m certain I’ve been born again of Spirit...other days not so much which I guess could mean I’m double-minded. Don’t want to be that either. I pray for Him to help me and I believe He can. Sometimes I feel like walking away from it all, but then can relate to the disciples who said “where would we go?” Nothing in the world satisfies or holds any appeal anymore...except the people. My life is nothing like it was before Him. I don’t even recognize the girl I once was...it is like she literally died, but then, at the same time I’m stuck in ...”...so what now. Are you there? Where do I go from here?”

I have felt that way at times, I think there are seasons within our Christian lives- I have found when I am ' in doubting mode ' I ask more questions - so in essence I am seeking to know more. The very fact that you do not recognise the girl you use to be relays to me that God has done a mighty work , and will continue to do so. I get how you feel about the world not satisfying you anymore - I am at that point as well, but equally I am in limbo as I endeavour to find my purpose. Part of that is age on my part - reaching 60 last year has brought about different questioning as, for some unknown reason my fears and concerns have changed -sorry didn't mean to hyjack your conversation X
Rita

 

[farouk]

I have felt that way at times, I think there are seasons within our Christian lives- I have found when I am ' in doubting mode ' I ask more questions - so in essence I am seeking to know more. The very fact that you do not recognise the girl you use to be relays to me that God has done a mighty work , and will continue to do so. I get how you feel about the world not satisfying you anymore - I am at that point as well, but equally I am in limbo as I endeavour to find my purpose. Part of that is age on my part - reaching 60 last year has brought about different questioning as, for some unknown reason my fears and concerns have changed -sorry didn't mean to hyjack your conversation X
Rita

Hebrews 11 is a great tonic for the believer: 'By faith...by faith...by faith...(etc.)

 

[quietthinker]

I notice you didn't answer my question Doug. Here it is again from post #30

What is it that you don't like about works?

 

[bbyrd009]

John 14:27
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

peace...not as the world giveth.

the ability to sit and be happy with nothing cannot be bought, and practically speaking cannot be taught, either I guess. I came by a diff route, but imo yoga seems to work for many. Yoga is or was pretty universally condemned in Christian circles when I revolved in them, not sure about now though.

"Let not your heart be troubled" can however be attempted by anyone reading this without calling it "yoga" if one prefers; most will fail miserably at first, but imo don't get discouraged, and don't try this during a fast I guess at first, but one could find a comfy position in a say as unstimulating a room as possible, at first, with a full stomach even, just sit there and "audit" the thoughts/feelings/desires/complaints that arise, without acting on them.

the initial results compared to later if you stick with it are more or less comical, many or even most ppl can do less than like 10 minutes before some thought gets control of them, and they just have to go do...something. If I told you some of the (wild-eyed) comments I remember in these situations you would not believe me; "I have to go put air in my tires" being one that comes to mind. And i'm talking about serious seekers who knew beforehand what the exercise was about.

short answer is that most ppl reading this physically could not sit comfortably in a situation with no stimulation for as long as an infant could rest after a meal and a diaper change, which isn't long.

Anyone trying to teach you Christ's peace, or advertising that they have it--which they don't, btw, by definition--imo be aware of how much they value Nothing. Bc Peace is not an addition, or an accessory, or something to be "gotten" in the way we usually understand that.

 

[bbyrd009]

"

"Flesh and blood are also the only things that can inherit iow"
Okay, then what about 1 Cor.15:50? "I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
And, I can't see how "flesh and blood" cannot enter the Kingdom" is a dialectic statement, I've seen "flesh and blood" used in the same vein as "fallen man", but can't see how they oppose one another?

Well, you might note that "the kingdom is within you" while you are still flesh and blood, right, so imo I would see that ambiguous statements are being made so as to allow the Bible to remain a mirror, so that the blind can stay blind and justify Death More Abundantly to themselves--which maybe sounds nefarious or evil, but really is by way of letting them have it their way, see, we all find what we seek?

And despite the multitude of True Believers' professions to the contrary, imo God does not put thoughts in our heads, or direct our desires or "what we seek" in any manner whatsoever; porn was still a draw after I got "saved," money was, drugs were, etc.

I am confusing myself LOL.

ah, a good sign imo;
"God is our judge"
"God is not our judge"

see, both of these can be Quoted; which one is true? How can both be true?

Also, what do you mean by "flesh and blood thinking/spirit"? Will our spirits not be able to think?

well, carnal or self-centered thinking I guess? The same reason most ppl are initially attracted to "church?" To "save themselves," right. Not to put too fine a point on it and scare ppl off, I mean that's me too.

But obv after one has "changed their minds" they are still um corporeal, right, still flesh and blood?

as to whether or not our spirits will be able to think; go into a room and manifest a spirit--a room full of kids is a reliable guide to which spirit you are manifesting I guess huh--and then ask the spirit what it thinks!

 

[Helen]

"eternal" = "aeon" = "an age" = "not immortal"

I wish that I had kept the study I did years ago on Eternal, Everlasting, Forever, aeons, ages... Then I could post with more confidence...most people only parrot what they have been 'told' and presume is right about these words!

The threat so glibly thrown out about 'endless torment' for being one

 

[Waiting on him]

I wish that I had kept the study I did years ago on Eternal, Everlasting, Forever, aeons, ages... Then I could post with more confidence...most people only parrot what they have been 'told' and presume is right about these words!

The threat so glibly thrown out about 'endless torment' for being one

Mrs Waiting has made this clear to me.

Mark 2:19-20 KJV
[19] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. [20] But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

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Isaiah 58:4-10 KJV
[4] Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. [5] Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him ? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord ? [6] Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? [7] Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? [8] Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rereward. [9] Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am . If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; [10] And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:

Tecarta Bible PremiumThe latter part is the works he requires. To expound the word of God,to present the righteousness of Christ to those who are naked,to set free the poor that are under the yoke of bondage etc,etc. these are the works Christ accomplished. We are to follow is image, and this can only be accomplished through him.

 

[Nancy]

the ability to sit and be happy with nothing cannot be bought, and practically speaking cannot be taught, either I guess. I came by a diff route, but imo yoga seems to work for many. Yoga is or was pretty universally condemned in Christian circles when I revolved in them, not sure about now though.

"Let not your heart be troubled" can however be attempted by anyone reading this without calling it "yoga" if one prefers; most will fail miserably at first, but imo don't get discouraged, and don't try this during a fast I guess at first, but one could find a comfy position in a say as unstimulating a room as possible, at first, with a full stomach even, just sit there and "audit" the thoughts/feelings/desires/complaints that arise, without acting on them.

the initial results compared to later if you stick with it are more or less comical, many or even most ppl can do less than like 10 minutes before some thought gets control of them, and they just have to go do...something. If I told you some of the (wild-eyed) comments I remember in these situations you would not believe me; "I have to go put air in my tires" being one that comes to mind. And i'm talking about serious seekers who knew beforehand what the exercise was about.

short answer is that most ppl reading this physically could not sit comfortably in a situation with no stimulation for as long as an infant could rest after a meal and a diaper change, which isn't long.

Anyone trying to teach you Christ's peace, or advertising that they have it--which they don't, btw, by definition--imo be aware of how much they value Nothing. Bc Peace is not an addition, or an accessory, or something to be "gotten" in the way we usually understand that.

Be careful here Mark: "Anyone trying to teach you Christ's peace, or advertising that they have it--which they don't, btw"
Only after a good 25 years of wondering just were in tarnation WAS that "Peace that surpasses all understanding", have I come to see it clearly, and experience it in my life.
I no longer worry about anything out of my control or anything where I "see" no way out of. His ways and timing are so very perfect, and His peace is a large part of my joy, if not all!
Just sayin ♥

 

[Waiting on him]

Be careful here Mark: "Anyone trying to teach you Christ's peace, or advertising that they have it--which they don't, btw"
Only after a good 25 years of wondering just were in tarnation WAS that "Peace that surpasses all understanding", have I come to see it clearly, and experience it in my life.
I no longer worry about anything out of my control or anything where I "see" no way out of. His ways and timing are so very perfect, and His peace is a large part of my joy, if not all!
Just sayin ♥

This peace is rest. But in this world your gonna see tribulation

 

[Waiting on him]

When I colabor with him it’s no burden.