We are called to be Overcomers, everyday.
And those of us who know the word, And have faith, Do overcome.
AlanforChrist said,
Don't allow yourself to be so easily misled.
The truth is...
The word "elect", always refers to Christians in the New Testament and never to Jews or non-Christian Jews.
The word elect is Strong's # 1588 which means...
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
The word is the same word as chosen and is used in the following verses where it always means Christians... whether Jew or gentile!
Matthew 20:16
John 13:18, 15:16
Acts 15:22, 15:25
Romans 8:33, 16:13
1 Corinthians 1:27-28
Ephesians 1:4
Colossians 3:12
James 2:5
2 Timothy 2:10
Titus 1:1
1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13 and,
Revelation 17:14
If God wanted the elect of Mathew 24 to mean Jews He would have used a different Greek word other than 'eklektos'!
Probably one of these...
1445.
Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from 1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.
1675.
Hellenistes hel-lay-nis-tace' from a derivative of 1672; a Hellenist or Greek-speaking Jew:--Grecian.
2453.
Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah:--Jew(-ess), of Judaea.
The bible does teach a harvest from he who sits upon the clouds at the seventh and last trump!
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 ¶And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Alan also said,
It doesn't? Seems to me you've been drinking the pretribulational kool-aid!
What does this say...
2 Thessalonians 2:1 ¶Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
The word coming is 'parousia' and take a look at what it means...
1)
presence
2)
the coming, arrival, advent
a)
the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God
There's not one verse of prophecy that say's Christ returns 'BEFORE" tribulation for any reason but many that say he returns after the tribulation just as Jesus said Himself...
"And immediately after the tribulation of those days...he will send his angels with a great trumpet, and they will gather his elect out of the four winds from the extremities of the skies unto their extremities"(Matthew 24:29-31).
I'm going to stop here because of the endless fabrications, contradictions, and complications of pretribulationism. It's not worth the time to try to change the mind of any Christian who drinks pre-trib 'kool-aid'!
I've said this before...
There are three types of Christians.
The first group is those who believe what they are told to believe and never question it. Some Christians just accept what the denomination or the pastors teach and simply accept it no questions asked. They feel that they are the experts on the subject and just accept their teachings.
The second group contains those who believe whatever they want to believe regardless of the scriptural evidence. You and many others on this forum are part of that group. Thay typically don't have a hermeneutic and have accepted the research of others and have done their own 'biased' research. By those preconceived ideas they've come up with their own doctrines and prophecy beliefs regardless of the scriptural evidence....and refuse to change their minds! That's how people come up with pretribulationism and beliefs like "America is Babylon," or "Rome is Babylon," or "Mitt Romney is the anti-christ," or "a global dictator" and "a one world religion!"
The third group is made up of those who seek truth and are willing to change their mind regardless of what the truth is or where it may be found. You, as well as most people on this forum are part of the second group who believes what you do regardless of the evidence.
I disagree with the OP. It's my view that the tribulation period will be a time of growing faith in the church!
[1]If you knew the Bible, You would know there is the elect Jews and the elect Church.
The Elect Jews.
Matt 24: 22. Mk 13: 20, This cannot be talking about the Elect Church, As they don't go through the tribulation.
Rom 11:5.
Matt 24: 31, Both the elect Jews and the elect Church.
Rom 11: 28 makes a definate distinction between the elect Jews and the elect Church.
To say,
"If God wanted the elect of Mathew 24 to mean Jews He would have used a different Greek word other than 'eklektos"',
Is pure speculation.
[2]Rev 14: 12, Is talking about those who die during the tribulation period, NOT THE CHURCH.
[3]Of cause 2 Thess 2, is talking about the "'parousia", The coming of the Lord, It is a two part comming, The first part is the pre-trib rapture, The secons part is the physical comming to reign,
At the pre-trib rapture, The saints are taken to heaven, And at the physicl comming of Jesus, His saints are coming from heaven.
1 Thess 2: 1, Is the physical comming of Jesus, When He returns to reign,
And v3 tells us that, that day, [The day of Christ's physical comming] Will not happen until the pre-trib rapture, Then after the Church has gone to heaven,the anti-christ comes.
The reason Paul wrote the letter to the Church in 2 Thess 2, Was because some of your buch was around, Telling them that the Church has to go through the tribulation period,
So Paul wrote to them to encourage them by telling them they will go before the anti-christ can come and start the tribulation.
[4]Of cause ther are verses that prove Jesus comes before the tribulation period., He comes to rapture His people.
Matt 25: 1--10, The marrige is in heaven during the tribulation.
Jn 14: 1--3. When Jesus comes back physically, No one will be going to heaven, We will reign with Him ON THE EARTH.
So Jn 14: 1--3 is talikg about Jesus coming to take His people to heaven for the tribulation period.
! Thess 4: 17, Is the pre-trib rapture, V18 is the confort of not going through the tribulation.
Chapter 5: 3, Is the tribulation.
V9 says we aren't appointed unto wrath, But to be delivered from it.
As for the three goups of Christians that you mentioned, You are in the first two groups.
And those of us who know the word, And have faith, Do overcome.
[1]If you knew the Bible, You would know there is the elect Jews and the elect Church.
The Elect Jews.
Matt 24: 22. Mk 13: 20, This cannot be talking about the Elect Church, As they don't go through the tribulation.
Rom 11:5.
Matt 24: 31, Both the elect Jews and the elect Church.
Rom 11: 28 makes a definate distinction between the elect Jews and the elect Church.
To say,
"If God wanted the elect of Mathew 24 to mean Jews He would have used a different Greek word other than 'eklektos"',
Is pure speculation.
[2]Rev 14: 12, Is talking about those who die during the tribulation period, NOT THE CHURCH.
[3]Of cause 2 Thess 2, is talking about the "'parousia", The coming of the Lord, It is a two part comming, The first part is the pre-trib rapture, The secons part is the physical comming to reign,
At the pre-trib rapture, The saints are taken to heaven, And at the physicl comming of Jesus, His saints are coming from heaven.
1 Thess 2: 1, Is the physical comming of Jesus, When He returns to reign,
And v3 tells us that, that day, [The day of Christ's physical comming] Will not happen until the pre-trib rapture, Then after the Church has gone to heaven,the anti-christ comes.
The reason Paul wrote the letter to the Church in 2 Thess 2, Was because some of your buch was around, Telling them that the Church has to go through the tribulation period,
So Paul wrote to them to encourage them by telling them they will go before the anti-christ can come and start the tribulation.
[4]Of cause ther are verses that prove Jesus comes before the tribulation period., He comes to rapture His people.
Matt 25: 1--10, The marrige is in heaven during the tribulation.
Jn 14: 1--3. When Jesus comes back physically, No one will be going to heaven, We will reign with Him ON THE EARTH.
So Jn 14: 1--3 is talikg about Jesus coming to take His people to heaven for the tribulation period.
! Thess 4: 17, Is the pre-trib rapture, V18 is the confort of not going through the tribulation.
Chapter 5: 3, Is the tribulation.
V9 says we aren't appointed unto wrath, But to be delivered from it.
As for the three groups of Christians that you mentioned, You are in the first two groups.
