Not by works - but by faith

[Faither]

Okay brother, I said what I had to. Carry on.

Carry on with somebody else? Or Carry on with you?
If you read my archived posts you get a sense of where I'm coming from. If you don't want to do that, I'll start from the beginning here now. Your call.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

i think we need to realise the grace that sustains us.

We can't go thinking about performance. our goal should always be, who can I serve. What can I do to help others (others focused)

the problem is. We are told by some we are holy in the way we act. when in fact we are not (this is dangerous. I know I lived it)

This is almost over my head, really. Not your post, but the topic. We can be righteous, humanly speaking. We can do the right thing (or the wrong thing.) As a friend of mine says, we are a mixture and there is good in us and there is bad in us. But holiness, we cannot do or be except if that grace is given to us to walk in the Spirit rather than just be led by the Spirit.

All scripture is good for training in holiness? No. All scripture is good for training in righteousness.

 

[Faither]

This is almost over my head, really. Not your post, but the topic. We can be righteous, humanly speaking. We can do the right thing (or the wrong thing.) As a friend of mine says, we are a mixture and there is good in us and there is bad in us. But holiness, we cannot do or be except if that grace is given to us to walk in the Spirit rather than just be led by the Spirit.

All scripture is good for training in holiness? No. All scripture is good for training in righteousness.

The topic is Faith and how it's fulfilled.

Salvation is by Grace through Faith?

 

[mailmandan]

Faith is an assurance.

it is different from mere belief, as in belief is just knowledge based. No assurance is necessary

Works are not required for faith. it is a byproduct of faith If you trust someone, you will at least do some of what they say)

James speaks of people who claim to have faith but has zero works period.

James calls this faith dead. or belief as in the demons believe also.

Mere belief has no assurance, It never repented. and it does not have power

thats why there is no works

But remember, These same people were in church. They were seating people (most likely ushers) many claim this as works. so it is not the actions which are in question. it is something else.

Amen! Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (NASB) Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple! :)

*There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find both groups mixed together in various churches and on various Christian forums.

 

[Faither]

Faith is the " substance" of things hoped for! Not assurance!

Faith to be Faith can't be seen or assured. Once the object of Faith is seen or assured, it's not Faith anymore but has become a fact.

The word"assurance" doesn't appear in any legit definition of pisteuo.

 

[mailmandan]

Faith is the "substance" of things hoped for! Not assurance!

Faith to be Faith can't be seen or assured. Once the object of Faith is seen or assured, it's not Faith anymore but has become a fact.

The word "assurance" doesn't appear in any legit definition of pisteuo.

Faith is the assurance (NASB, NRSV, ESV, RSV etc..) of things hoped for.. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this certain hope. Hebrews 10:22 mentions "full assurance of faith."

BTW are you also a member of Christian Chat who goes by the avatar name of "Pisteuo" there? Your "faithing" argument sounds very familiar.

 

[Faither]

Faith is the assurance (NASB, NRSV, ESV, RSV etc..) of things hoped for.. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this certain hope. Hebrews 10:22 mentions "full assurance of faith."

BTW are you also a member of Christian Chat who goes by the avatar name of "Pisteuo" there? Your "faithing" argument sounds very familiar.

Same reply as 185.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Faith is the " substance" of things hoped for! Not assurance!

Faith to be Faith can't be seen or assured. Once the object of Faith is seen or assured, it's not Faith anymore but has become a fact.

The word"assurance" doesn't appear in any legit definition of pisteuo.

If you have no assurance in the one you are trusting in

you will never have faith

if we do not have assurance of eternal life. Our faith is nonsense and meaningless and powerless

those are just facts

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is almost over my head, really. Not your post, but the topic. We can be righteous, humanly speaking. We can do the right thing (or the wrong thing.) As a friend of mine says, we are a mixture and there is good in us and there is bad in us. But holiness, we cannot do or be except if that grace is given to us to walk in the Spirit rather than just be led by the Spirit.

All scripture is good for training in holiness? No. All scripture is good for training in righteousness.

I see what your saying

I think it is a moment by Moment thing

in any moment are we walking in the spirit or the flesh

and are we in the flesh but think we are in spirit and vise versa

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Same reply as 185.

Did you read a thing he posted?

 

[mailmandan]

Did you read a thing he posted?

It doesn’t sound like it. ;)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It doesn’t sound like it. ;)

he could not have, and went back to what you thoroughly refuted as his answer again.. without refuting what you said in rebuttle. which he did not do

 

[Faither]

If you have no assurance in the one you are trusting in

you will never have faith

if we do not have assurance of eternal life. Our faith is nonsense and meaningless and powerless

those are just facts

I just don't have the energy to untangle your understanding.

 

[Faither]

Did you read a thing he posted?

He left me hanging in another conversation.
You and he had your chance, let someone else have a turn!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just don't have the energy to untangle your understanding.

Maybe that’s because you can’t?

I mean really. This is quite a nonsensical
Comment

Wad it not you who said I offended you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He left me hanging in another conversation.
You and he had your chance, let someone else have a turn!

You have not answered us yet

before you refuse to answer others why not answer us?

 

[Faither]

You have not answered us yet

before you refuse to answer others why not answer us?

Because neither of you have the ability to listen! And, you don't want to learn, you want to teach. Your both happy on your path so let someone who can listen, and has the desire to learn have a chance.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because neither of you have the ability to listen! And, you don't want to learn, you want to teach. Your both happy on your path so let someone who can listen, and has the desire to learn have a chance.

We have answered your questions

you have not answered ours

it is you who are not willing to listen

you keep digging your whole deeper. You should stop before it’s too late

a good start would be to answer our questions. Show you are listening. And not just here to attack anyone who disagrees with you

 

[Faither]

We have answered your questions

you have not answered ours

it is you who are not willing to listen

you keep digging your whole deeper. You should stop before it’s too late

a good start would be to answer our questions. Show you are listening. And not just here to attack anyone who disagrees with you

I'll pass.
Anyone else?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'll pass.
Anyone else?

its good to know you have no true desire to discuss.

Thank you