Obscure figures of speech...

[face2face]

Over recent months covering various subjects it has become plain to many in this forum that Christians generally tend to have a bias to reading God's word literally and inferring meaning to the text never intended by the author. The reason for this thread is to discuss study techniques which can assist the reader with interpreting the text correctly.

Let's begin with an example of which there will be hundreds before this thread is done.

Take Matthew 25:41 as a hot potato at the moment:

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say •to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Compare this verse with Jesus' words

John 16:25 I have told you these things in obscure figures of speech; a time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in obscure figures, but will tell you plainly about the Father.

So it's no secret Jesus spoke in parable and figures of speech to conceal hidden things from those not worthy to receive them and to encourage the Elect to study to show themselves approved in the searching out wisdom and truth.

Firstly, I have encountered a number of members who dont know what figurative language is or how its used in the Bible.

In Matthew 25:41 we have 3 pieces of information which need unpacking.

1. Eternal fire
2. Devil
3. Angels

Each of these are not literal in their meaning and are obscure figure of speech to teach hidden wisdom to the inquiring mind.

A plain reading of that verse offers you no understanding at all. You need to look behind the symbols to understand what the Lord is teaching.

Here is an extremely well accepted example of figurative language.

Revelation 3:15-16

You are neither cold nor hot:

This was a judgment on a churches spiritual condition.

The cold or hot is not literal, it's figurative.

The issue with the modern Christians is they dont have the tools to discern whats figurative and what's literal.

I hope to go through a number of examples showing how to identify and interpret them.

For those (lukewarm) who believe Jesus was talking about their literal body temperature; please resist from contributing to this thread (thank you)- Revelation 3:16 is speaking to those
who are indifferent, ineffective, impotent and who are not literally lukewarm!

Matthew 25:41 is just one of hundreds upon hundreds of verses the Lord used in obscure figurative language...lets see if we can decipher them in their correct context!

People in this forum guilty of misinterpreting figures of speech are hereby named:

@Grailhunter
@Aunty Jane
@dad
@Jack

Lets not add to this list shall we....be great to remove names!

F2F

 

[Grailhunter]

Over recent months covering various subjects it has become plain to many in this forum that Christians generally tend to have a bias to reading God's word literally and inferring meaning to the text never intended by the author. The reason for this thread is to discuss study techniques which can assist the reader with interpreting the text correctly.

LOL Obviously your study techniques have failed you....LOL

 

[face2face]

LOL Obviously your study techniques have failed you....LOL

Expected!

 

[face2face]

I will spew you out of my mouth:

Again, I dont know many here who would apply a literal interpretation to Revelation 3:16...Jesus will not literally spew those unworthy out of his mouth BUT is a figure of disgust and rejection.

I think what will happen to those open minded is they will look at Matthew 25:41 in time and ask themselves "what is the interpretation of those symbols being adopted by the Master"

Let's see.

 

[Jack]

Over recent months covering various subjects it has become plain to many in this forum that Christians generally tend to have a bias to reading God's word literally and inferring meaning to the text never intended by the author.

More JW doctrine, the Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says it means.

 

[Grailhunter]

Expected!

LOL

 

[dad]

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say •to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Compare this verse with Jesus' words

John 16:25 I have told you these things in obscure figures of speech; a time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in obscure figures, but will tell you plainly about the Father.

Unto the unbelievers it was not given to them that they could understand. To believers it was given! To us it was not obscure at all.

In Matthew 25:41 we have 3 pieces of information which need unpacking.

1. Eternal fire
2. Devil
3. Angels

Each of these are not literal in their meaning and are obscure figure of speech to teach hidden wisdom to the inquiring mind.

Say what?? Who says these are not literal? Angels and Satan are real. The torment of hell are also real.

Revelation 3:15-16

You are neither cold nor hot:

This was a judgment on a churches spiritual condition.

The cold or hot is not literal, it's figurative.

It is not meant to be literal. It is offered as a description based on real things. The meaning is clear. You cannot use that to justify not believing what IS offered as as what was heard or seen etc.

When Jesus went up, that did not mean up was really an onion, or that His Father was a tomato.

 

[dad]

More JW doctrine, the Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says it means.

Do you know that the poster is JW? I don't think he admitted that to me.
By the way as far as I am concerned JW = unbeliever

 

[face2face]

Unto the unbelievers it was not given to them that they could understand. To believers it was given! To us it was not obscure at all.

Really? Do you think the disciples understood clearly what he was teaching? You can't even be honest about what is true! That's the reason Jesus said to them he would not always speak in parables with figurative language.

Boy dad - you're not the sharpest tool in this shed!

Say what?? Who says these are not literal? Angels and Satan are real. The torment of hell are also real.

Again, figurative language which needs unpacking - the symbols speak of literal things but not what's in your imagination!

It is not meant to be literal. It is offered as a description based on real things. The meaning is clear. You cannot use that to justify not believing what IS offered as as what was heard or seen etc.

When Jesus went up, that did not mean up was really an onion, or that His Father was a tomato.

Disappointing isn't it?
You confirmed why your name is on the list of those who can't discern the text, or give an answer to the Lord's obscure lessons.
Luke 18:34 - there is no shame is being honest - it's the only way we can truly learn.
As you showed with your ark thread it's easy to think you know a thing only to find it wasn't at all what you thought it meant.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Do you know that the poster is JW? I don't think he admitted that to me.
By the way as far as I am concerned JW = unbeliever

Still not very sharp - I have listed a JW in my OP :

 

[marks]

The issue with the modern Christians is they dont have the tools to discern whats figurative and what's literal.

If you interpret the Bible using the Bible as it's own commentary you won't have that issue.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

In Matthew 25:41 we have 3 pieces of information which need unpacking.
1. Eternal fire
2. Devil
3. Angels
Each of these are not literal in their meaning and are obscure figure of speech to teach hidden wisdom to the inquiring mind.

This is just plain NONSENSE. If you do not wish to believe in their existence, make yourself scarce. But please don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of others. Australia seems to have become a breeding ground for delusions.

 

[face2face]

If you interpret the Bible using the Bible as it's own commentary you won't have that issue.

Much love!

That is a very true statement Marks! The issue we are seeing is when believers force non Biblical notions on the text by trying to make it teach something its not.

 

[face2face]

This is just plain NONSENSE. If you do not wish to believe in their existence, make yourself scarce. But please don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of others.

You know what's interesting Enoch is another believer who is also contributing to this thread cannot bring themselves to state what is the figure being used in Luke 2:32

Do you know why they cant bring themselves to do this?

 

[face2face]

@Enoch111 I'm tipping we wont see you for another few weeks...you pop in have and leave.

What type of contribution is that?

 

[Jack]

Do you know that the poster is JW? I don't think he admitted that to me.

When someone preaches Kingdom Hall doctrine does it matter what he calls himself?

By the way as far as I am concerned JW = unbeliever

I agree.

 

[dad]

Really? Do you think the disciples understood clearly what he was teaching? You can't even be honest about what is true! That's the reason Jesus said to them he would not always speak in parables with figurative language.

They had Him to explain so yes of course they understood. Do you not also have Him? Do you not understand?

Again, figurative language which needs unpacking - the symbols speak of literal things but not what's in your imagination!

Like we'd ask you?

As you showed with your ark thread it's easy to think you know a thing only to find it wasn't at all what you thought it meant.

I do not share your problem of not believing in the reality of prophesy and heaven. Nor does what you think anything means the be all end all, in fact you can't even seem to post that.

What you can do is answer the charge another poster leveled about some folks here being JWs.

 

[dad]

When someone preaches Kingdom Hall doctrine does it matter what he calls himself?

I agree.

Right, I talked to some many years ago. A bunch of unbelieving grinches.

 

[dad]

Still not very sharp - I have listed a JW in my OP :

I looked again at the OP and see nothing about JW

 

[Enoch111]

I looked again at the OP and see nothing about JW

Aunty Jane is clearly a JW.