No one has seen God at any time, John?

[ScottA]

The Father is omnipresent: the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him, (Deu 10:14, 1Kngs 8:27, 2Chr 2:6, 2Chr 6:18), and there is nowhere anyone can go where He is not there. If you could ascend into the heavens, He is there: if you could descend into Sheol, He is there, (see Psa 139:7-11). Therefore the Father neither descends nor ascends, for He is indeed omnipresent, and is greater than the heavens, the heavens of the heavens, and even greater than the earth together with the heavens combined.

However the Son of man does indeed descend and ascend the heavens, (John 3:13, see also Psa 68:18 which contains Yah Elohim). This therefore is anthropomorphic, and is surely limited compared to the Father, and it speaks of the Son because he is the Word, (both the Rhema and the Logos because the Rhema, which is both spoken and written, contains the Logos within the understanding of the context).

In the beginning Ruach Elohim, the Spirit of the Father, was brooding over the waters, that is, like a mother hen of the doves, and this again is an anthropomorphism or, more correctly, a zoomorphism.

Yah Elohim is the Spirit of the Father because he is the Word of the Father, and testimony is spirit, and the Testimony of the Meshiah or Anointed One is Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), because it is the Logos-Word of the Father given to the Anointed One from the heavens, (John 3:27-29). Yah Elohim is Ruach Elohim who is the Dove in the immersion accounts.

The limitation is not Messiah, but is time and this world...and you are mixing them. Messiah was "before" also, which cannot be explained away by saying He descended and ascended. On the contrary, it shows Him to be all powerful--to be God.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus hasn’t exchanged his theology for another. I haven’t missed anything that was promised.

Tell us then...what did Daniel not write, and what did John read--of things that were written--but he did not write, and what is the promised finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Or be honest and admit that you do not know.

I‘m not following you. If you’ll provide a scripture reference in John, I’ll comment on it.

In the meantime I will say this - there is no prophecy that the Messiah will exchange his theology for someone elses.

Below are passages referring to the Word sealed that are part of the complete theology of Messiah that were not to be revealed and finished until the seventh angel, when he is about to sound. If what you say is true, that you "haven't missed anything that was promised"--then you should be able to state those things, for they were indeed promised:

Daniel 12:9​

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.​

John 16:13​

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.​

Revelation 10:4​

Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them.”​

Revelation 10:7​

but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.​

If you do not know, just say so, admit it. Which I would never have asked of you, if you were not boasting that you have the complete theology of Messiah.

 

[ScottA]

I‘m able to distinguish between his voice and yours. What did the trinitarians say when you shared - revealed to them this “word from Messiah in postdiction”?

There is nothing "between" when the Spirit speaks the word of Christ through those of whom He chooses. This you should know. You should also know that what you have just said is not unlike the Priest's and Pharisee's response to Jesus speaking the words of the Father. You reveal yourself.

As far as what the trinitarians said--what is that to you? I told you, not them.

 

[Matthias]

Below are passages referring to the Word sealed that are part of the complete theology of Messiah that were not to be revealed and finished until the seventh angel, when he is about to sound. If what you say is true, that you "haven't missed anything that was promised"--then you should be able to state those things, for they were indeed promised:

Daniel 12:9​

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.​

John 16:13​

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.​

Revelation 10:4​

Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them.”​

Revelation 10:7​

but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.​

If you do not know, just say so, admit it. Which I would never have asked of you, if you were not boasting that you have the complete theology of Messiah.

Thanks. I don’t see anything in any of the passages you quoted to support your assertion.

The Messiah hasn’t changed his theology. He’s still a Jewish monotheist.

 

[Matthias]

There is nothing "between" when the Spirit speaks the word of Christ through those of whom He chooses. This you should know. You should also know that what you have just said is not unlike the Priests and Pharisees response to Jesus speaking the words of the Father. You reveal yourself.

I’ve never attempted to conceal from anyone the fact that I’m a Jewish monotheist who believes that Jesus of Nazareth, himself a Jewish monotheist, is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

The priests and Pharisees were also Jewish monotheists. Few of them believed that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

As far as what the trinitarians said--what is that to you? I told you, not them.

Why haven’t you told them?

 

[dak]

The limitation is not Messiah, but is time and this world...and you are mixing them. Messiah was "before" also, which cannot be explained away by saying He descended and ascended. On the contrary, it shows Him to be all powerful--to be God.

Perhaps this may help:
The Meshiah is not in Gen 1.
The Son of Adam is in Gen 1.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks. I don’t see anything in any of the passages you quoted to support your assertion.

The Messiah hasn’t changed his theology. He’s still a Jewish monotheist.

What is it about unsealed and unfinished theology information that you do not understand as being a part of Messiah's complete theology? Is partial truth "all truth" as promised? No. And apparently all you have is part--not all.

So, let it be known that you are aware of the promises of the Messiah's complete theology, and that you have been offered it, but have rejected it. So shall it be written.

 

[Matthias]

What is it about unsealed and unfinished theology information that you do not understand as being a part of Messiah's complete theology? Is partial truth "all truth" as promised? No. And apparently all you have is part--not all.

So, let it be known that you are aware of the promises of the Messiah's complete theology, and that you have been offered it, but have rejected it. So shall it be written.

There is nothing at all in the passages you quoted for me that is incompatible with his Jewish monotheism.

 

[ScottA]

I’ve never attempted to conceal from anyone the fact that I’m a Jewish monotheist who believes that Jesus of Nazareth, himself a Jewish monotheist, is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

The priests and Pharisees were also Jewish monotheists. Few of them believed that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

And in doing so, you have aligned yourself with their error and offense.

Why haven’t you told them?

Because you and your fellows of Israel were first.

 

[ScottA]

Perhaps this may help:
The Meshiah is not in Gen 1:1.
The Son of Adam is in Gen 1:1.

Yes, I understand what you are getting at. But it is as I have told you, that much is "image" and not the declaration of another.

 

[Matthias]

And in doing so, you have aligned yourself with their error and offense.

I accept him, they reject him, and that aligns me with their error and offense?

Because you and your fellows of Israel were first.

Thank you. Please let me know when you get around to sharing it with the trinitarians. I’d like to hear what they say to you.

 

[ScottA]

There is nothing at all in the passages you quoted for me that is incompatible with his Jewish monotheism.

What is indeed incompatible, is not enduring to the end, to the complete finish of His theology.

 

[ScottA]

I accept him, they reject him, and that aligns me with their error and offense?

They rejected the beginning, you now reject the end.

 

[Matthias]

What is indeed incompatible, is not enduring to the end, to the complete finish of His theology.

Jewish monotheism is compatible with Jesus. He is, after all, a Jewish monotheist.

 

[Matthias]

They rejected the beginning, you now reject the end.

I don’t reject the end. I reject what you are telling me.

As I pointed out to you, all scripture is fully compatible with his Jewish monotheism.

Here’s what you’ll need to provide in order for me to reconsider: Jesus claimed for himself the creed of Judaism. (You called that “great” and “excellent” - I agreed that it is.) Please show me where in scripture you believe Jesus rejected the creed that he made his own.

 

[ScottA]

Thank you. Please let me know when you get around to sharing it with the trinitarians. I’d like to hear what they say to you.

You will see what Israel saw--not what they witnessed, but only what they did not believe.

 

[Matthias]

You will see what Israel saw--not what they witnessed, but only what they did not believe.

I take that to be your concession that the trinitarians aren’t going to believe you when you share with them what you shared with me. I still think you should and that you might be able to persuade some of them.

 

[ScottA]

Jewish monotheism is compatible with Jesus. He is, after all, a Jewish monotheist.

If your position were compatible with Jesus, you would have followed Him to the end. But you stopped where you only perceive that He stopped, and yet more was given that by His word was sealed and yet to be finished, making your theology--not His, but yours--incomplete.

 

[ScottA]

I don’t reject the end. I reject what you are telling me.

As I pointed out to you, all scripture is fully compatible with his Jewish monotheism.

Here’s what you’ll need to provide in order for me to reconsider: Jesus claimed for himself the creed of Judaism. (You called that “great” and “excellent” - I agreed that it is.) Please show me where in scripture you believe Jesus rejected the creed that he made his own.

I have told you nothing. But He has told you how this works, and you apparently did not believe Him.

 

[Matthias]

If your position were compatible with Jesus, you would have followed Him to the end.

I’m following Jesus and I will persevere to the end.

But you stopped where you only perceive that He stopped, and yet more was given that by His word was sealed and yet to be finished, making your theology--not His, but yours--incomplete.