No Righteousness = No Heaven

[VictoryinJesus]

The bible is full of instances of men and women being righteous by their own choices. Study the bible and see for yourself. I have posted many such verses many times. But people are very slow to see the truth.

foreshadowing the righteousness of Christ. The volume is of Him.

“Of course. But you are thinking that all who are not in Christ are going to hell. So you have a digital dogmatic view that is not the message of the bible...”
Don’t do that..don’t assume you know what I think of “hell”. Or going into the fire... don’t condemn before you know, or falsely accuse what you haven’t even asked.

 

[Episkopos]

foreshadowing the righteousness of Christ. The volume is of Him.

“Of course. But you are thinking that all who are not in Christ are going to hell. So you have a digital dogmatic view that is not the message of the bible...”
Don’t do that..don’t assume you know what I think of “hell”. Or going into the fire... don’t condemn before you know, or falsely accuse what you haven’t even asked.

OK Where do people who go who don't know Christ and just do the best they can?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

OK Where do people who go who don't know Christ and just do the best they can?

men gather them and cast them in the fire to be burned. yet He said not to fear what men could do to the body but to fear Him who has the power to destroy body and soul. God gathers out the Fire of affliction and gives them a new garment of praise. The fire is already kindled.

 

[Episkopos]

men gather them and cast them in the fire to be burned. yet He said not to fear what men could do to the body but to fear Him who has the power to destroy body and soul. God gathers out the Fire of affliction and gives them a new garment of praise. The fire is already kindled.

You're a universalist?

I find that people always take an idea too far....either everyone burns or else everyone lives. The bible is more than just a few pages long...for a reason. There is nuance. There are 4 possibilities listed in the bible....not just one or the other.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You're a universalist?

I find that people always take an idea too far....either everyone burns or else everyone lives. The bible is more than just a few pages long...for a reason. There is nuance. There are 4 possibilities listed in the bible....not just one or the other.

Universalist? No, do believe the ungodly are reserved ...God even stating He can reserve them for that day.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Deuteronomy 32:33-35 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [34] Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? [35] To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Why is this “laid up in store” with God, “reserved” and sealed up among His treasures? To Him belongs vengeance, and recompence.

 

[Episkopos]

Universalist? No, do believe the ungodly are reserved ...God even stating He can reserve them for that day.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Deuteronomy 32:33-35 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [34] Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? [35] To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Why is this “laid up in store” with God, “reserved” and sealed up among His treasures? To Him belongs vengeance, and recompence.

Fine..be obscure! :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The bible is full of instances of men and women being righteous by their own choices. Study the bible and see for yourself. I have posted many such verses many times. But people are very slow to see the truth.

if there was a passage to cause me to consider if that is true it would be:
1 Peter 1:10-12 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: [11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. [12] Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
“...that not unto themselves, but unto us did they minister...”

 

[Giuliano]

OK Where do people who go who don't know Christ and just do the best they can?

Remember, to whom much is given, much is required.

Jesus lights every man born according to John. We're also told by Paul by the Gospel had been preached in his day to every living creature; and we have this:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. . . .

And:

Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[justbyfaith]

But you are thinking that all who are not in Christ are going to hell. So you have a digital dogmatic view that is not the message of the bible...but taught as the doctrines of men.

Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The carnal mind can only see things in black and white dogmatic ways.

The fundamentalist, dogmatic position is actually very spiritual. It is the carnal mind that cannot receive the all of scripture is inspired by the Lord.

If a child draws a nice picture...is that by the righteousness of Christ in your view?

the righteousness of Christ comes not by what we do...but by faith. If the child made the picture in faith, then it was the righteousness of Christ.

Our own righteousness needs to exceed that of the Pharisees.

The righteousness of Christ becomes our own as He imparts it to us as a free gift (Romans 5:17 and context)

When Jesus said...I came not to call the righteous to repentance....how many indoctrinated people add their self life into it? How many add to the bible to misunderstand it by adding in "self". The carnal mind trying to understand the bible. So then these read the statement as "self-righteous"...without a clue as to their adding judgment to themselves by changing the words of Jesus away from the truth.

Most certainly, those who are righteous don't need to repent. How does Romans 3:10 apply?

Righteousness simply means 'right doing'.

More accurately, it means, "right standing"

Three times Jesus says to us that the righteous are they that are whole and have no need to a doctor. Those who love Jesus and the truth will have no problem admitting that. But the churches are filled with others... who add in a human interpretation to mean that Jesus is saying that the self-righteous are whole.

By this you seem to be attempting to make a case that those who don't believe in Christ can go to heaven. This is simply false doctrine. No one is righteous, no, not one (Romans 3:10). We are only made righteous through faith in Christ's one obedient act of going to the Cross (Romans 5:19)

 

[Episkopos]

Ernest T. Bass said: ↑
Righteousness simply means 'right doing'.

Amen!

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh (toils) righteousness, is accepted with him.

More accurately, it means, "right standing"

This is false. God doesn't accept people outside of reality and truth. No one has a right standing without right doing. God accepts people who DO WHAT IS RIGHT....see the above verse. But your idea is by a religious indoctrination...because it isn't biblical.

Spiritual things still happen within reality. When something has no bearing on reality we call that spiritualizing....and that is what your idea of right standing is.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not false. While righteousness (right standing with God) has within it a state of being holy and pure, this is not based on what we do to earn righteousness; for righteousness is given to us as a gift (Romans 5:17). How then can it be based on what we do?
.
.
.
If I do something in order to obtain a gift, it is not even a gift but was rather earned by me.

Picture a gift being given to you on Christmas; and then please tell me how that relates to you doing something (other than receiving the gift: and unwrapping the present is part of receiving: which relates to our abiding in Christ by staying in the word: another analogy for this being our eating of the bread of life on a daily basis).

 

[justbyfaith]

Amen!

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh (toils) righteousness, is accepted with him.

Even Cornelius (in context) had to send for Peter so that he could hear the gospel before Cornelius and his household received salvation, with evidence of speaking in tongues.

 

[Episkopos]

It is not false. While righteousness (right standing with God) has within it a state of being holy and pure, this is not based on what we do to earn righteousness; for righteousness is given to us as a gift (Romans 5:17). How then can it be based on what we do?
.
If I do something in order to obtain a gift, it is not even a gift but was rather earned by me.

But we are not given our own righteousness as a gift. Our righteousness is earned. What is the gift is the ability to be a minister of God...by having His righteousness on us...as an anointing. The anointing is the gift...the charis.

How could Peter put Ananias to death without even touching them unless by God's righteousness?

So you are not understanding what God's righteousness is. It is a gift of God's rule over His church.

No one is as righteous as God.

 

[Episkopos]

Even Cornelius (in context) had to send for Peter so that he could hear the gospel before Cornelius and his household received salvation, with evidence of speaking in tongues.

False again. Peter was sent as a witness to the righteousness of God in allowing the first Gentiles into HOLINESS. Cornelius was ALREADY righteous and therefore was already accepted by God.

Notice there was no need of repentance. Only the approved are baptized in the Spirit.

Please stop adding to the words of the bible. You hurt yourself and the naive who would listen to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

But we are not given our own righteousness as a gift. Our righteousness is earned.

False doctrine, refuted by this:

Rom 5:17, For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

No one is as righteous as God.

Also false doctrine, refuted by this:

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[justbyfaith]

False again. Peter was sent as a witness to the righteousness of God in allowing the first Gentiles into HOLINESS. Cornelius was ALREADY righteous and therefore was already accepted by God.

Notice there was no need of repentance.

Please stop adding to the words of the bible. You hurt yourself and the naive who would listen to you.

No; for while Cornelius had righteous behaviour in giving alms to the poor, he did not yet have the righteousness which is by faith; which came to him when he heard the gospel as it was proclaimed to him by Peter.

If Cornelius had all the righteousness that he needed, there would have been no need for him to send for Peter.

 

[Episkopos]

False doctrine, refuted by this:

Rom 5:17, For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)



Also false doctrine, refuted by this:

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You are moving more and more into error. You know an animal by where they go to seek refuge. A water animal goes into the water to escape danger. A bird flies off.

And a carnal man misunderstands the bible into more error.

We walk as Jesus walked by entering into Him. We take on His sinless perfection by putting on Christ...as an anointing. This is a free gift to all who forsake their own lives to allow themselves to be crucified away from their own strength. Then we are not walking in our own righteousness..but His. We will however still be judged by our own righteousness. If by the Spirit we have put sin to death...then that will be counted to us as holiness unto the Lord. Then we will be qualified to become part of the Bride.

I have already covered the DOING righteousness...which you refuted (yet you quote back to me without realizing it agrees with what I am saying). You cling to a fictional righteousness by a certain religious status...but God isn't religious.

So you are taking on my arguments that sink YOUR argument. :) And you are running in circles...but still not finding the end of your knot.

 

[justbyfaith]

Only the approved are baptized in the Spirit.

Cornelius was approved by receiving the message of the gospel: we can never be saved through what we do, but only through faith in the gospel message (placing my faith in the gospel message being the only thing that I do to receive salvation).

You are teaching false doctrine here, my friend.

Somewhere you got it in your head that a person can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

But the following, basic scripture applies:

Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you are taking on my arguments that sink YOUR argument. :)

I'm sorry I don't see that. Please show forth how you think that that is.

 

[Episkopos]

No; for while Cornelius had righteous behaviour in giving alms to the poor, he did not yet have the righteousness which is by faith; which came to him when he heard the gospel as it was proclaimed to him by Peter.

If Cornelius had all the righteousness that he needed, there would have been no need for him to send for Peter.

A person doesn't accumulate different righteousnesses as a set. A righteous person is just righteous. God sees Him for what he is and what he does. How he gets there is an individual thing. God judges on His own scale. You are trying to make a checklist that God doesn't have.

Judge not...but if you do do so righteously (which you can't since you have none of yourself)