Not by works - but by faith

[Faither]

First, let's see if you can accept the mountain of facts one at a time as I share them with you?

1) Pistis is the Greek word where we get our English word Faith, a noun used 245 times.
2) pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, and is used 248 times in the NT.
3) The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis.
4) the words believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun"Belief" , not the noun Faith.
Do you agree with these first 4 facts?

Repost for mark

 

[marks]

Repost for mark

You are parsing being faith and belief. What do you see to be the difference between these two English words?

You write, "believe" is the corresponding verb to belief, not faith. Which particular Greek words are you illustrating here? Pistis and Pisteuo?

If so, what do you understand to be the difference between these Greek words, other than that one is a noun form, and one is the verb?

What exactly do pisteuo and pistis mean to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, let's see if you can accept the mountain of facts one at a time as I share them with you?

1) Pistis is the Greek word where we get our English word Faith, a noun used 245 times.
I take it what you mean is not that Pistis is the origin of the word Faith, rather that Pistis is commonly translated faith. Certainly.
2) pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, and is used 248 times in the NT.
Yes, Pisteuo is the verb of the noun Pistis. I'll take your word for the word count.
3) The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis.
Belief and believe work just fine, I think, although we tend to see more "reliance" in faith over belief. But when Jesus tells them, in the English translation, Only Believe, I don't think there is any meaning lost.
4) the words believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun"Belief" , not the noun Faith.
That is the American English use.

Do you agree with these first 4 facts?

Now . . . my questions please.

 

[Episkopos]

The element that is missing here is that pistis also means "faithfulness" as well as faith. Pisteuo means...to be faithful...the actual verb meaning of pistis and this works along with the continuing act of believing towards salvation.

So then faith and faithfulness work together. As does the Hebrew Emounah. So these both follow the same idea...which is you don't have faith without faithfulness. Or...faith without faithfulness is dead.

It is important to realize that being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given. (As in well done good and faithful servant)

Rev. 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Faither]

You are parsing being faith and belief. What do you see to be the difference between these two English words?

You write, "believe" is the corresponding verb to belief, not faith. Which particular Greek words are you illustrating here? Pistis and Pisteuo?

If so, what do you understand to be the difference between these Greek words, other than that one is a noun form, and one is the verb?

What exactly do pisteuo and pistis mean to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, let's see if you can accept the mountain of facts one at a time as I share them with you?

1) Pistis is the Greek word where we get our English word Faith, a noun used 245 times.
I take it what you mean is not that Pistis is the origin of the word Faith, rather that Pistis is commonly translated faith. Certainly.
2) pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, and is used 248 times in the NT.
Yes, Pisteuo is the verb of the noun Pistis. I'll take your word for the word count.
3) The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis.
Belief and believe work just fine, I think, although we tend to see more "reliance" in faith over belief. But when Jesus tells them, in the English translation, Only Believe, I don't think there is any meaning lost.
4) the words believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun"Belief" , not the noun Faith.
That is the American English use.

Do you agree with these first 4 facts?

Now . . . my questions please.

Pistis is the exact origin of where we get our English word "Faith."
By my count you agree with no.2 and that's it. These aren't my opinions, they are easily validated facts. If you don't agree with them , you must have a reason to not accept these facts.

So let's look at fact 1. Pistis is the Greek word where our English word Faith comes from.

Do you agree?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The element that is missing here is that pistis also means "faithfulness" as well as faith. Pisteuo means...to be faithful...the actual verb meaning of pistis and this works along with the continuing act of believing towards salvation.

So then faith and faithfulness work together. As does the Hebrew Emounah. So these both follow the same idea...which is you don't have faith without faithfulness. Or...faith without faithfulness is dead.

It is important to realize the being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given.

Rev. 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Faithfulness is a different word. Although yes it does have the same root word.

your back door attempt to try to insert works to salvation is failing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Pistis is the exact origin of where we get our English word "Faith."
By my count you agree with no.2 and that's it. These aren't my opinions, they are easily validated facts. If you don't agree with them , you must have a reason to not accept these facts.

So let's look at fact 1. Pistis is the Greek word where our English word Faith comes from.

Do you agree?

He answered your questions

can you answer him?

As for the English word are you willing to learn?

The origin of the English word faith...

Noun

Middle English feith, fei, borrowed from Anglo-French feit, feid, fei, going back to Latin fidēs "trust, guarantee, proof, sincerity, loyalty, belief," going back to *bhid-ēi-, noun derivative from zero-grade of an Indo-European verbal base *bhei̯dh-"entrust, trust," whence Latin fīdere "to trust (in), have confidence (in)," fīdus "faithful," Greek peíthesthai "to obey, comply with, believe," peíthein "to persuade, prevail upon," Albanian be "oath," and probably Old Church Slavic běždǫ, běditi "to compel, constrain," běda "distress, need"

NOTE: The English word is an early loan from medieval French, first attested in a homily fragment from the 12th century (see feþ in Dictionary of Old English); it appears to preserve the final interdental fricative generally lost in early Old French—a loss reflected in the more common Anglo-French form fei (also loaned into Middle English—see FAY entry 2). Indo-European *bhei̯dh- is also usually claimed to be the source of Germanic *bīðan- "to wait" (see BIDE).

Verb

verbal derivative of FAITH entry 1

 

[marks]

The element that is missing here is that pistis also means "faithfulness" as well as faith. Pisteuo means...to be faithful...the actual verb meaning of pistis and this works along with the continuing act of believing towards salvation.

So then faith and faithfulness work together. As does the Hebrew Emounah. So these both follow the same idea...which is you don't have faith without faithfulness. Or...faith without faithfulness is dead.

It is important to realize the being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given.

Rev. 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

I like a lot what you have to say here. This is indeed the missing part in English about faith. If we truly believe, then we act according to that belief. I like to use the example that if you truly believe you are in a burning building, you'll be doing something about it!

In this part . . .

It is important to realize the being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given.

Yes, being called and chosen isn't enough, but it's not our own efforts that make for that good outcome, that is, if you refer to salvation itself. God's grace is what is needed. Our relationship with God, in it's entirety, is in Christ, and His finished work.

Those filled with faith will be those who fulfill that faith, as faith without works is dead. You don't work yourself into a faith that you don't have.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I like a lot what you have to say here. This is indeed the missing part in English about faith. If we truly believe, then we act according to that belief. I like to use the example that if you truly believe you are in a burning building, you'll be doing something about it!

In this part . . .

It is important to realize the being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given.

Yes, being called and chosen isn't enough, but it's not our own efforts that make for that good outcome, that is, if you refer to salvation itself. God's grace is what is needed. Our relationship with God, in it's entirety, is in Christ, and His finished work.

Those filled with faith will be those who fulfill that faith, as faith without works is dead. You don't work yourself into a faith that you don't have.

Much love!

We won't be judged by what we have been given...but what we have done with it. So we will be judged AGAINST what we have been given. This whole idea of many modern bible readers with their fear of a salvation that actually works is the sign of the times.

We will only be judged by our works. No other judgment exists...and this is very dishonestly ignored in favour of a misunderstanding of what grace is.

And we will ALL pass before the tribunal of Christ to give an account for every word and deed.

They who don't tremble with fear have no idea what they are in for. There will be weeping and anger among the self-appointed "saved" of today.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I like a lot what you have to say here. This is indeed the missing part in English about faith. If we truly believe, then we act according to that belief. I like to use the example that if you truly believe you are in a burning building, you'll be doing something about it!

In this part . . .

It is important to realize the being called and chosen are not enough to have a good outcome for the believer. One must also prove to be faithful....a faithful steward of what one has been given.

Yes, being called and chosen isn't enough, but it's not our own efforts that make for that good outcome, that is, if you refer to salvation itself. God's grace is what is needed. Our relationship with God, in it's entirety, is in Christ, and His finished work.

Those filled with faith will be those who fulfill that faith, as faith without works is dead. You don't work yourself into a faith that you don't have.

Much love!

Amen true faith works, but works have no bearing on ones salvation

works are a byproduct of receiving the love of Christ (salvation)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We won't be judged by what we have been given...but what we have done with it. So we will be judged AGAINST what we have been given. This whole idea of many modern bible readers with their fear of a salvation that actually works is the sign of the times.

We will only be judged by our works. No other judgment exists...and this is very dishonestly ignored in favour of a misunderstanding of what grace is.

And we will ALL pass before the tribunal of Christ to give an account for every word and deed.

They who don't tremble with fear have no idea what they are in for. There will be weeping and anger among the self-appointed "saved" of today.

Death Hades will be judged and found lacking, because they rejected the gift of salvation

children will be judged with gold silver precious stone wood hay straw. And even if all their works are burned, they will still be saved

 

[marks]

Pistis is the exact origin of where we get our English word "Faith."
By my count you agree with no.2 and that's it. These aren't my opinions, they are easily validated facts. If you don't agree with them , you must have a reason to not accept these facts.

So let's look at fact 1. Pistis is the Greek word where our English word Faith comes from.

Do you agree?

Faith is from the Latin, Fides.

So no, I don't agree with #1. And the yes, you are right, the facts are easily validated.

 

[marks]

We will only be judged by our works. No other judgment exists...and this is very dishonestly ignored in favour of a misunderstanding of what grace is.

And we will ALL pass before the tribunal of Christ to give an account for every word and deed.

Yes, we will be judged for our works, everyone will be.

But what exactly is the dishonesty you keep talking about? There doesn't seem to me to be anyone saying that we won't be judged for our works.

This whole idea of many modern bible readers with their fear of a salvation that actually works is the sign of the times

Afraid of salvation that bears fruit, is that what you mean?

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

Faithfulness is a different word. Although yes it does have the same root word.

your back door attempt to try to insert works to salvation is failing.

This is what happens when people try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith. They try to re-interpret salvation through faith to accommodate salvation by faith + works. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23).

Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible: Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. There seems to be a push in certain circles (typically works-salvation oriented circles) to redefine the word "faith" as we know it in our Bibles to mean "faithfulness." The Bible clearly states that we are justified through "faith," yet others will try to tell us that we need to understand this means we are justified based on the merits of our personal "faithfulness" in regards to our performance. Faithfulness has to do with how reliable or trustworthy we are, which can fluctuate. Faith has to do with how reliable and trustworthy the object is that I am believing in.

Changing our understanding from "faith" to "faithfulness" can affect the meaning of the gospel. This is not a small matter. To say that we are saved through personal faithfulness, in regards to performing specific tasks faithfully is different than saying we are saved through faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The former makes it a self focused salvation that is about our own reliability and works, while the latter is Christ focused salvation that is about looking away from self and trusting in Christ's reliability and finished work of redemption. The Greek word pistis is the word we translate as "faith" and primarily means persuasion, conviction, trust and reliance, though secondarily it can mean "faithfulness". There is another Greek word which primarily means "faithfulness."

 

[Faither]

Faith is from the Latin, Fides.

So no, I don't agree with #1. And the yes, you are right, the facts are easily validated.

If your suggesting the English language was derived from the Latin, we can't go any further.

See how that works. No agreement, no further discussion.

 

[Faither]

Anyone else?
O for 5!

 

[Faither]

Got to start by learning the basics! From the beginning!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If your suggesting the English language was derived from the Latin, we can't go any further.

See how that works. No agreement, no further discussion.

That’s now 4 people who answered your questions. Yet you failed to answer theirs. Then said your done

this is dishonest and unchtistlike

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Got to start by learning the basics! From the beginning!

Practice what you preach

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Anyone else?
O for 5!

I think you lost the right to discuss with anyone. Let alone closed the door to
Any discussions

all your discussions are one way

 

[Faither]

It's just a byproduct of being self taught without basic foundational understood first.

For those like this, they are still called, they are still being drawn. Just got to humble themselves to God and the truth.