Number of His Name

[archierieus]

(kriss;57648)
Practice what you preach I can and have provided nothing but scripture all you keep saying is you are right without a single scripture to back your claim and mans words
You have quoted Scriptures, however they most certanly do not support your position statement, that the Antichrist is Satan. You have taken a prophecy which pertains to the king of Tyre, some portions of which also refer to Satan. You have attempted to portray Satan as the king of Tyre!! And, you assert that since the English word 'man,' translated from the Hebrew, occurs in one verse of that dual application prophecy, then Satan must be a man!!!! Please do provide exegetical support and citations of competent authorities in support of your assertion.You go on, however, claiming that since the English word 'man' occurs in one verse of the Ezekiel prophecy, THEREFORE Paul's reference to the 'man of sin,' written in koine Greek by a different author, different time period, different language, etc., corresponds with the occurrence of the English word 'man' in the verse in Ezekiel.Do you seriously call that exegesis? Credible work product? But, if so, let's see some peer review and documentation, citations of credible authority. Looking forward to that. Incidentally, that would NOT be commentaries or homiletic compendiums. A good starting point, readily accessible, could be NIDOTTE (New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, e. Wm. van Gemeren) or Koehler-Baumgartner's Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon. What do you find there?Dave

 

[tomwebster]

Dave, just wait a few years, you'll see who antichrist is. You might be worshipping him. But you will not know it until it's too late.

 

[Christina]

archierieusDid you do a study on the names if Satan? No,where does the subject of the king/prince of tyre change it is most clearly is Satan and yes I say thats exactly what Isa14 says and Rev and 2 Thess. And it is what was taught before St Augustine changed it. So yeah I believe the Word and where are all your scriptures proving that the pope is Antichrist again you deny scripture to follow mens lies, with nothing but words

 

[Jordan]

I wish people stop saying that the pope is THE AntiChrist because it's not. The pope is a human. A human can not make everybody worship a false god. Only Satan (Lucifer / Lucy) the fallen yet most beautiful angel can do that. *sigh*

 

[Christina]

(archierieus;57686)
You have quoted Scriptures, however they most certanly do not support your position statement, that the Antichrist is Satan. You have taken a prophecy which pertains to the king of Tyre, some portions of which also refer to Satan. You have attempted to portray Satan as the king of Tyre!! And, you assert that since the English word 'man,' translated from the Hebrew, occurs in one verse of that dual application prophecy, then Satan must be a man!!!! Please do provide exegetical support and citations of competent authorities in support of your assertion.You go on, however, claiming that since the English word 'man' occurs in one verse of the Ezekiel prophecy, THEREFORE Paul's reference to the 'man of sin,' written in koine Greek by a different author, different time period, different language, etc., corresponds with the occurrence of the English word 'man' in the verse in Ezekiel.Do you seriously call that exegesis? Credible work product? But, if so, let's see some peer review and documentation, citations of credible authority. Looking forward to that. Incidentally, that would NOT be commentaries or homiletic compendiums. A good starting point, readily accessible, could be NIDOTTE (New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, e. Wm. van Gemeren) or Koehler-Baumgartner's Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon. What do you find there?Dave
To be honest if you do not get these scripures are about Satan,the devil ,Lucifer,then you have no understanding at all of how to rightly divide the Word or study subject and object so it does not surprise me you think the Pope is antichrist if you cant get a even few verse's of Gods Word. One would have no choice but to let men explain it to you. I would hope even though you dont agree with me you stick around and learn how to study 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. This is Satans desire he wants to be God, he was filled with pride says vI will be like the most high 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. He is going to be brought down, to the pit now who does God say at the End of this age will be thrown in the pit?16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; What man?Satan is a angel, He will appear as a man to the world so the people ask the question is this the man (Antichrist) 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? Start by asking yourself this questions when did Satan ever make the World a wilderness, destroy the cities,make the earth tremble ?The answer he hasnt yet so when does the earth the earth tremble? during the tribulation is the answer. Now what are we told about Satan during the tribulation Rev 12

 

[archierieus]

(kriss;57712)
To be honest if you do not get these scripures are about Satan,the devil ,Lucifer,then you have no understanding at all of how to rightly divide the Word or study subject and object so it does not surprise me you think the Pope is antichrist if you cant get a even few verse's of Gods Word. One would have no choice but to let men explain it to you. I would hope even though you dont agree with me you stick around and learn how to study
You, as a global moderator, say things like that to members of this forum? I thought a moderator was supposed to be neutral, and supportive of the free exchange of ideas. As for 'learning how to study,' do you consider the work product you have presented on these threads to be the right way to 'study'? Are you to any extent familiar with principles of textual exegesis?
now who does God say at the End of this age will be thrown in the pit?
Please give a New Testament reference. Do you find one in Revelation?
What man?Satan is a angel, He will appear as a man to the world so the people ask the question is this the man (Antichrist)
You here engage in circular reasoning--using the interpretation you wish to prove, to establish your interpretation. You are using an assumption which has not yet been validated, to prove your interpretation!
during the tribulation is the answer.
That is YOUR answer, not the Bible's answer. You are correct when you note that this condition of the earth has not yet occurred. You are NOT correct when you assume it occurs during the so-called 'tribulation.' You seem to be relying on futurism here, in contradistinction to the understanding of Reformation scholarship.
Now what are we told about Satan during the tribulation Rev 12
Revelation 12 records the attacks of the 'dragon,' 'that old serpent, the devil' upon Christ's church. It covers the timespan of Christ's earthly life, and continues after Christ's ascension. The place of refuge which God had prepared for His faithful people during the great persecution of the Dark Ages, is described. This was fulfilled as the Church of Rome acquired earthly power and began persecuting 'dissenters.' The faithful fled to the safety of the Alps in Italy and France. The papacy repeatedly sent armies (a 'flood') after them, but God repeatedly delivered them, many times through miraculous means. The time period corresponds with the rein of terror of the medieval papacy, 1260 years, 538 to 1798 A.D. At the end of that time, God's church came out from hiding, and the Great Awakening occurred, Bible societies were begun, the great missionary movement inaugurated.The time referred to in Ezekiel is also described in Jeremiah, when the earth trembles, all is in ruins, and there is no one living on this earth. That is during the 1,000 years when the saints reign and judge with Christ in heaven. At the end of that time, the Holy City comes down to this earth (Rev. 21:1,2) and God makes all things new, with sin and sinners forever destroyed.Incidentally, I sincerely hope that any moderators responding to this post will exercise courtesy and respect toward members of this forum. Discourtesy and disrespect, apart from being unacceptable, quite often belie ignorance of the subject as well.Dave

 

[Jordan]

When it comes to dealing with the Word of God, which there is only 2 sides...There is no such thing as neutral. In fact there is no middle ground. Geez, all I see men's guesswork. *sigh*John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.II Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[archierieus]

(thesuperjag;57777)
When it comes to dealing with the Word of God, which there is only 2 sides...There is no such thing as neutral. In fact there is no middle ground.
Two sides? As for that, how would you know which 'side' is the 'right' side? By what the Bible says? How would you know what the Bible says? By how you feel 'led' or 'impressed'? What if someone else feels 'led' to a different understanding? Are they on the 'wrong side' then? On the other hand, what if that someone else can point the way to a clearer, more accurate understanding of 'truth' according to the Bible?
Geez, all I see men's guesswork. *sigh*
Some of the ideas and notions presented on this thread and in particular on the Israel-Europe thread are very definitely 'men's guesswork.' what makes it so dangerous is the insistence that such guesswork is in fact 'truth,' which it is not.Dave

 

[Christina]

(archierieus;57776)
You, as a global moderator, say things like that to members of this forum? I thought a moderator was supposed to be neutral, and supportive of the free exchange of ideas. As for 'learning how to study,' do you consider the work product you have presented on these threads to be the right way to 'study'? Are you to any extent familiar with principles of textual exegesis? Please give a New Testament reference. Do you find one in Revelation?You here engage in circular reasoning--using the interpretation you wish to prove, to establish your interpretation. You are using an assumption which has not yet been validated, to prove your interpretation! That is YOUR answer, not the Bible's answer. You are correct when you note that this condition of the earth has not yet occurred. You are NOT correct when you assume it occurs during the so-called 'tribulation.' You seem to be relying on futurism here, in contradistinction to the understanding of Reformation scholarship.Revelation 12 records the attacks of the 'dragon,' 'that old serpent, the devil' upon Christ's church. It covers the timespan of Christ's earthly life, and continues after Christ's ascension. The place of refuge which God had prepared for His faithful people during the great persecution of the Dark Ages, is described. This was fulfilled as the Church of Rome acquired earthly power and began persecuting 'dissenters.' The faithful fled to the safety of the Alps in Italy and France. The papacy repeatedly sent armies (a 'flood') after them, but God repeatedly delivered them, many times through miraculous means. The time period corresponds with the rein of terror of the medieval papacy, 1260 years, 538 to 1798 A.D. At the end of that time, God's church came out from hiding, and the Great Awakening occurred, Bible societies were begun, the great missionary movement inaugurated.The time referred to in Ezekiel is also described in Jeremiah, when the earth trembles, all is in ruins, and there is no one living on this earth. That is during the 1,000 years when the saints reign and judge with Christ in heaven. At the end of that time, the Holy City comes down to this earth (Rev. 21:1,2) and God makes all things new, with sin and sinners forever destroyed.Incidentally, I sincerely hope that any moderators responding to this post will exercise courtesy and respect toward members of this forum. Discourtesy and disrespect, apart from being unacceptable, quite often belie ignorance of the subject as well. Dave
No your wrong this is a bible study site not a free exchange of mens ideas nor do we allow denomination preaching we study Gods Word.All the answers are in scripture not in mens traditions,or lies, If you do not want to study Gods word then you are in the wrong place Gods Word only says one thing we try to discover what the one thing is we are not intrested in mens ideas. And the pope being Antchrist is a mans idea then scripture taken out of context to try to make it so it is Not Gods Word.You can yell scream jump up and down whatever Gods Word never says the Pope is Antichrist. Which is why all you can do is call me wrong when you have no scripture at all There are rules and ways to study scripture laid out by God himself and if you think Rev 12 has already happened and the pope is Antchrist be my guest. But do not come to a bible study site and try to preach mens words and not expect to be called on it. If you came to study with us and learn welcome If you came to push your mens ideas perhaps this is not your place.

 

[archierieus]

All the answers are in scripture not in mens traditions,or lies,

But when a person presents his or her opinion as 'Scripture,' that is indeed presenting 'men's traditions,' your own private interpretation.

If you do not want to study Gods word then you are in the wrong place

I am very interested in studying God's Word, and doing so carefully and accurately. That does not mean that your opinion is 'God's Word.' It is your opinion. do you recognize the difference?

Gods Word only says one thing we try to discover what the one thing is we are not intrested in mens ideas.

Except that from what I have seen so far, quite often 'men's ideas' are presented as 'God's Word.'

And the pope being Antchrist is a mans idea then scripture taken out of context to try to make it so it is Not Gods Word.

The idea of the Antichrist being Satan is a man's idea, and one I have not heard before. My concern here is that you may be equating your opinion, belief or understanding with 'God's Word.' Recognize the difference.

You can yell scream jump up and down whatever Gods Word never says the Pope is Antichrist.

The Bible does not say that Satan is the Antichrist. Nowhere does it say that. That is your interpretation, man's interpretation.

Which is why all you can do is call me wrong when you have no scripture at all

I certainly do have Scripture. I have been interested to see what credible Scriptural support you can present. I did want to give your interpretation the time of day. I am still waiting to see that credible Scriptural support.

There are rules and ways to study scripture laid out by God himself

Please enumerate those 'rules and ways' here.

and if you think Rev 12 has already happened and the pope is Antchrist be my guest. But do not come to a bible study site and try to preach mens words and not expect to be called on it.

But the idea that Satan is Antichrist--which in all my life as a Christian I never heard before seeing this thread--very definitely is an opinion.

If you came to study with us and learn welcome

But if you want someone to 'learn,' then you need to present solid Scriptural teachings. You have mixed a lot of opinions in with Scripture. If you like, I can list them. And 'learning' often is a two-way street. How do you feel about that? Or do you believe you are here to teach, and we are here to learn from you?

If you came to push your mens ideas perhaps this is not your place.

Now I have a real concern. If this forum is intended as a vehicle to promote particular interpretations--for example, the 'Israel-Europe' identity idea a la Garner Ted Armstrong; and the idea that Satan is the Antichrist; and that differing understandings are 'man's ideas,' then that needs to be very clearly stated up front, before someone considers joining this forum. And it needs to be so stated in the description of the forum.I am very, very familiar with careful Bible study techniques. I have not seen them modeled consistently here. My question for you: Are you interested in serious Bible study, seeking Bible truth, or to promote a particular set of opinions and interpretations, such as the Israel-europe identity idea and the Satan-Antichrist idea? Which is it?Dave

 

[Jordan]

(archierieus;57781)
(Kriss;57779)
...All the answers are in scripture not in mens traditions,or lies,
But when a person presents his or her opinion as 'Scripture,' that is indeed presenting 'men's traditions,' your own private interpretation.II Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.Apparently talking about the pope being Anti-Christ is a private interpretation...Too bad you can't say the same with God's Words.

 

[Christina]

(archierieus;57781)
I represent no denomination. I am very, very interested in serious study of the Bible--accurate study of the Bible, "rightly dividing the Word of truth." What I have seen so far here, in many cases falls short of that standard of careful Bible study. Are you interested in serious, accurate study of the Bible?But when a person presents his or her opinion as 'Scripture,' that is indeed presenting 'men's traditions,' your own private interpretation. I am very interested in studying God's Word, and doing so carefully and accurately. That does not mean that your opinion is 'God's Word.' It is your opinion. do you recognize the difference?Except that from what I have seen so far, quite often 'men's ideas' are presented as 'God's Word.'The idea of the Antichrist being Satan is a man's idea, and one I have not heard before. My concern here is that you may be equating your opinion, belief or understanding with 'God's Word.' Recognize the difference.The Bible does not say that Satan is the Antichrist. Nowhere does it say that. That is your interpretation, man's interpretation.I certainly do have Scripture. I have been interested to see what credible Scriptural support you can present. I did want to give your interpretation the time of day. I am still waiting to see that credible Scriptural support.Please enumerate those 'rules and ways' here.But the idea that Satan is Antichrist--which in all my life as a Christian I never heard before seeing this thread--very definitely is an opinion. But if you want someone to 'learn,' then you need to present solid Scriptural teachings. You have mixed a lot of opinions in with Scripture. If you like, I can list them. And 'learning' often is a two-way street. How do you feel about that? Or do you believe you are here to teach, and we are here to learn from you?Now I have a real concern. If this forum is intended as a vehicle to promote particular interpretations--for example, the 'Israel-Europe' identity idea a la Garner Ted Armstrong; and the idea that Satan is the Antichrist; and that differing understandings are 'man's ideas,' then that needs to be very clearly stated up front, before someone considers joining this forum. And it needs to be so stated in the description of the forum.I am very, very familiar with careful Bible study techniques. I have not seen them modeled consistently here. My question for you: Are you interested in serious Bible study, seeking Bible truth, or to promote a particular set of opinions and interpretations, such as the Israel-europe identity idea and the Satan-Antichrist idea? Which is it?Dave
Well I welcome you if your words are true I am not surprised you have never heard Gods Word as he tells it there is a famine in the land Amos 8:11 it is for the true word of God in this day of men's lies and traditions and fast food religion as I call it. Its not surprising you will hear things here you have never been taught. Gods says we must study line upon line precept upon precept, he interprets his own symbols, he says there is nothing new under the sun that what happened before will happen again that all things as en-samples for us that is types, we are not to take the examples(types) of old as the final fulfillment's, because it will happen again different names different place but there is nothing new, We must also understand Hebrew figures of speech (idioms) and customs to fully understand certain things there are many different levels of teaching, the surface texts is for babes on the milk Gods says study to learn the meat of his word, these are just a few things you need to know to study correctly.Instead of arguing everything I show you in scripture forget your preconceived ideas come to it as child with no preconceived thoughts like you seeing his words for the first time.What do you have to lose? pride ego? there is no shame in realizing God is right and men were wrong you can always leave and go back to your men's ideas.

 

[Christina]

Ted Amstrong?? a fool and isnt he deadI said we teach Gods Word

 

[Christina]

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,This is at the 7th trump the second coming who does God lay hold of and bind?What 1000 years do you think this is??Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.He is thrown in the pit for 1000 years so he can deceive the nations no more now what did Isa. 14 tell you about that man that made the nations tremble?after how long?............. (the 1000 years) he woll be losed AGAINRev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.These are those that did not take the mark of the beast that overcame till the End how long to they reign with Christ ? (1000 years) Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Again the Elect the overcomers that did not take the mark are the blessed the first resurectedRev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,After the 1000 years Satan is losed again for a short time

 

[archierieus]

(thesuperjag;57782)
Apparently talking about the pope being Anti-Christ is a private interpretation...
Seeking to recognize the fulfillment of Bible prophecy is not necessarily of private interpretation. If such were the case, then ANY such effort would be 'private interpretation.' That is where careful study and peer review are helpful.But, following your line of presentation here, the idea that Satan is the Antichrist is 'private interpretation.' Why? Because nowhere in the Bible is there any verse that says Satan is the Antichrist. That is an interpretation.
Too bad you can't say the same with God's Words.
Bible prophecy deals with the future, that is, after the time the prophet wrote. Very much of prophecy deals with times after the Bible was written. Are you proposing that it is not appropriate to look for fulfillment of such prophecies?

 

[archierieus]

(kriss;57785)
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,What 1000 years do you think this is?
This is immediately following Christ's Second Coming, described in ch. 19.
He is thrown in the pit for 1000 years so he can deceive the nations no more
What is the 'pit' here described? Go to the original Word of God. Don't rely on man's translations or editions of it. The word here is 'abussos.' What is that? Where is it located? Where else in the Bible is it mentioned? NOT the 'English' word 'pit,' which translates more than one concept or location.
now what did Isa. 14 tell you about that man that made the nations tremble?
Let's take a look at the Isa. 14 passage--a very careful look:"11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."'brought down to the grave,' 'brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.'Are you aware that the Hebrew word translated in the KJV as 'hell' in fact refers to the 'grave'? You can fnd that in a Hebrew-English or English-Hebrew concordance. This is seen in this passage. Isaiah here says that Lucifer will be brought down 'to the grave,' 'to the sides of the pit.' It is a graphic description--covered with worms, it says.Now compare his end as described there, with Ezekiel 28. This passage very clearly refers to Lucifer, covering cherub in heaven before his fall. It is set apart from the first prophecy against the king of Tyre in the foregoing verses, as shown by v. 11, and here speaks of Lucifer under the figure of the king of Tyre:"11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.'Notice what will happen to Satan. He will be cast to the ground. Comparing Isa. 14, cast to the grave, cast to the sides of the pit, cast to hell, and here cast to the ground. What will happen then? God here says that a fire shall come forth from within him, and he will be burned to ashes. That is what the Bible says. This is the final end of Satan, as stated in Scripture. The 1,000 years during which Satan is bound occurs BEFORE this time, because Satan is still alive during the 1,000 years. After that time, fire comes forth from within him and he is burned to ashes, as the Bible says. Although the general English word 'pit' is used in several places in the Bible, different concepts are represented in the original. The 'bottomless pit' (abussos) in Rev. 20 is different from the 'grave' described in Isa. 14 and Eze. 28, and translated there, 'grave,' 'hell,' 'sides of the pit.'Dave

 

[archierieus]

(kriss;57783)
Its not surprising you will hear things here you have never been taught.
A couple of Mormon missionaries wanted to sell me on their message recently. They said they were looking for people who are willing to recceive the message they have from God. My response to them is what I say to anyone who has something to present: 'Show me from the Bible.' They could not, and they left. New ideas are to be carefully compared with Scripture.
Gods says we must study line upon line precept upon precept,
That is EXACTLY what I do--with the goal of meticulous attention to detail.
We must also understand Hebrew figures of speech (idioms) and customs to fully understand certain things
We must understand the words as used and intended by the Bible writers, not as translated and edited by man. Some Bible versions editorialize and add man's ideas in too many cases.
Instead of arguing everything I show you in scripture
Not arguing, but carefully analyzing a presentation, and pointing out areas which appear to not be supported by Scripture. That is part of the calling I believe God has given me.
forget your preconceived ideas come to it as child with no preconceived thoughts like you seeing his words for the first time.
That is exactly how I come, or seek to come to the study of the Word.
What do you have to lose? pride ego?
I have no vested interest, nothing to lose. I have an unwavering commitment to seeking and understanding truth as stated in God's Word. 'Rightly dividing the Word of truth' callls for very careful, methodical Bible study. That is what God has called me to do.Dave

 

[tomwebster]

Dave, I think you would be happier on a different web site. I also think this post has gone as far as it's going to go.

 

[Christina]

(archierieus;57787)
Seeking to recognize the fulfillment of Bible prophecy is not necessarily of private interpretation. If such were the case, then ANY such effort would be 'private interpretation.' That is where careful study and peer review are helpful.But, following your line of presentation here, the idea that Satan is the Antichrist is 'private interpretation.' Why? Because nowhere in the Bible is there any verse that says Satan is the Antichrist. That is an interpretation.Bible prophecy deals with the future, that is, after the time the prophet wrote. Very much of prophecy deals with times after the Bible was written. Are you proposing that it is not appropriate to look for fulfillment of such prophecies?
You are saying then that even though the only Church's God was pleased with in Rev. that is Smyrna and Philadelphia they were teaching the wrong thing because according to the writing of the bishops of Smyrna they taught Satan was Antichrist. So according to you they are wrong then I wonder why God was so pleased with them??? Satan as antichrist isnt new its very old men just changed the teaching. If you are really interested in coming out of confusion here are these early wrttings I suggest you get this free book http://www.christianityboard.com/free-book...-rev-t6226.html....................And your words are not even in context or to the point It doesnt make any difference what the word pit means in the context I was talking about Thats like me saying we are both going to Dallas Tex. and you telling me its not the same city because what the word Dallas means such and such, how does that change we are both going there. I know the hebrew meanings of words but you still have to follow the subject and object.And I know that Rev 20 is after Christ comes thats was my point and I already said that if you reread my post. The point you are missing is so is Isa. 14 talking after Christ return they are the same subject Satan, Lucifer after Christ comes There is little in the New testament that is not in the old it may litteral, or a type, or a fore runner but its there.Im afraid you are so steeped in mens Words you can not see Gods so if you choose to believe the Pope is Antichrist thats your buiness but you are not going to convince us. It just is not written. Like I said you tell me how the Muslims, are going to believe the Pope is christ. I suppose you believe theres going to be a rapture thats mans typical answer to things they can not explain.

 

[jtartar]

(stone;55374)
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. These protestant bible scholars believed that the pope is an antichrist or that the antichrist would be the last pope:Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Cotton Mather, John Knox, Wycliffe, Tyndale, Finney, Moody, Spurgeon, Sir Isaac Newton, and Fox.During the Reformation, Martin Luther noted that "Benediktos", [the name Benedict in Greek], added up to 666 in Greek gematria, and he thought it might refer to a Pope named Benedict or to Benedictine monks. [Gematria is Greek letters used for numbers in Geek.]ΒενεδικτοσςTOTAL255054102030070200666Benedict xvi is the pope now. However I believe from what the bible says that the Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 prophecy must happen before antichrist comes to power over the 10 nations of the EU, the revived Roman empire. The Ezekiel prophecy is about nations, Russia, Iran/Iraq, Ethiopia, Lybia Germany or France uniting in a coalition to attack Israel. That is not about to happen yet, although the middle east is moving in that direction. Recently Israel threatened by a military exercise to attack Iran's nuclear facilities and Russia warned them to back off. If Israel does attack Iran, this could make Russia angry enough to form the coalition to attack Israel in just a few years, while Benedict is still pope. This guy pope Benedict was a Hitler youth and grew up in a country where the mostly catholic Govt. of Germany was murdering people of other religions in the holocaust. [I read that the third reich was the most catholic controlled Govt. Germany ever had.] Before he became pope, he was the head of the modern "office of the inquisition" which now has another name, something like the congregation for the doctrine of the faith or something like that. Seeing his background it seems to me that he could have the mentality of the antichrist. The antichrist is supposed to come in peacefully and obtain the kingdom by flattery, Dan. 11:21. Is pope Benedict using flattery on the leaders of the European Union? If the Ezekiel prophecy happens soon enough, he could be the antichrist.!! We will need to wait and see. I know he is an old man, but aging can be greatly slowed down by vitamins, calcium and alot of sleep or harmone therapy with human growth harmone. He could last a long time.
stone, Notice first what the number is. It is the number of the name of the Image of the Wild Beast, a man's number, Rev 13:18. Remember that the beast is an enemy of God's because it is given power and authority by the dragon, which is Satan, Rev 13:2. The Image of the Wild Beast is given life by the wild beast. The wild beast is the political governments of the world. The top world power of any time is symbolized by the seven heads, or seven World Powers, Egypt, Assyria, Babylo, Medes and Persions, Greece, Rome and the Anglo=American World Power, made up of The United States and Briton. As can easily be determined this Image of the Wild Beast is the swame as the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast mentioned at Rev 17:1-3,7,8. This Wild Beast is the United Nations noe. Notiice how is is described to BE then not BE then is IS again. This is a perfect description of the League of Nations, which WAS, from 1920 to 1941, then WAS NOT, from 1940 to 1945, then WAS AGAIN in 1945, after WW2. Very soon now the United Nations will attack Babylon the Great, which is the World Empire of False Religion, Rev 17:12-18. When they have annihilated her the United Nations will thhen turn on True Religion, Christianity. This will bring on their destruction, by the bringing in of God's Kingdom.