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MatthewG

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Hello @Spiritual Israelite,

I use to believe Jesus was coming back, and I changed my mind.


Thats fine if you hate that. This will waste 27 minutes of your life.

I don't get any money for doing it, I just share for people and their benefit and I try not to down play them if possible!

However you will understand completely where I am coming from. You don't know everything I believe at all.

Many people just want to argue, debate, and say victory! It's all fleshly in nature.

I just share what the scripture say, and believe most people just chop the bible up and make it all about themselves.

Take “the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:10). People say, “That’s the end of the world!” But they miss the deeper truth—it was the end of their world, their temple, their covenant, their system. “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35). They don’t ask what “elements” meant to Peter’s audience. They just want fire and finality.

Their whole world did pass away. Jesus words continue to remain even so after the fact, he told the truth. I believe it still good to learn from Jesus but not everything is about us, as people so make it out to be.

Ya know what I mean? However still you can't change peoples minds, only God can, and he can only do that by the holy spirit.

Grace, and peace,
Matthew
 
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Douggg

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Yes, you created a wild mixture of the OT and NT verses. My question was if you do not find it disturbing that such view/mixture is never taught in the New Testament.

That such view had to wait for you to construct it.
The understanding of how everything fits has been sealed until the time of the end - our days.

Daniel 12:
5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


The 15 time of the end time frames are found in three books of the bible. Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation


time frames by chapter.jpg
 

Douggg

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@HealthyShape

There are three main studies to getting the big end times picture leading up to Jesus's return.

1. the 15 time frames. (I have given you the charts on those.)

2. the five stages of the little horn person (first chart below). The little horn>prince that shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast-king

3. the seven segments of day of the Lord (second chart below).

5 stages.jpg

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the seven segments.jpg
 

HealthyShape

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@Douggg I did not want more of your creations (I am not even reading them), I was only asking if you find it disturbing that your eschatology is not mentioned in the New Testament - at all.

That it had to wait for you to figure it out. But you kind of answered that you think it was "sealed" (meaning hidden, I guess) till you appeared.
 

Douggg

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@Douggg I did not want more of your creations (I am not even reading them), I was only asking if you find it disturbing that your eschatology is not mentioned in the New Testament - at all.

That it had to wait for you to figure it out. But you kind of answered that you think it was "sealed" (meaning hidden, I guess) till you appeared.
Zechariah 14:4 when Jesus returns, He will stand on the mount of Olives and split it in half. Has not happened yet.
 

HealthyShape

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Zechariah 14:4 when Jesus returns, He will stand on the mount of Olives and split it in half. Has not happened yet.
Many prophetical images are not supposed to happen literally. Ever.

It is like saying that a literal beast with 7 literal heads has not ruled the literal world, yet.
 

Douggg

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Many prophetical images are not supposed to happen literally. Ever.

It is like saying that a literal beast with 7 literal heads has not ruled the literal world, yet.
The splitting of the mount of Olives is literal because of what it says in the next verse, Zechariah 14: 5. Let's ask @MatthewG why he does not believe Zechariah 14, the splitting of the mount of Olives as proof that the return of Jesus has not happened yet.

Also, look at "and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." That is Jesus returning with His resurrected/rapture saints - the bride of Christ in Revelation 19.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
 

HealthyShape

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The splitting of the mount of Olives is literal because of what it says in the next verse, Zechariah 14: 5.
Zech 14:5 also does not need to be literal.
Also, look at "and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." That is Jesus returning with His resurrected/rapture saints - the bride of Christ in Revelation 19.
This is just your personal interpretation. It does not need to mean that.
 

Douggg

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I watched your video. Your claim is that the epistles were written to believers in different locations back in the days of the apostles.

While that part is correct, what you are not recognizing is a big portion of the content in the epistles deals with Jesus's return, and the resurrection/rapture into everlasting eternal bodies. Neither of those have happened yet.

And your suggestion that maybe there was no historical record was because people of that day just didn't care to write about it - is foolish to say the least.
 

MatthewG

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Hello @HealthyShape,

Who cares what they believe... They can believe whatever they want to. People will test things or falsely believe them.

Grace and peace,
Matthew
 

MatthewG

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Hello @Douggg,

They were killing Christians, they wouldn't care that people taken. Thank you for watching the video though.

People don't care about the first century christians otherwise they would mention them. So yes.

People don't care if people are Christian today, why would there be any difference. I have no historical proof but I have faith Jesus never lied, nor the apostles.

All the best.

Grace and peace,
Matthew
 

Douggg

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Your personal interpretation does not need to be truth. And not accepting it does not mean hiding.

The New Testament does not use this prophecy in any way. Why?
Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

"the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

Jude wrote...

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
 

Douggg

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Hello @HealthyShape,

Who cares what they believe... They can believe whatever they want to. People will test things or falsely believe them.

Grace and peace,
Matthew
The difference is that I am showing text of Zechariah 14 right out of the bible as proof that Jesus has not returned yet.
 

MatthewG

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The difference is that I am showing text of Zechariah 14 right out of the bible as proof that Jesus has not returned yet.
Hello Douggg,

I do not care. That is the truth. Believe whatcha want.
It has nothing to do with salvation anyway.

Grace and peace,
Matthew
 

HealthyShape

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Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

"the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

Jude wrote...

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Why is Zech 14 never quoted in the New Testament and never connected with the second coming? Jude quotes Enoch, not Zech, you have it in the verse, just read it full.
 

Davidpt

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Why is Zech 14 never quoted in the New Testament and never connected with the second coming? Jude quotes Enoch, not Zech, you have it in the verse, just read it full.

IOW, apparently, in your mind it not reasonable that any prophets ever echoed what earlier prophets have said? Speaking of Zechariah.

Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;


This says Jeremiah initially spoke these words. Where then in the book of Jeremiah can we find these words?

Guess what though?

Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.


Except Zechariah is not Jeremiah, yet it is obvious that what Zechariah 14:13-24 is referring to is what Matthew 27:9 is referring to.

With that in mind unless you dispute Zechariah 11:12-13 is meaning Matthew 27:9, we then need to apply the same logic to the following.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


First of all, no one except for maybe Preterists would insist Jude 1:14-15 has already been fulfilled. Jude 1:14 says Enoch initially spoke these words. Yet the only thing we can find in the OT that matches these words is Zechariah 14:5 and this---and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Therefore, Zechariah 14:5 can't have already been fulfilled because Jude 1:14-15 hasn't already been fulfilled.

What is one going to do here? Be inconsistent about things by insisting Zechariah was echoing Jeremiah in Zechariah 11:12-13 but wasn't echoing Enoch in Zechariah 14:5? That's called cherry picking if one does decide to do that. Clearly though, Zechariah 14:5 involves the future coming of Christ because Jude 1:14-15 involves the future coming of Christ. It's that simple. It's called interpreting Scripture with Scripture, yet you insist that the NT is silent in regards to anything recorded in Zechariah 14.

More proof you are wrong that the NT does not echo any of Zechariah 14, is by comparing some of the following with some of the following.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Compare with...

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him :

Notice that it says shall serve Him rather than them, keeping in mind 2 entities are in view. Where in my mind agrees with one Lord and His name one.
 
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Douggg

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Hello Douggg,

I do not care. That is the truth. Believe whatcha want.
It has nothing to do with salvation anyway.

Grace and peace,
Matthew
By not believing that resurrection/rapture is still to come, you are setting yourself up to have to go through the great tribulation.