Not by works - but by faith

[Faither]

lol What is that song...A closer walk with thee

Everything in Christ is paradoxical. The closer I am to Him, the further away I feel.

Paradox explained: The further away we feel in this temporal world, the more we surrender and trust in Him. Being closer to Him in the eternal world, is the direct result of a Continually surrendered life and trusting that it's His life now, not ours anymore.

 

[Grailhunter]

Everything in Christ is paradoxical. The closer I am to Him, the further away I feel.

Paradox explained: The further away we feel in this temporal world, the more we surrender and trust in Him. Being closer to Him in the eternal world, is the direct result of a Continually surrendered life and trusting that it's His life now, not ours anymore.

Very good

 

[FollowHim]

Everything in Christ is paradoxical. The closer I am to Him, the further away I feel.

Paradox explained: The further away we feel in this temporal world, the more we surrender and trust in Him. Being closer to Him in the eternal world, is the direct result of a Continually surrendered life and trusting that it's His life now, not ours anymore.

I do not understand this perspective
My experience is the more I walk in love and life with Jesus, the closer I am to Him.

Jesus declared sins forgiven. He meant it What most confuse with sin is their inner life and emotional turmoil.

I know this turmoil having daughter's angry at me. To stick with certain principles you have to be straight.

Being brave, knowing the foundations matter, and getting it right, but not "perfect". Perfection for God is different. He blesses sinner and Saint alike. He waits for reality and truth to dawn, only at the end does it become shown.

 

[FollowHim]

"You did good"
Fools declare it is wrong to know God's encouragement and blessings.

But scripture is full of it for the righteous, those who love God and follow His ways.

Jesus was encouraged by the Father at His baptism and the transfiguration

God is a God of purity and holiness, cleansing and light. Miss this and you do not know Jesus. The cross is the start of the way of repentance, confession, love and faith.

Many claim to know this but their words and lives declare they do not, literally, all the time. Rather than breaking and reaching out to Jesus who promises this, they attack Jesus's followers in anger and bitterness, which never goes away

 

[Faither]

I do not understand this perspective
My experience is the more I walk in love and life with Jesus, the closer I am to Him.

Jesus declared sins forgiven. He meant it What most confuse with sin is their inner life and emotional turmoil.

I know this turmoil having daughter's angry at me. To stick with certain principles you have to be straight.

Being brave, knowing the foundations matter, and getting it right, but not "perfect". Perfection for God is different. He blesses sinner and Saint alike. He waits for reality and truth to dawn, only at the end does it become shown.

Not many people understand the paradoxes of God, even though as Christians we accept the biggest paradox going out the gate.
Christ was 100% God and 100% man at the same time, all the time.
All of God's deeper truths are paradoxes.

 

[RogerDC]

Our encounter is with Jesus and anointed with the Holy Spirit through repentance and faith in the Cross.

Repentance is works, so you're preaching salvation through faith and works - which is fine by me, coz we are not saved by faith alone.

James 2:24 says "a man is justified by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". By "works" means keeping God's commandments, which includes repentance.

Abiding in Christ will always produce fruit, while not abiding in Him and His word, will destroy and kill whatever life that appears.

Abiding in Christ means keeping his commandments, as 1John says ... as does Jesus, who said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14:15). Faith plus works, in other words.

 

[Faither]

Repentance is works, so you're preaching salvation through faith and works - which is fine by me, coz we are not saved by faith alone.

James 2:24 says "a man is justified by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". By "works" means keeping God's commandments, which includes repentance.

Abiding in Christ means keeping his commandments, as 1John says ... as does Jesus, who said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14:15). Faith plus works, in other words.

Faith and faithing aren't "works", Faith and faithing are "work"!
Faith, " Pistis" applied is " pisteuo."
"Pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

So the " work" involved in the application of Faith relating to the living God is 95% courage, and 4% endurance, and 1% everything else. It's making all the dozens of daily decisions that support the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but God's now!

Keeping God's laws " or commandments " by our own will is not saving Faith. I guess one could try. But only one person was able to do it, and that was Christ. Remember, to keep the law, one must keep all the law 100% of the time. Not even having a thought that would break one of them, ever! If one part of God's law is broken for just a millisecond, all are broken.

The law is fulfilled once our surrendered life results in recieving the Spirit of Christ. When we receive the Spirit of Christ, we receive Christ. When we receive Christ, we are seen by the Father as Christ. We are cloaked with Christ, law perfectly fulfilled!

 

[FollowHim]

Faith and faithing aren't "works", Faith and faithing are "work"!
Faith, " Pistis" applied is " pisteuo."
"Pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

So the " work" involved in the application of Faith relating to the living God is 95% courage, and 4% endurance, and 1% everything else. It's making all the dozens of daily decisions that support the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but God's now!

Keeping God's laws " or commandments " by our own will is not saving Faith. I guess one could try. But only one person was able to do it, and that was Christ. Remember, to keep the law, one must keep all the law 100% of the time. Not even having a thought that would break one of them, ever! If one part of God's law is broken for just a millisecond, all are broken.

The law is fulfilled once our surrendered life results in recieving the Spirit of Christ. When we receive the Spirit of Christ, we receive Christ. When we receive Christ, we are seen by the Father as Christ. We are cloaked with Christ, law perfectly fulfilled!

This is a description of Christ dying for us, so that though we are sinners we are regarded as righteous.

This is one interpretation of scripture. In the temple the idea of being made holy by purification, washing in water, was something everyone knew about. One was not covered by the water, but cleansed by the water.

So the idea that God sees Christ and not the sinner is not a biblical idea. Making something holy is, or making restitution so the guilty might be forgiven and set free. The simple point is Jesus came so that we might be like Him, walking in purity and holiness just as Paul experienced.

It is difficult to get around, Paul, Peter, James, John believed in Holiness and being Holy. And this holiness is purchased by the cross but it is also real and reflected in ones life. It is the difference between letting a murderer go to murder again, or letting a murderer go because they are now a loving kind caring individual who would not commit another murder.

One way of testing theology is pushing it to its limits. So do we believe in babies being tortured in the lake of fire for all eternity?
Do we believe a believer can murder, without repentance and cleansing and still be acceptable to God?

Equally is speeding or breaking man made rules equivalent to sin? Is not reaching ones own expectations and being hard on oneself the same as God being hard on us, and excluding us from the Kingdom?

God accepted Samson and David who both failed but repented, but at their core believed and loved God.
Salvation is this dynamic conversation with God, walking in the light, and working with our issues daily.
I cannot say who has or has not gained things in general, but a believer who does not love does not know God.

 

[Faither]

This is a description of Christ dying for us, so that though we are sinners we are regarded as righteous.

This is one interpretation of scripture. In the temple the idea of being made holy by purification, washing in water, was something everyone knew about. One was not covered by the water, but cleansed by the water.

So the idea that God sees Christ and not the sinner is not a biblical idea. Making something holy is, or making restitution so the guilty might be forgiven and set free. The simple point is Jesus came so that we might be like Him, walking in purity and holiness just as Paul experienced.

It is difficult to get around, Paul, Peter, James, John believed in Holiness and being Holy. And this holiness is purchased by the cross but it is also real and reflected in ones life. It is the difference between letting a murderer go to murder again, or letting a murderer go because they are now a loving kind caring individual who would not commit another murder.

One way of testing theology is pushing it to its limits. So do we believe in babies being tortured in the lake of fire for all eternity?
Do we believe a believer can murder, without repentance and cleansing and still be acceptable to God?

Equally is speeding or breaking man made rules equivalent to sin? Is not reaching ones own expectations and being hard on oneself the same as God being hard on us, and excluding us from the Kingdom?

God accepted Samson and David who both failed but repented, but at their core believed and loved God.
Salvation is this dynamic conversation with God, walking in the light, and working with our issues daily.
I cannot say who has or has not gained things in general, but a believer who does not love does not know God.

No such thing as a " believer ". That word is a mistranslation.

 

[Faither]

This is a description of Christ dying for us, so that though we are sinners we are regarded as righteous.

This is one interpretation of scripture. In the temple the idea of being made holy by purification, washing in water, was something everyone knew about. One was not covered by the water, but cleansed by the water.

So the idea that God sees Christ and not the sinner is not a biblical idea. Making something holy is, or making restitution so the guilty might be forgiven and set free. The simple point is Jesus came so that we might be like Him, walking in purity and holiness just as Paul experienced.

It is difficult to get around, Paul, Peter, James, John believed in Holiness and being Holy. And this holiness is purchased by the cross but it is also real and reflected in ones life. It is the difference between letting a murderer go to murder again, or letting a murderer go because they are now a loving kind caring individual who would not commit another murder.

One way of testing theology is pushing it to its limits. So do we believe in babies being tortured in the lake of fire for all eternity?
Do we believe a believer can murder, without repentance and cleansing and still be acceptable to God?

Equally is speeding or breaking man made rules equivalent to sin? Is not reaching ones own expectations and being hard on oneself the same as God being hard on us, and excluding us from the Kingdom?

God accepted Samson and David who both failed but repented, but at their core believed and loved God.
Salvation is this dynamic conversation with God, walking in the light, and working with our issues daily.
I cannot say who has or has not gained things in general, but a believer who does not love does not know God.

Not a biblical idea? Did you think before you said that?

God's ways, starting with the Jewish people and how their sins were covered? The temple, the curtain, the blood put on every utensil. The Scriptures are nothing but types and shadows of Christ, things to come!

This is the problem that happens when we don't learn about the paradoxical understandings of God's ways.

 

[RogerDC]

Not a biblical idea? Did you think before you said that?

God's ways, starting with the Jewish people and how their sins were covered? The temple, the curtain, the blood put on every utensil. The Scriptures are nothing but types and shadows of Christ, things to come!

This is the problem that happens when we don't learn about the paradoxical understandings of God's ways.

Are you saying if a Christian has faith, he can lie, steal and murder and still make it to Heaven?

 

[Faither]

Are you saying if a Christian has faith, he can lie, steal and murder and still make it to Heaven?

A true Christian doesn't think about " making it to heaven."
A surrendered life, isn't a true surrender if we're expecting something in return for the surrender. That would be some kind of business deal or vending machine kind of process.

When Faith applied, or the continually surrendered life results in recieving the Spirit of Christ, we are sanctified. Sanctification simply means to be separated from. In the case of the one who has received the Spirit of Christ, he had been separated from his sinful nature. That doesn't mean the sinful nature is powerless.

When we are sanctified, there are 3 parts. Our Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the sinful nature. The Scriptures specifically give us the description of the Spirit of Christ and the sinful nature engaged in trench warfare over our soul. We are merely onlookers, with only the power to choose which one we will surrender ourselves to. Which one we'll give power to.

So as Paul says in Rom. 7:14-21, when I do what I don't want to do , it's not me doing it but sin dwelling in me that's doing it. And, the same thing is true when we do something we "do" want to do, it's not us doing it, but the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us doing it.

 

[FollowHim]

Not a biblical idea? Did you think before you said that?

God's ways, starting with the Jewish people and how their sins were covered? The temple, the curtain, the blood put on every utensil. The Scriptures are nothing but types and shadows of Christ, things to come!

This is the problem that happens when we don't learn about the paradoxical understandings of God's ways.

The concept of covering rather than cleansing needs biblical support.

Sacrifice for sin is about atonement, with future behaviour expected to be righteous and good.

The curtain being removed is about the in dwelling Holy Spirit in the temple of our hearts. Sin is forgiven and forgotten but only because of righteous behaviour.

Some argue the new covenant is different, but actually it is the fulfillment of the old by walking with love in our hearts. Jesus made the difference showing who and how God works with man.

 

[mailmandan]

No such thing as a "believer". That word is a mistranslation.

Completely false. No such thing as "faithing" which is a made up word. Even when I spell it out, spell check changes it to "farthing." The word "believer" is Biblical.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (KJV)

1 Timothy 4:12 - Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. (KJV)

Acts 5:14 - And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number. (NASB)

Acts 10:45 - All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)

Acts 16:1 - Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. (NASB)

2 Corinthians 6:15 - Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? (NASB)

1 Thessalonians 1:7 - so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. (NASB)

When I typed in "faithing" in the Bible search online I received this below:

Oops!
Oops! It looks like we couldn't find any matching faithing. Try refining your search terms.

 

[Faither]

The concept of covering rather than cleansing needs biblical support.

Sacrifice for sin is about atonement, with future behaviour expected to be righteous and good.

The curtain being removed is about the in dwelling Holy Spirit in the temple of our hearts. Sin is forgiven and forgotten but only because of righteous behaviour.

Some argue the new covenant is different, but actually it is the fulfillment of the old by walking with love in our hearts. Jesus made the difference showing who and how God works with man.

My only reply would've good luck with that.

 

[Faither]

Completely false. No such thing as "faithing" which is a made up word. Even when I spell it out, spell check changes it to "farthing." The word "believer" is Biblical.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (KJV)

1 Timothy 4:12 - Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. (KJV)

Acts 5:14 - And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number. (NASB)

Acts 10:45 - All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)

Acts 16:1 - Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. (NASB)

2 Corinthians 6:15 - Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? (NASB)

1 Thessalonians 1:7 - so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. (NASB)

When I typed in "faithing" in the Bible search online I received this below:

Oops!
Oops! It looks like we couldn't find any matching faithing. Try refining your search terms.

Strong's : "Pisteuo means NOT just to believe!"

 

[Faither]

Completely false. No such thing as "faithing" which is a made up word. Even when I spell it out, spell check changes it to "farthing." The word "believer" is Biblical.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (KJV)

1 Timothy 4:12 - Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. (KJV)

Acts 5:14 - And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number. (NASB)

Acts 10:45 - All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)

Acts 16:1 - Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. (NASB)

2 Corinthians 6:15 - Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? (NASB)

1 Thessalonians 1:7 - so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. (NASB)

When I typed in "faithing" in the Bible search online I received this below:

Oops!
Oops! It looks like we couldn't find any matching faithing. Try refining your search terms.

Vines : " pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation of truth."

No mention of " believing. " It's a mistranslation of the word pisteuo. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis.

Of course, Google will support your understanding. Don't be lazy, do the years and years of study and learning.

 

[mailmandan]

Strong's : "Pisteuo means NOT just to believe!"

I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, (READ THE REST) but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. So saving belief in Christ includes confidence in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and not just mere "mental assent" belief.

Now depending on the CONTEXT, Pisteuo can mean just to believe. *In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/confidence/trust/reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. Their confidence/trust/reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. *Keep in mind the Greek for "believe" in James 2:19 is Pisteuo.

 

[mailmandan]

Vines: " pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation of truth."

No mention of " believing. " It's a mistranslation of the word pisteuo. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis.

Of course, Google will support your understanding. Don't be lazy, do the years and years of study and learning.

John 1:12 is attached with "a personal surrender to Him" in Vine's definition. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. There is the personal surrender to Him. When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him, resulting in justification (Romans 5:1) and that is the ROOT of salvation.

The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS and produces good works would be the FRUIT. You are misusing the Vines to mix cause with effect and the end result is salvation by works.

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4100 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pisteuo from (4102)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pisteuo 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pist-yoo'-o Verb
Definition

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

NAS Word Usage - Total: 243
believe 118, believed 73, believers 3, believes 29, believing 10, do 1, entrust 1, entrusted 6, entrusting 1, has faith 1

Pisteuo Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

It doesn't take years of study to figure this out, but only to explain it away.

 

[Faither]

John 1:12 is attached with "a personal surrender to Him" in Vine's definition. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. There is the personal surrender to Him. When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him, resulting in justification (Romans 5:1) and that is the ROOT of salvation.

The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS and produces good works would be the FRUIT. You are misusing the Vines to mix cause with effect and the end result is salvation by works.

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4100 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pisteuo from (4102)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pisteuo 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pist-yoo'-o Verb
Definition

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

NAS Word Usage - Total: 243
believe 118, believed 73, believers 3, believes 29, believing 10, do 1, entrust 1, entrusted 6, entrusting 1, has faith 1

Pisteuo Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

It doesn't take years of study to figure this out, but only to explain it away.

Then my reply is good luck to you!