Numbers 23:19: Big Problem

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ReChoired

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Numbers 23:19

English Standard Version

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

New King James Version

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

New Living Translation

God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?



First, Num 23:19 says God is not man. But Jesus Christ is both man and God. Why would God say He is not man? Jesus Himself was called "the Son of Man" during His earthly ministry. So why would this verse say that God is not a "Son of Man?

Second, Jesus, the begotten of God, is human. That which is begotten of, is of the same substance and nature as that which begets. Ergo, God the Father is also, and has eternally been, human Himself.

Third, there must never have been a time in the eternal existence of either God the Father or God the Son that they were not human, because if that were so, then that would mean Jesus changed in order to become something different. We know from scripture that God does not change: Malachi 3:6 , Hebrews 13:8 , Psalms 55:19 , Psalms 102:27.


I believe the truth of the holy scriptures are able to withstand any attacks on them, including this one, for they are the foundation of all truth and rightness. However, I do find this predicament to be troubling. Not game-breaking, just troubling. All help appreciated and God bless.
I actually didn't receive notification about this thread, though I was obviously tagged. I just stumbled across it.

The answers to your questions are simple, though you do have some erroneous assumptions that lead to faulty conclusions.

Let's see if you may receive the help you need.

1. Numbers 23:19 KJB is in the immediate context of Numbers 23:13-26 KJB known as the 2nd oracle of Balaam the prophet of madness (2 Peter 2:16 KJB).

Consider that Numbers 23:19 KJB comes immediately after Balaam begins his prophetic "parable" (Numbers 23:18 KJB), which, by the way, uses proper names (so much for that myth that parables cannot or do not use or have proper names, ie Luke 16).

2. The text does not say, "God is not a man (full stop)" with period. To say so takes the phrase out of context which is what a devil would do (Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:10-11 KJB).

The text actually says in full:

Num 23:19 KJB: "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

This is in response to Balak's request to curse Israel (after the flesh) by Balaam. However, God told Balaam to bless Israel, because:

Num 23:21: "He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them."

So God promised to bless them as long as they obeyed Him. The people were, up to this point obedient. God, then, as Balaam says, cannot lie, or go back on his word as mankind often does.

The text does not say that God could not (or would not) become a man later, for that was promised since Genesis 3:15,21 KJB. Even mother Eve (Genesis 3:20 KJB) expected Cain to be the Messiah promised (Genesis 4:1 KJB). The people knew about the promise of "Shiloh" (Genesis 49:10 KJB). Abraham and Isaac was even a type enacted in life:

Gen 22:8: "And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."

God (JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days) did indeed "provide himself a lamb", giving up His own eternal Son.

God (JEHOVAH jr., Jesus) did indeed "provide himself", offering himself, being the "Lamb".

The eternal Father would sacrifice His own eternal Son. Moses knew of this, and even wrote of it by inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

The whole argument that the text says that "God is not a man (full stop)" originated in Arian heresy, such as Islamic dawah-ists, WTS/JW, etc. It's simply a lie, fabricated and disingenuous with the text.

3. The phrase "only begotten" (John 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9 KJB), is basically monogene (μονογενῆ; John 3:16; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9) or monogenes (μονογενὴς; John 1:18) or monogenous (μονογενοῦς; John 1:14, 3:18) and in context refers to the Son's eternal nature as Deity, being the only one of the same nature as His Father (Philippians 2:5-7 KJB, "form of God" (nature of Deity) in contrast to "form of a servant" (nature of mankind); and Hebrews 1:3, "the express image" (of the eternal Father)). Mono means only, or singular, even one. Genes, refers to nature, not birth or coming into existence. Mono - Gene, simply means in context "the only one that shares the same nature as the Father". Jesus is the original Heir of the Father by nature (being eternal Deity in nature as His Father is). The other "sons", like the created heavenly angelic hosts (like Gabriel and 'herald', etc) are not of the same eternal nature as the Father and Son. Those angelic hosts have their own created flesh nature's (1 Corinthians 15:35-45; Hebrews 2:16; Jude 1:7 KJB) which differs from God's eternal flesh nature and mankind's flesh nature. They are "sons" by creation. Mankind, in a similar, though slightly differing fashion, are also "sons" by creation (at the first, in Adam), but now adopted by redemption (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6 KJB). They are all "sons", but Jesus is the only "son" by original eternal nature of the Father. This is why the Father is called "the only 'true' God" (means underived and original nature) and the Son is the "only begotten" (derives the eternal nature from or) of the Father. In other words the word 'true' simply means that the Father's eternal nature is original with Himself, while the Son derives that nature by the Father. This is what makes them eternal Father and eternal Son.

This does not mean that the Father is, or ever was 'human'. The Son, in Philippians 2 took on an additional nature (mankind's flesh nature) to the original eternal nature He always had (Deity's nature).

4. The phrases found in Malachi 3:6; Psalms 102:12,24-27; Hebrews 1:8-12, 13:6-8, etc, is speaking about the eternal and unchanging character of Deity. The heart of Deity.

Mal 3:6: "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

In other words, the texts are not saying that Deity could not become clothed with the nature of mankind, as the Son mysteriously did. They are stating, in context (the name of God - JEHOVAH, see Exodus 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7 KJB, as his name is, so is he), that God's heart, the eternal character of love does not ever change and that is the reason that the "sons of Jacob (supplanters, decievers, fallen by iniquity)" are therefore "not consumed" because of the unchanging and eternal character of mercy, compassion, forgiveness, justice, etc.

While the Son (eternally in the "form of God"), when taking upon Himself the "form of a servant" (nature of mankind in flesh) chose not to utilize the powers of Deity, did not lay aside, did not change, His eternal character of self-sacrificing love.

The same arguments that were presented in the OP, are a misuse of the texts, and again stem from Arian heresies, such as Islamic Dawahists, WTS/JW, etc. I understand that the OP is simply asking about these failed and silly arguments and do not place any blame upon them for these ridiculous arguments. They simply do not know the scriptures, neither the power of God, for they deny what is written:

1Tim 3:16: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Real scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35 KJB).

Ps. The ESV, NKJV, NLT are all terribly bad with mistakes in them and are broken in places. They may contain parts of the word of God, in and of themselves are not the whole word of God, demonstrable upon request.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Numbers 23:19

English Standard Version

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

New King James Version

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

New Living Translation

God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?



First, Num 23:19 says God is not man. But Jesus Christ is both man and God. Why would God say He is not man? Jesus Himself was called "the Son of Man" during His earthly ministry. So why would this verse say that God is not a "Son of Man?

Second, Jesus, the begotten of God, is human. That which is begotten of, is of the same substance and nature as that which begets. Ergo, God the Father is also, and has eternally been, human Himself.

Third, there must never have been a time in the eternal existence of either God the Father or God the Son that they were not human, because if that were so, then that would mean Jesus changed in order to become something different. We know from scripture that God does not change: Malachi 3:6 , Hebrews 13:8 , Psalms 55:19 , Psalms 102:27.


I believe the truth of the holy scriptures are able to withstand any attacks on them, including this one, for they are the foundation of all truth and rightness. However, I do find this predicament to be troubling. Not game-breaking, just troubling. All help appreciated and God bless.
God is Spirit and spirit is immaterial, so no one could know God unless He revealed Himself. There are many false religions, some closer to the truth than others, because God is evident in His creation, but He can't be known by this limited Revelation through His works (no more than you can know an artist through his paintings or a musician through his music.)

Jesus is the manifestation of God, God incarnate, God in the flesh. Before His birth Jesus was not flesh and blood, but eternal spirit, the eternal Son of God.

The scripture you quote is not contradictory because it was written long before the Lord's birth and the scriptures were written over a long period of time, progressively revealing the Lord. It gave me doubt as a young child because I thought that the Bible had a single author and was written all at once. God's word is eternal and true, but we exist in time, we experience life sequentially and the scriptures are written for our understanding, according to the degree of knowledge when something was written.

When questioned and criticized by unbelieving Jews, Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I Am." The Jews understood this statement as Jesus declaring Himself to be the self existent God. Offended by this, they wanted to kill Him for blasphemy, and eventually condemned Him to death for this reason.

If you look closely at the old testament, God also says through the prophets "I alone am savior", yet the angel Gabriel clearly declared that Jesus would indeed save His people And this nine months before His birth.

All that Jesus did was attributed to God in the Old Testament. He did the works of God and He told the Pharisees plainly : "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me." John 5:39

Jesus told His detractors plainly that He did the works of the Father, and He told His disciples plainly that in seeing Him, they saw the father. Jesus is the fullness of deity in the form of man.

This is what the cults deny and it was the reason the Jews condemned Him.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
This is the stumbling block of the carnal minded and its so because salvation is of God, not man. If we could arrive at truth without being born again of His Spirit and by His will, salvation would be of us and not Him.

God is sovereign in creation and He alone is Savior, blessed forever, even Jesus the Christ our Lord. Amen.
 
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Nancy

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Oops, still wrong:

Philippians 2:6-7 states Jesus existed in the form of God that He had by nature, and EMPTIED Himself to take the form of a man and humble servant.

He was God before and after incarnating as a man.

Colossians 2:9 states in Jesus dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead, bodily.

The word Godhead is THEOTES, which means ‘the state of being God’ - thus in Jesus dwells ‘all the fullness of the state of BEING GOD’, bodily.

Fortunately, a shallow and incorrect knowledge of Jesus being divinity is not a salvation issue, because you can be on milk of the word and not on meat, and only believe Jesus is the son of God, and still be saved.

Unfortunately though, denying Jesus rose bodily from the dead, IS a salvational issue.

Hi Curtis,
Agreed with what you say except I have a question about this para: "Fortunately, a shallow and incorrect knowledge of Jesus being divinity is not a salvation issue, because you can be on milk of the word and not on meat, and only believe Jesus is the son of God, and still be saved."

This would mean we should never worship Jesus, and He certainly accepted worship, unlike angels. I will admit it is confusing. And, if true, all us Christians who DO worship Him (whose Name is above all Names)...are worshiping an idol. :eek:
 
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marks

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Because the body God incarnated into isn’t HIM, since per 2 Corinthians 5 our body is just a house our spirit lives in, that we leave at the death of the body..

God the logos chose to dwell in a house too, but the house is not HIM anymore than our house is US.

When His house died for 3 days, Jesus descended into the heart of the earth, and preached to the spirits in prison.
Yes! Love it!

I don't know why I couldn't lay my fingers on this yesterday, but that's how we are. Or more to the point, how we are is that we are created in the Image of God.

We are created in God's image, and it's not so much that God became Human, He took upon Himself our image to bring us back into His image. God is Spirit, so we must have first been spirit, but when that died we became flesh. God took on flesh, remaining Spirit, so He could share with us His Spirit, to make us alive again.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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But why do you believe that Jesus is God when he never said he was. He said he was "the Son of God" but nowhere did he ever say that he was "God the Son".....not once...
What Jesus did say was that he was Messias [the Messiah, the Christ]:

"The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he." John 4:25-26

Yes, Jesus said he was the Messiah! That means, I believe, the anointed one. Who anointed him?
Would God require that anyone anoint Him?

Messivaß Messias (mes-see'-as);
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3323

Messias = "anointed"

  1. the Greek form of Messiah
  2. a name of Christ

Cristovß Christos (khris-tos');
Word Origin: Greek, Adjective, Strong #: 5547

Christ = "anointed"
  1. Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
  2. anointed
 

Curtis

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Hi Curtis,
Agreed with what you say except I have a question about this para: "Fortunately, a shallow and incorrect knowledge of Jesus being divinity is not a salvation issue, because you can be on milk of the word and not on meat, and only believe Jesus is the son of God, and still be saved."

This would mean we should never worship Jesus, and He certainly accepted worship, unlike angels. I will admit it is confusing. And, if true, all us Christians who DO worship Him (whose Name is above all Names)...are worshiping an idol. :eek:
Well, none of the salvation scriptures say that he who worships Jesus shall be saved, but he who believes in Jesus shall be saved.

Should Jesus be worshiped? Yes, the apostles did it, and God ordered and commanded the angels to worship Jesus when he was born - and if Jesus is not divinity, then God violated his own command that says only God is to be worshiped.
 
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amadeus

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Jesus is Immanuel which means "God with us"

Consider the ones in scripture, NT and OT, bearing the same name: Are all of them also God?

ÅIhsou'ß Iesous (ee-ay-sooce');
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 2424

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

  1. Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
  2. Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate to release instead of Christ
  3. Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor (Ac. 7:45, Heb. 4:
  4. Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Lu. 3:
  5. Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Col. 4:
wXwhy Y@howshuwa` (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah); , Strong #: 3091

Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation" n pr m

  1. son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan
  2. a resident of Beth-shemesh on whose land the Ark of the Covenant came to a stop after the Philistines returned it
  3. son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration
  4. governor of Jerusalem under king Josiah who gave his name to a gate of the city of Jerusalem
 

Curtis

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Consider the ones in scripture, NT and OT, bearing the same name: Are all of them also God?

ÅIhsou'ß Iesous (ee-ay-sooce');
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 2424

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

  1. Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
  2. Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate to release instead of Christ
  3. Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor (Ac. 7:45, Heb. 4:
  4. Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Lu. 3:
  5. Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Col. 4:
wXwhy Y@howshuwa` (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah); , Strong #: 3091

Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation" n pr m

  1. son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan
  2. a resident of Beth-shemesh on whose land the Ark of the Covenant came to a stop after the Philistines returned it
  3. son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration
  4. governor of Jerusalem under king Josiah who gave his name to a gate of the city of Jerusalem
The name Jesus does not mean Emmanuel.

Emmanuel is a title given to the Messiah in both the old and the New Testament, whose name is Y’eshua in Hebrew (Joshua in English) short for Yehoshua (which means, Yahweh saves), and Y’eshua translates into Greek as Iesous, and from Greek to English as Jesus.
 

amadeus

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The name Jesus does not mean Emmanuel.

Emmanuel is a title given to the Messiah in both the old and the New Testament, whose name is Y’eshua in Hebrew (Joshua in English) short for Yehoshua (which means, Yahweh saves), and Y’eshua translates into Greek as Iesous, and from Greek to English as Jesus.
Is God with each one of us who has received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
 

Aunty Jane

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Jesus is Immanuel which means "God with us"
Yes, God was “with” his people by means of his anointed one.

How was God “with” his people Israel before Jesus came? Wasn’t it by means of their appointed leader, and mediator of the old covenant, Moses? Didn’t Moses foretell that a “prophet like him” would come in the future? This one would be the mediator of a new covenant. God does not have to be physically present to be “with” his worshippers....in fact that is impossible because of what he told Moses.

So just as Jesus is “with” his disciples as they fulfill the ‘great commission’, (Matthew 28:19-20) he does not have to be physically present either.

Don’t take things so literally.
 

ReChoired

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God is Spirit and spirit is immaterial
You are in error. The Bible says that God is a spirit, which means God is a spirit Being.

The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe. That is pantheism, or panentheism, both of which are gross heresies and destroys the Gospel itself.

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).

God has hairs on His head, Daniel 7:9; and has hands, Exodus 33:22; and has feet, Exodus 24:10; and loins [H4975; waist to upper thighs, see 1 Kings 18:46, etc], Ezekiel 1:27; a face, Matthew 18:10; a heart, Genesis 6:6; parts, Exodus 22:32; a form, Philippians 2:6; shape, John 5:37; is a Person, Hebrews 1:3; is a Soul, Jeremiah 5:9; and is a Spirit, thus has a mind, Matthew 12:28.

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:10).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).

So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.
 

Curtis

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If that is what you choose to believe, that is your choice to make.....all the best with that.

Thanks, I do what the Bereans did and search the scriptures to see if it be so.

Whereas I know for a fact that watchtower adherents are told to believe their, the WTS interpretation of scripture, instead of studying to show yourself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the scriptures.

Bible: The one born of a virgin is the mighty God, the everlasting father.

WTS: no, He’s not.

John 1:1 Jesus is God the word, who was with God and WAS God.

WTS: no, He’s really just A God, an angel who got promoted.

Colossians 2:9 In Jesus is all the fullness of being God in the flesh.

WYS: no he’s not.

Jesus: He who has seen me, has seen the Father.

WTS: He doesn’t mean what He said

Etc, etc, etc.
 
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GEN2REV

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Apologies if I've missed anyone. Feel free to invite.

Numbers 23:19

English Standard Version

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

New King James Version

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

New Living Translation

God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?



First, Num 23:19 says God is not man. But Jesus Christ is both man and God. Why would God say He is not man? Jesus Himself was called "the Son of Man" during His earthly ministry. So why would this verse say that God is not a "Son of Man?

Second, Jesus, the begotten of God, is human. That which is begotten of, is of the same substance and nature as that which begets. Ergo, God the Father is also, and has eternally been, human Himself.

Third, there must never have been a time in the eternal existence of either God the Father or God the Son that they were not human, because if that were so, then that would mean Jesus changed in order to become something different. We know from scripture that God does not change: Malachi 3:6 , Hebrews 13:8 , Psalms 55:19 , Psalms 102:27.


I believe the truth of the holy scriptures are able to withstand any attacks on them, including this one, for they are the foundation of all truth and rightness. However, I do find this predicament to be troubling. Not game-breaking, just troubling. All help appreciated and God bless.
I don't think there's any predicament. Taking scripture, as a whole, there is no contradiction here.

"God is not a man..." He's not a man. He's a spirit. John 4:24

"...that He should lie;" He has no need to lie like men do out of insecurity and uncertainty and fear of men.

"...neither the son of man, that He should repent:" The second part of this statement makes clear that it is not referring to Jesus. Jesus had no need to repent of anything. Jesus was perfect and free of all sin. Thus, the author is immediately clearing up any dispute about his statement, that he perceived might arise, beforehand.

Therefore, I don't believe this is a contradiction to Jesus' status as God.
 

Aunty Jane

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Remind me again, what did He tell Moses?
"No man may see me and yet live" (Exodus 33:20)
Numbers 23:19: Big Problem

You must forgive me if I take the Bible literally. I have too much respect for it not to take it literally.
Not everything in the Bible is literal though.....Jesus spoke by the use of illustrations which may have had a literal application of some sort, but were not concerning literal things.....like the "wheat and the weeds" for example. Was this parable about literal "wheat and weeds"? Was the parable about the rich man and Lazarus about a real rich man and a beggar?
Were the beasts in Daniel and Revelation real creatures? Was the devil a real dragon or a snake?

Surely you must know the difference between something symbolic and something literal....?