No way home

[Riven]

That's what happens when you eat apples.

 

[2bme]

No, the fall was caused by disobedience to God's command, which states: Genesis 3

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” (After being convinced by Satan that they will not die)

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked.

You know in that story possessing the knowledge of good would have also caused the fall of Eve. Maybe the message is, don't believe what people say is good or evil. Maybe that's the warning we never headed.

 

[talons]

Alrighty: What I'm trying to convey is that Jesus couldn't be tempted by sin nature in the conventional way we do. Him being tempted at all points could only come from a outside force such as demon's or other people, but that's still not the full experience of sin.

What if I told you there is no "sin nature " but what we all as humans have is human nature and the ability to make choices .
Jesus was tested in all points as we are .

 

[2bme]

That's what happens when you eat apples.

If an apple a day keeps the doctor away, then imagine what a fruit-salad would do.

 

[Angelina]

Let's look at this another way. The command that was given to Adam about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16-17, Adam obviously gave that command to Eve because she had not been created yet. Genesis 2:18, Genesis 2:20-23.

God may have explained the command to Eve, but there is no scripture confirming this except for her assertion in Genesis 3:3

One thousand years may have passed before that temptation was given. Satan didn't approach Adam because, personally, I don't believe he would have fallen for it. So these two had a personal relationship with God, perhaps for a thousand years. They walked with him every day in the garden, and they both knew the rule about the tree. Remember, this scenario had already played out, as some of God's angels had fallen into a similar trap by Satan prior to this. I am assuming that they would have known good from evil, but like us, they had a free will. Sin is disobedience towards God's command.

 

[2bme]

If he "experienced sin" (if by that you mean) actually sinning, he did not. Although, had he have sinned he would not be our Savior who was without sin.

By him also all things were created so I could never see how it would be possible to tempt him lustfully towards a woman (for example). That would be weird to even think about. Like if you sat down and created clay figures and breathed life into them (as ridiculous as that sounds) do you think you could lust after them? I wouldnt think so.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

Well what I mean in a broader sense is Jesus didn't actually experience his own thoughts enticing him into sin, as we do. My question really is about the tempting force of sin internally, I'm thinking how it's possible for Jesus to even know that side of sin nature. How can he know that side of sin without compromising his perfection?

 

[Angelina]

Well what I mean in a broader sense is Jesus didn't actually experience his own thoughts enticing him into sin, as we do.

Interesting thoughts again, brother. He experienced temptations, just like everyone had. The difference was he did not sin, and he died sinless and rose again. His blood washes us from sin if we believe in him by his grace through faith. He became a great high priest and an intercessor to the Father on our behalf. If he didn't experience what it was like to be tempted every day, we wouldn't have a savior.

My question really is about the tempting force of sin internally, I'm thinking how it's possible for Jesus to even know that side of sin nature.

Because he is God the Son, he came to earth to save that which was lost. However, he came in the form of a man and relinquished his Godhood position to become like a man in every way.

Philippians 2
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

How can he know that side of sin without compromising his perfection?

Because he is God the Son in the form of a man, and he knew mankind's nature. John 2 (Amplified) says:

23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, many believed in His name [identifying themselves with Him] after seeing His signs (attesting miracles) which He was doing. 24 But Jesus, for His part, did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew all people [and understood the superficiality and fickleness of human nature], 25 and He did not need anyone to testify concerning man [and human nature], for He Himself knew what was in man [in their hearts—in the very core of their being].

 

[2bme]

What am I doing people?

 

[Behold]

I've read the Bible and already know this.
However: Are human beings tempted exclusively by demons?

You know where I'm going with this right?

You are tempted when you are enticed by your own flesh, to LUST.

So, your mind sees something, and your flesh lusts for it......that is how you are tempted.

 

[Matthias]

What am I doing people?

Metaphorically speaking, you’re drowning.

 

[Muna]

Well what I mean in a broader sense is Jesus didn't actually experience his own thoughts enticing him into sin, as we do. My question really is about the tempting force of sin internally, I'm thinking how it's possible for Jesus to even know that side of sin nature. How can he know that side of sin without compromising his perfection?

Angelina gave a good response, I'll just add a little to it, I had much of the same questions and would reason from my own head concerning things rather than from the scrptures and its harder for me to go back there and remember where I came from and bring in the scriptures according to some of our reasons, and I sometimes have to think whether a question (according to our own reasonings, naturally) is a valid line of reasoning. I am not too good at that, but I will give it a go as best I can according to how I might see the scriptures adress some of these things (more or less).

2beme writes

Well what I mean in a broader sense is Jesus didn't actually experience his own thoughts enticing him into sin

He still knows mens thoughts

Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

Satan is shown filling the heart here

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Giving the devil a foothold

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Sometimes things come into the mind

Ezekiel 38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought

God knows our hearts

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And so Paul tells us to cast these down

2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

We don't want Satan to get an advantage of us being ignorant of his devices

2beme writes

My question really is about the tempting force of sin internally

James writes,

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Or as Paul says,

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

This is a good chapter, in contrast to Romans 7:5 for "when we were" in the flesh" there he says here

Romans 8:9 But ye "are not" in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now reread James 1: 14-15 (above) and was it down with Gal 5:16

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


2beme writes

I'm thinking how it's possible for Jesus to even know that side of sin nature. How can he know that side of sin without compromising his perfection?

He knew what was in man, who were servants of sin, Jesus was a partaker of our flesh and blood but he knew no sin. And yet at the same time it says

2Cr5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Returning back to Romans again Paul says,

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Sin entered into the world by one man (Adam) who was a figure of him to come

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

One disobeyed unto death, and Jesus obeyed unto death

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Sin shall not have dominion over you under the grace that comes by Jesus Christ

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I don't know if these will help any, but I had the some of the same questions myself, if not maybe another might be able to help you alot better than I might be abe to.

 

[Riven]

What am I doing people?

 

[2bme]

You are tempted when you are enticed by your own flesh, to LUST.

So, your mind sees something, and your flesh lusts for it......that is how you are tempted.

Indeed.

 

[2bme]

Metaphorically speaking, you’re drowning.

I just want attention.

 

[2bme]

Is that cat for sale?

 

[Matthias]

I just want attention.

Same as it ever was. You had it and you have it. What will you do with it this time around?

 

[2bme]

Same as it ever was. You had it and you have it. What will you do with it this time around?

There's nothing wrong with needing attention. Think about what's happening now with our preoccupation with technology, It's simulating our very human need for social connection. Which comes down to not paying attention to other people. I see it everyday. People everywhere becoming accustomed to maximizing their attention for the artificial rather than the natural.

 

[Lambano]

I just want attention.

Lonely?

 

[Matthias]

There's nothing wrong with needing attention. Think about what's happening now with our preoccupation with technology, It's simulating our very human need for social connection. Which comes down to not paying attention to other people. I see it everyday. People everywhere becoming accustomed to maximizing their attention for the artificial rather than the natural.

That’s a good observation.

***

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning -

“Underrated life skill: Listening without waiting to talk. You’ll be shocked how much people will tell you - if you actually let them finish. What folks want isn’t advice. It’s your attention. You don’t win people over with your story. You win them over by letting them finish theirs.”

(Blake Burge)

https://x.com/blakeaburge/status/1945090974168048109?s=46&t=T64e94h2unfHH-VO4i01zA

 

[talons]

Well what I mean in a broader sense is Jesus didn't actually experience his own thoughts enticing him into sin, as we do.

I guess by now you figured out I don't hold to a "sin nature " doctrine .
Since Jesus was human , made of human flesh , of course He had thoughts , however fleeting they may have been , enticing him to sin but He did not sin , it is when you dwell on those sinful thoughts that problems begin . Jesus did not cross the line into sin . Jesus Christ is our example to follow as Christians , He is empowered by the Holy Spirit just as we are and we must heed the prompting we get from the Holy Spirit to not commit sin . 2 Cor 10 .

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;