No One Dies And Goes To Heaven. It is not the Gospel of Christ.

[us2are1]

-- This is your response to me saying that your statement, "Luke was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus" was absolutely wrong.

I don't know who told you that, but it was NOT Christ.

You don't know. That is the truth. Have you spoken to Christ today and did he tell you that he didn't tell me that?

So now are you going to explain to everyone how it was possible for the robber on the cross to be with Christ in paradise that same day when Christ didn't ascend into heaven for approximately forty days. Then explain why there is no scripture that tells about the robber being Resurrected to ascend with him. While you are at it explain why a important event as the robbers on the cross were reported differently by those who were there and saw it?

44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.

It was so important and real that John didn't mention it at all and we know by Johns writing that he was there standing right beside Mary.


17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

You don't know. That is the truth. Have you spoken to Christ today and did he tell you that he didn't tell me that?

Today Christ was so busy talking to you SofM .... that He had no time for the rest of us .

It happens sometimes.

 

[us2are1]

-- This is your response to me saying that your statement, "Luke was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus" was absolutely wrong.

I don't know who told you that, but it was NOT Christ.

You don't know. That is the truth. Have you spoken to Christ today and did he tell you that he didn't tell me that?

So now are you going to explain to everyone how it was possible for the robber on the cross to be with Christ in paradise that same day when Christ didn't ascend into heaven for approximately forty days. Then explain why there is no scripture that tells about the robber being Resurrected to ascend with him. While you are at it explain why a important event as the robbers on the cross were reported differently by those who were there and saw it?

44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.

It was so important and real that John didn't mention it at all and we know by Johns writing that he was there standing right beside Mary.


17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.






.

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

 

[Foreigner]

Again, if you think the Luke that wrote the Gospel "was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus" then you obviously didn't get that from Christ.

I did speak to Jesus this morning. Sorry, but your name didn't come up.

 

[us2are1]

Again, if you think the Luke that wrote the Gospel "was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus" then you obviously didn't get that from Christ.

I did speak to Jesus this morning. Sorry, but your name didn't come up.

So you have nothing? No answers no reason nothing? You Obviously did not get that from Christ.

 

[Foreigner]

So you have nothing? No answers no reason nothing? You Obviously did not get that from Christ.

-- You claim that the Luke that wrote the Gospel was "a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus."

As I said before, I don't know who you got it from, but it wasn't Christ. You should be very cautious about who you listen to.
Especially if you are this gullible.

 

[Endtime]

So you have nothing? No answers no reason nothing? You Obviously did not get that from Christ.

He thinks he is a physiologist. Definitely not from Christ

I agree with your OP. The heaven and rapture crud got really out of hand pushed by collection plate sales.

 

[revturmoil]

Son of man said,

So now are you going to explain to everyone how it was possible for the robber on the cross to be with Christ in paradise that same day when Christ didn't ascend into heaven for approximately forty days.

Paradise and heaven aren't the same place. I think that nobody goes to heaven until the resurrection. The ones who populate the millennium come from the separation of the sheep and goats.

 

[Foreigner]

He thinks he is a physiologist. Definitely not from Christ

I agree with your OP. The heaven and rapture crud got really out of hand pushed by collection plate sales.

-- Endtime, Son of Man says of the Gospel of Luke (and I quote) "Luke was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus"

I pointed out that his comment was incorrect and his reply is what you replied to.

Please get the facts before you post. Thanks.

 

[Endtime]

-- Endtime, Son of Man says of the Gospel of Luke (and I quote) "Luke was a keeper of the books a gentile scribe who lived in around 160 AD and wrote his version of the Gospel to the patriarch of Antioch Theophilus"

I pointed out that his comment was incorrect and his reply is what you replied to.

Please get the facts before you post. Thanks.

I thought everyone knew that. That is part of history. I read the whole thread before replying. Thanks.

 

[Rach1370]

Son of Man said:
"You don't know. That is the truth. Have you spoken to Christ today and did he tell you that he didn't tell me that?"

Honestly....Foreigner could just say "I was talking to Christ today and didn't tell me that he did tell you...."

Apart from the illogical nonsense of your above statement, the very obvious fact is that Jesus does speak to everyone, everyday....through scripture. Paul tells us that ALL scripture is "God breathed and profitable to us for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." That means that if we can biblically support our ideas, your 'God told me' means nothing...it could just as well as been the ghost from Christmas past whispering in your ear....

And really, as the books of Acts and Luke are found in scripture, I'd say that the fact 'God' told you Luke shouldn't be in scripture (which magically seems to support your erroneous interpretation of scripture...handy of 'God' to do that)...then when it comes down to it, you're basically accusing God of not being able to keep His word together and holy.

So, when it comes down to it, you and Foreigner may indeed discuss the historical time frame and identity of the 'Luke' who wrote what we find in scripture...there are plenty of historical records that show who this man really was. But keep in mind that whichever 'Luke' it was, it is found in the bible the Holy Spirit inspired for us....that's another matter of history...reliable and very, very sound... the books we have now, are indeed God's word. You would need to go through every single historical record we have now (secular...like Socrates, Homer, Plato) things society clearly consider to be reliable accounts of things past, and discredit them all fully, to even have a chance at touching the credibility of the cannon of scripture...which can be proven to be much more accurate than those mentioned above. Good luck with that.

 

[SeekChrist]

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[revturmoil]

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

To be present with the Lord doesn't mean we are in heaven. We can't enter heaven until we are judged and have our glorified bodies. We wait in paradise which is a place of peace and rest as we await the resurrection.

 

[veteran]

It makes no sense that a man dying on a cross would have to remind another man dying on a cross that he is telling him something 'today'. One thing for sure is that both men (all 3 actually) were going to die 'TODAY'. In every other instance (over 50 times) where Jesus uses the phrase, Verily...I say unto you... he never says or implies that he is saying it... 'today.'
I get so tired of Christian's who pervert God's word in order to fit their theology.

And I get tired of 'fakes' who deny the meaning of a simple word like 'today' while trying to hide their false support of the old Jewish tradition that when we die we stay in the casket until Christ comes.

 

[Hezekiah]

First one must read the scripture and see what the subject was. The thief asked Christ a question.

Luk 23:42

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
The thief asked Christ to remember him WHEN Christ came into His kingdom. Christ's kingdom is in the end time at the Second Advent. That kingdom will be here upon this earth. That is when the saved are gathered unto the Christ and not before that time.

Luk 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Christ merely answered the thief's question. There was no punctuation in the original text. The comma that I removed folloowing the word "thee" above was not there in the original text. Christ assured the thief on that very day that when He came into His kingdom at the Second Advent, that the thief would indeed be with Him in His earthly kingdom along with the other saints who had died and would be resurrected as well as those who were alive when He returns and are changed at His coming.

 

[veteran]

First one must read the scripture and see what the subject was. The thief asked Christ a question.

Luk 23:42

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
The thief asked Christ to remember him WHEN Christ came into His kingdom. Christ's kingdom is in the end time at the Second Advent. That kingdom will be here upon this earth. That is when the saved are gathered unto the Christ and not before that time.

Luk 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Christ merely answered the thief's question. There was no punctuation in the original text. The comma that I removed folloowing the word "thee" above was not there in the original text. Christ assured the thief on that very day that when He came into His kingdom at the Second Advent, that the thief would indeed be with Him in His earthly kingdom along with the other saints who had died and would be resurrected as well as those who were alive when He returns and are changed at His coming.

Then that interpretation would go against the very matter of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 about Christ going to the "spirits in prison" to preach The Gospel to them, and per the Isaiah 42:7 Scripture leading prisoners out that believed on Him.

We are not literally 'asleep' in the grave when our flesh dies. That was only a metaphor to represent how Christ's saints can never perish, which is why in some places in The Gospel Books Christ used the idea of death and sleep interchangeably. Apostle Paul covers that specific point in 1 Cor.15 too, that if one does not believe that Christ was raised from the dead, then it would mean the brethren that had died are perished.

Peter still speaking on the subject of The Gospel and the "spirits in prison" said this...

1 Pet 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(KJV)

 

[Hezekiah]

Veteran,

The spirits in prison spoken of here are the fallen angels who were created spirit beings and the demons who were their hybrid offspring. These were locked away until the judgement or until released in the final days as is Apollyon and the two at the river Euphartes. Christ (who is spirit) went and preached to them back around the time of the flood.

Christ was DEAD. For three days and nights Christ was totally dead just as everyone else dies. Believe me, Christ weent nowhere except to his tomb. Neither did the thief. Christ has risen but the thief is still dead and buried. Had Christ not been totally dead as is the deaths of all humans, it would have been a faked death and you and I would be dead in our sins. Christ rose from the DEAD - not from a slumber.

 

[veteran]

Veteran,

The spirits in prison spoken of here are the fallen angels who were created spirit beings and the demons who were their hybrid offspring. These were locked away until the judgement or until released in the final days as is Apollyon and the two at the river Euphartes. Christ (who is spirit) went and preached to them back around the time of the flood.

No, those "spirits in prison" are not about the fallen angels. They're about those the Scripture itself speaks of...

1 Pet 3:18-21
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(KJV)

The MAIN subject there is the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ, not the fallen angels. Per Jude 1 we know the fallen angels are kept in chains awaiting the great day of God's Judgment. That's why Peter later says this in regard to that subject of Christ preaching to those spirits of the flesh dead in the heavenly prison...

1 Pet 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(KJV)

Those that died back to Noah's days didn't have opportunity to hear The Gospel, believe, and be saved.

 

[Sabitarian]

veteran,
I hate to rain on your parade, but scripture does not support your premis that we are concious in the grave. Paslm 146:4, and Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 tell a different tale. 5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything neithor have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neithor have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.
I hope that this clears up your missconception of the nature of the dead.
Adam's body has long since returned to dust and his soul [breath of life] has returned to the one who gave it. Noah's body has long since turned to dust as we are made of dust and return to dust. All men who have died have returned to the dust and the breath given them has returned to the giver of life.
humble servant of the Lord god Most high

 

[Hezekiah]

Veteran,

There are flesh and blood human beings and there are spirit beings. That's it.
While there have been a very few human beings raised from the dead in flesh and blood bodies, there has only been ONE who has been raised from the dead as spirit. That was the Christ. No other has ever before or since been raised as spirit.

The saved in Christ have the promise to be raised in the first resurrection as spirit beings. That change takes place at His coming - not before. It does not take place upon our death. We do not change into a spirit being when we die. Only in the resurrection of the saints does this happen.

There are no former human beings who are now spirit beings in any prison or lazing around in any paradise. The dead are resting in their graves until called forth in one of the resurrections.