No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

[mjrhealth]

I won't discuss because I'm not convinced from where it came. At this point, I accept the wisdom that was given to me, as truth, but I need to develop it further in order to convince others.
But again, my point is that I'm not 100% convinced, therefore, I remain silent.

And why do you need to convince anyone, that is not your Job, one sows one waters one reaps.

My sheep hear my voice and they know me, and I know them.

 

[amadeus]

@DNB

amadeus said: ↑
Do you really believe that real men of God, men who are really seeking Him and putting Him first are supposed to know the answers to all of your questions? Do you really believe that the solutions to the doctrinal differences between people will solve the problems that men have when it comes to serving God? If you really need answers, ask of God! You seemingly know more about what you want that what you need!

DNB said:
I simply used that as an example to prove whether or not they had such a relationship or inspiration from God. I'm not saying that it's my primary focus, which it is at times, but rather, that they wouldn't even be on this forum if they had all the answers, ...which is what visions from God implies in a way. One wants to show everyone how close that they are to God, by divulging their visions and dreams, then they better be prepared to assist others with their divine relationship. I was challenging their claims, by addressing the implications behind them.

Who was Nebuchadnezzar supposed to assist with his dreams? Who was Pharaoh supposed to assist with his dreams? Then again Joseph had dreams from God and he eventually learn to follow God, but when he had most of the dreams, was he not still a spoiled child with no real understanding of just what those dreams meant.

Maybe some people really want to impress others with their dreams. That seemed to be the case with young Joseph, but that did not change the reality of the messages, did it?

Why do you presume that anyone telling about their dreams or visions from or their experiences with God are want to show off how close they are to God? Certainly people may do this, like Joseph, but should we treat them as Joseph was treated by his brothers?

Joseph's brothers challenged the implications of his dreams as well. Spoiled and proud he may have been but that does not make his brother right in their course of action. If the ones here you question look to you a bit like Joseph, do you look to anyone just a bit like his brothers?

 

[ScottA]

The apostles proved their inspiration with incredible wisdom and signs, no comparison to what I'm hearing from anyone on this site. This is almost the entirety of my position. That is, like I've said continuously, until I see such wisdom, power and glory from God, I will remain skeptical, ...to the point of rebuking.

You are being selective...but it makes a good example of your complete error:

By naming the apostles as having "proved their inspiration", but leaving out the multitudes present on the day of Pentecost, you show yourself to be like those "mocking" who said, “They are full of new wine.”...because, having read of their error you now say much the same thing about anyone who may have been inspired also according to the prophecy of Joel.

Your skepticism is not proof, nor is that the test.

 

[DNB]

And, yes, again you show yourself and your lack of knowledge.

What I quoted is only said of God who is eternal...duh, "forever" means eternal.

Forever in that context does not meant eternal, Scott????
For all Christians will live forever, as much as the rejected will die forever (annihilation or eternal torment).
The Hebrew's author was referring to Jesus in his exalted state, after his ascension, thus, he has already made the grade, therefore his current status with God will remain forever. And, that his disposition towards us will never change, and that he will always and forever, remain faithful to those who pray in his name.

 

[amadeus]

Yes, ....but, they are definitely deterred by nonsense.

Perhaps, but why do you presume that what you consider to be nonsense would necessarily considered as nonsense to the hearers or to God?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes, because after the fact, we understand the purpose and full meaning. It didn't leave any Christian guessing as to its meaning and significance, the way people's dreams today are doing.


All as in Christians, not the secular world, those who accept the occurrence as fact.


Because that's about as much insight and wisdom that they've offered. Have you not heard yourself the testimony of Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, etc... that claim that God speaks to them, and how they know in their heart that the Book of Mormon is truth, or the Koran. Or, how with tears in their eyes, they claim that God gave them a vision. This is fantasizing, which is equally committed by the main stream Christians too, like on this site.
Have you not read some of the Biblical interpretations on this site, and how unsound that they are? How often these dreams and visions come from the same people. I'm not trying to disparage, but you must've done a head-turn once or twice so far, on this forum? Again, this is fantasizing.

No, I'm making God proud by rejecting nonsense, and affirming that it did not come from him. Whereas, show me the wisdom, and I'll be the first to say, bless you, in my opinion, that was inspired from God.
And yes, as a Christian I have a right to judge and discern bad inspiration and frivolity, from sound interpretation. In other words, I have always pointed out the error, whereas others just keep shouting 'lack of faith' or 'why not'. They incriminate themselves profoundly. You should be able to recognize the difference?

I simply used that as an example to prove whether or not they had such a relationship or inspiration from God. I'm not saying that it's my primary focus, which it is at times, but rather, that they wouldn't even be on this forum if they had all the answers, ...which is what visions from God implies in a way. One wants to show everyone how close that they are to God, by divulging their visions and dreams, then they better be prepared to assist others with their divine relationship. I was challenging their claims, by addressing the implications behind them.

Don't call other people's relationships with divinity to be "fantasies" unless you're willing to also have your relationship with divinity called a "fantasy".

We are called to walk with God, each person discerning right from wrong with Him. But not to pretend we understand another person's walk with Him or their Judge-- that's God's role.

 

[DNB]

@DNB






Why do you lump all the members of those groups into the same rotten basket? Who was the prophet Balaam that God talked with him? He missed the way himself, but did he not hear from God and he did not speak what God told him to speak to Balak?

Who was the unnamed prophet of God sent from Judah to the first king of the northern 10 tribes to prophesy? He did prophesy and his prophecy came true 350 years later in the reign of Josiah... yet the prophet himself disobeyed God and was slain by a lion on his way home.
All of these OT event really tell us some things if we are listening God. We may really hear God's voice, even if it is NOT audible to our human ears.

Who am I or or who are you? Has God ever spoke to us? If He has not then why are we even hear talking about this?

Are some of the people on this forum in error with their beliefs and doctrines? Very likely, but it is not also likely that you and I have missed a turn or two in the road as well? We need to take hold of His hand in this thing. No man can make it alone!

Yes, but at least I am admitting that I may be in error, in every thing that i say. I always precede my statements with that disclaimer '...I believe that...' And, as i said before, i receive epiphanies too, but I will never declare, unequivocally, that they are from God, not at this point.

 

[amadeus]

Alright, all I can say is that I, personally, choose to reserve all the inspirations that I've received, to myself, until I can articulately and certifiably claim that they have come from God. Of which, currently, I do believe that they did come from God. But, I expect absolutely no one to accept them as such, unless i impress them with either the wisdom, or the event, or both. And anyone who takes my word for it, on that basis alone, is credulous.
For, there is a side to me which feels that I could still be wrong, despite what I believe to be, the profundity of the insight. Everyone should have this caution about their inspirational claims, unless again, it was testified to by undeniable signs and wonders.

When God really speaks to our heart, it really is all the sign and all the wonder that we need, even if no one else is able to witness with his five natural senses. Some things really are, I believe, intended by God to be shared with others, while other things most certainly are not.

 

[DNB]

@DNB




Who was Nebuchadnezzar supposed to assist with his dreams? Who was Pharaoh supposed to assist with his dreams? Then again Joseph had dreams from God and he eventually learn to follow God, but when he had most of the dreams, was he not still a spoiled child with no real understanding of just what those dreams meant.

Maybe some people really want to impress others with their dreams. That seemed to be the case with young Joseph, but that did not change the reality of the messages, did it?

Why do you presume that anyone telling about their dreams or visions from or their experiences with God are want to show off how close they are to God? Certainly people may do this, like Joseph, but should we treat them as Joseph was treated by his brothers?

Joseph's brothers challenged the implications of his dreams as well. Spoiled and proud he may have been but that does not make his brother right in their course of action. If the ones here you question look to you a bit like Joseph, do you look to anyone just a bit like his brothers?

Both Pharaoh's and Nebuchadnezzar's dreams helped everyone, clearly. The famine was able to be alleviated, the history of nations was revealed to us. Their dreams affected everyone within their scope of influence.

 

[DNB]

You are being selective...but it makes a good example of your complete error:

By naming the apostles as having "proved their inspiration", but leaving out the multitudes present on the day of Pentecost, you show yourself to be like those "mocking" who said, “They are full of new wine.”...because, having read of their error you now say much the same thing about anyone who may have been inspired also according to the prophecy of Joel.

Your skepticism is not proof, nor is that the test.

You're being selective Scott, you chose an example where inspired men were mocked. What about when uninspired people were praised for their 'folly' (Elymas/Simon the magician?
I'm just saying that it's one or the other. Thus, i must use discretion in discerning, and this is what i do.

 

[amadeus]

Both Pharaoh's and Nebuchadnezzar's dreams helped everyone, clearly. The famine was able to be alleviated, the history of nations was revealed to us. Their dreams affected everyone within their scope of influence.

Indeed they helped and being included in the written scriptures they have helped beyond that. Not everything that Jesus spoke during his 3½ year ministry is written in scripture and neither is everything that God has done been so written. Someone's dream shared with others today may seem like foolishness to some including yourself, but would you presume to know all of God's purposes for everyone else?

 

[DNB]

Perhaps, but why do you presume that what you consider to be nonsense would necessarily considered as nonsense to the hearers or to God?

From their own mouths they claim that it's nonsense (I've seen enough debates).
As far as God considering it nonsense, ...I only have my wits to know the difference, which are fallible, indeed. But, that's all that I have, and God expects me to use it.

 

[DNB]

Don't call other people's relationships with divinity to be "fantasies" unless you're willing to also have your relationship with divinity called a "fantasy".

We are called to walk with God, each person discerning right from wrong with Him. But not to pretend we understand another person's walk with Him or their Judge-- that's God's role.

I am prepared, and always have. In fact, I am always the first to say it.

 

[Jenniferdiana3637]

When people are born again, it is when the spiritual kingdom enters them and they become one with the "kingdom of God" within them so the holy spirit is the kingdom of God that enters us when we become born again in the spirit of Christ...thats why Jesus said that the power of God has come among them because it was him working miracles and teaching the truth in the holy spirit he possessed inside him but because of thier lack of faith and unbelieving heart they did not recognize Jesus and who he was or what and how he was doing those miracles....the power of God was Jesus himaelf among them with the power of God within him...the holy spirit..the spirit of truth and the only way to access thr spiritual kingdom of God ..when we receive the holy spirit it is when we enter the kingdom of God, can connect to the Lord, see all truth and have access to all things of the kingdom of heaven and God....its when we become one with the spirit and both God and his son Jesus... John 3:5 John 14:23 John 15:4 John 6:54 John 6:63 1 John 5:1 Luke 17:21 John 4:24

 

[DNB]

Indeed they helped and being included in the written scriptures they have helped beyond that. Not everything that Jesus spoke during his 3½ year ministry is written in scripture and neither is everything that God has done been so written. Someone's dream shared with others today may seem like foolishness to some including yourself, but would you presume to know all of God's purposes for everyone else?

No, not at all, and i truly hope that all those people are correct, and God is walking with them and helping them along their way. For they are doing a thousand times better than I am. I say this, sincerely, to my discredit.
It's extremely inspiring to hear of stories when the promises of God, are fulfilled in people's lives. Everyone rejoices (everyone = true Christians).
I just hope that the promises are not making some over eager?

 

[mjrhealth]

From their own mouths they claim that it's nonsense

And so you do the same, so whos right??? I dont expect any less from so called "christians" and that is so sad,

 

[mjrhealth]

I just hope that the promises are not making some over eager?

How can one not be over eager with thr promises of God, you should get excited and want to tell the world, proclaim it from the hill tops... should one not.

 

[DNB]

And so you do the same, so whos right??? I dont expect any less from so called "christians" and that is so sad,

We were talking about the eternality of Jesus as being nonsense, as being a stumbling block to Jews & Muslims. Scriptures and wisdom tell us that it's nonsense. For, everyone knows that, humans are mortal. Therefore, the one applying scripture & wisdom is correct.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, ....but, they are definitely deterred by nonsense.

seems like i recall some sychphants being offered blood and human body--or so they thought anyway--considering it nonsense

 

[DNB]

How can one not be over eager with thr promises of God, you should get excited and want to tell the world, proclaim it from the hill tops... should one not.

As long as you're quoting scripture, and not your own visions and dreams...
...for, these are the promises that I'm referring to, gifts of the Holy Spirit.