No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

[Taken]

There is no scripture that says this.

You would have to comprehend Israel IS Gods People, and Faithful Israel shall be Saved.
Not much preaching of Christ Jesus the Messiah in Jewish synagogs for 2,000 years.
Gods Holy Angels shall be preaching and escorting Saved souls of the Jews and fellow Tribesment during the Tribulation.

When Paul wrote to Christians in Rome, some of whom were Jews, he revealed the existence of two Israel's in one sentence while rejecting one of them as such: "Not all the ones of Israel are Israel..." (Romans 9:6). There you have it; two distinct Israel's in one statement. The first represents the Israelites by blood alone, but Paul says this Israel is not Israel at all! Clearly, then, he calls the one, "Israel," whom he believes is not Israel, which can only mean he retains the use of the term only to identify the bloodline of Abraham, not to define it. He goes on to say, "...nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all his children."

Faithful to God IS Gods People ISRAEL.
Gods People Israel, who have Denounced God, (while they are bloodline), they are rejected by God.

"It is not [Abraham's] children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise.
The Promise made to Abraham, of his 'seed', namely Jesus and His children by faith.

Abraham's (stock sperm offspring) Faithful and true, through to Isaac, and Jacob, were the Promises given....and generationally forward...to Every man (Tribesman or Gentile) who receive the Seed of God, so also is the Promise of Land an inheritance unto them.

Christ IS the Seed of God.
Jesus took upon Himself the Seed of Abraham, so also does every man WHO is Converted, Have Christ's Seed, and also take upon themselves the seed of Abraham...(he becoming their earthly father), and they included in the Promise of Land inheritance.

This proves that Christians are now the only Israel of God.

No. Israel is the stock line of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others of the Hebrews and Tribesmen.
Gentiles converted in Christ, do not become Israel, they become accounted as faithful Abraham's seed.

Gal 3
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rockytopva]

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4

In other words Paul is saying here…. If the rapture occurs today it is no big deal as we live not in darkness.

And…
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

If we are going to return with Christ to reign a thousand years that would be rather a short trip (if this were post-trib) wouldn’t you say?

 

[Truth7t7]

And…
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

If we are going to return with Christ to reign a thousand years that would be rather a short trip (if this were post-trib) wouldn’t you say?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[David H.]

Which is your rewording to make me look bad. Do you realize what it means that you do this?? It's not me you give information about here, you are revealing yourself, someone who will relentlessly continue in falsehood.

Because what I say is this:


2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Why do you not believe this? This IS Bible.

It's not me you are arguing with.

And please . . . please . . . don't just give that empty reply . . . "You just think you don't need to grow or ANYTHING!"

We have been made complete in Him, we have been given Everything we need for life and godliness. Now, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Learn to think according to what God as made you into - His spirit child.

There ya' go! Not that this should be any surprise, but there it is in a nutshell. If you continue to say what you say contrary to this, you are either treating me a liar, or lying about me yourself.

So . . . be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Much love!

You have taken this great promises from scripture and construed them to fit your theology of complacency and comfort so that they say " I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;"

This is obvious in your denial of any moves of the Holy Ghost whatsoever in the church and denying the latter rain, and denying that we will do greater works than the Son of Man did in His ministry in the coming time. This is because you preach a watered down powerless Gospel devoid of the Spirit and all mental and textual.

This is fiction. Not in the Bible.

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. (James 5:7) The early rain was Pentecost as per acts 2, the latter rain is at the Coming of the Lord, the second coming. Perhaps you missed this verse?

Do You stand corrected?????

 

[Truth7t7]

You have taken this great promises from scripture and construed them to fit your theology of complacency and comfort so that they say " I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;"

This is obvious in your denial of any moves of the Holy Ghost whatsoever in the church and denying the latter rain, and denying that we will do greater works than the Son of Man did in His ministry in the coming time. This is because you preach a watered down powerless Gospel devoid of the Spirit and all mental and textual.



Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. (James 5:7) The early rain was Pentecost as per acts 2, the latter rain is at the Coming of the Lord, the second coming. Perhaps you missed this verse?

Do You stand corrected?????

You continue to claim a "Latter Rain"?

Would this be associated with the many pentecostals in the past, if so who's teaching?

 

[David H.]

Some have taken to appropriating that term for their own unBiblical doctrine commonly called the "Latter Rain Movement"

For the record, I have never once condoned any such movement in the charismatic circles of the church, In fact what I am showing is a latter rain that is an outpouring of the Discerning of Spirits not what we see in many of the so called "latter rain" movements which totally lack any discernment whatsoever. As a reaction to the strict textualism of the fundamentalist era Pentecostalism and its irrational behavior had a role in moving us away from that strict fundamentalism devoid of the Spirit, But in the process it Lost its sense of discernment and this is why we see all the "crazy charismatic" outpourings that are out there. Some are true Spirit filled moves, others are nothing but frauds, but with discernment not given many have a hard time saying which is which. So You have two sides, those who are all in, and those who are cessationist and scoffers, Both are wrong and both are right in certain aspects. This is why this final outpouring of the gift of discerning of the Spirits is so vital, because it will bring Unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace. We will Know who is truly moved by the Holy Ghost, and who is a charlatan we will see who is truly sound doctrinally and who is a false teacher, the tares amongst us will be exposed, and it will be a time of sorrow and repentance as well as healing and growth. Those who are moved by the Spirit now will grow in Knowledge and teach those who are strong in knowledge how to be moved by the Spirit and the same will occur in the opposite direction, as fellowship flowers and the harvest ripens and the fruit is produced.

 

[marks]

as fellowship flowers and the harvest ripens and

There is no "second Pentacost" in the Bible. It's not there. No teaching on it. No mention in a verse. Nothing.

Again, by trusting Jesus NOW, walking in faith NOW, you can live abundantly NOW.

The sad thing is those who refuse to believe. And instead have to turn against others.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

I'm asking you to support your claims with scripture when posted, thanks

And, I presume you should be somewhat studied in all that I have said. If there be something particular you can not verify with scripture, quote the particular I said.

Thanks.

 

[David H.]

You continue to claim a "Latter Rain"?

Would this be associated with the many pentecostals in the past, if so who's teaching?

No. I Am fundamentalist Baptist who believes in the Gifts of the Spirit..... Some would say I am an oxymoron in that respect. If there is any teacher that I follow, they are secondary to the word of God and the Holy Ghost who is my teacher. Of the men that i admire the most are A.W. Tozer, David Wilkerson, and Charles Lawson. I agree and disagree with all of them and they are all called by God for their generation.

 

[marks]

I have never once condoned any such movement in the charismatic circles of the church,

It doesn't matter, because there is no Latter Rain in the Bible AT ALL, except as relates to the crops. Wheat, barley, like that.

You can call anything you want "Latter Rain", and you can define it any way you want, because it's not in the Bible. There is no Biblical description, nothing.

But the general idea is EXACTLY the same . . . a "second Pentacost" when we get the REST of what we need.

This is refuted plainly:

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Remember . . . it's not me saying this, God is saying this. Listen to Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

because it will bring Unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace.

Colossians 3:12-15 KJV
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

God says do this now. Is your reply, NO, I CANNOT, not until You give me the rest of Your Spirit?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

There is no "second Pentacost" in the Bible. It's not there. No teaching on it. No mention in a verse.

So I guess you stand corrected on the latter rain now because I showed you the verse on this?

I Will grant you that no where in scripture does it say "second pentecost", But it is implied in the verse i quoted you on the latter rain, for we know the apostles understood pentecost to be the "Early rain", therefore it is not a stretch to see the latter rain as a second pentecost type event without actually using the words "second pentecost" Kind of like the word trinity is not in the Bible yet is pretty easily extrapolated from the text.

 

[David H.]

It doesn't matter, because there is no Latter Rain in the Bible AT ALL, except as relates to the crops.

Did You miss James 5:7 which I posted? Cause you are now making a fool of yourself.

 

[marks]

So I guess you stand corrected on the latter rain now because I showed you the verse on this?

I Will grant you that no where in scripture does it say "second pentecost", But it is implied in the verse i quoted you on the latter rain, for we know the apostles understood pentecost to be the "Early rain", therefore it is not a stretch to see the latter rain as a second pentecost type event without actually using the words "second pentecost" Kind of like the word trinity is not in the Bible yet is pretty easily extrapolated from the text.

And nowhere is this teaching. It's just not there. Meanwhile,

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Believe this.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

And nowhere is this teaching. It's just not there. Meanwhile,

It is right there is James 5:7, It just takes a little bit of mental gymanstics to see it.... Or more correctly some eyesalve from God, You may need to go buy some!

 

[marks]

You have taken this great promises from scripture and construed them to fit your theology of complacency and comfort so that they say " I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;"

No, I've quoted them to refute your error.

You put your own words in my mouth in an effort to make me look bad because I confront your error with Scripture. So rather than address the Scriptures, you twist what I say into something I've NEVER said. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me about you.

This is obvious in your denial of any moves of the Holy Ghost whatsoever in the church and denying the latter rain, and denying that we will do greater works than the Son of Man did in His ministry in the coming time. This is because you preach a watered down powerless Gospel devoid of the Spirit and all mental and textual.

Denial of any moves of the Holy Spirit? There's another false accusation you cannot support. Denying we will do greater works? No, I've never said that, so we've got here slander and lies. Hm. Who does that?

No, what I deny is your version of some Latter Rain Second Pentacost theology. That theology denies we have the Spirit in us now enabling us to fulfill God's will for us. You think it can't happen, well, it can.

I mean, do you honestly think that God has denied all the generations from Christ to now the ability to live for Him? To walk in the Spirit?

No. That is resoundingly refuted:

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

No, this is true for those 100 years ago, and 1000 years ago. We are not waiting for some future event so this passage will at long last be true. It's true now, regardless of your denial.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Believe this.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:7)

Do You believe he has more to give us than all we already have? Do You not want More of Jesus and More of the riches of His Grace, or are you content with your place? (Aka complacent)

 

[marks]

It is right there is James 5:7, It just takes a little bit of mental gymanstics to see it.... Or more correctly some eyesalve from God, You may need to go buy some!

Quote it. Exegete it. You cannot, because it's not there.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do You believe he has more to give us than all we already have? Do You not want More of Jesus and More of the riches of His Grace, or are you content with your place? (Aka complacent)

Don't you even now see???

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

This passage is true!

You empty accusations of Complacency aside.

Being given all you need, and renewing your mind so you will put it to use, these are two different things. But if you don't claim to believe you have what you need, then there's your excuse to not live as you know you should.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Did You miss James 5:7 which I posted? Cause you are now making a fool of yourself.

James 5:7 KJV
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

There, you've posted a verse that mentions latter rain. So now you can call me a fool. Does that feel good?

Oh, wait, this is comparing waiting for the Lord patiently, just as the farmer is patient, as he waits for the rains.

So where is the Latter Rain Spirit Outpouring part?

This seems really really tenuous as a foundation for labeling someone a fool. Do you do that often?

Much love!