Old Earth

[aspen]

A soul is the combination of body and spirit. Using the word soul to describe the spirit is from the teachings of Plato and the Greeks. All references to soul used to describe our spirit in the Bible was influence by the teachings of Plato.

Also, we do not even need carbon dating to know that the Earth is old. Layers of ice on glaciers proves it

 

[Forsakenone]

Not surprised you don't see it, but God didn't breath into ANY other life form, only man. No other life form is made in God's image, just man.
God is triune, and so is man. Animals and all other life forms are not. If you want to equate yourself with monkeys then go ahead but I for one am far above a monkey.
I do agree with you, we just need to read it...so please do so then get back to me with some actual understanding.


The serpent told EVE;

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

You obviously don't know what Paul was talking about in Romans 3, so I'll tell you. He was talking about God's faithfulness and righteousness and how we can only have that through and by Jesus.
You can find it below in MODERN English as you don't seem to be able to properly handle the King James English.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+3&version=NIV

Again you insult me, but I realize it is not you but the dumb spirit that dwells within you.

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.Gen 5:2

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Matt 19:4-5
Gen 3:17-20

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

If you were born of the Spirit and the Word, you would know that the Holy Ghost, who is the Son of God, was the Man made in the likeness and image of the Eternal Light and in such you would know that the male and female was the Woman made from Man.

 

[OzSpen]

Here's some external scriptures to Genesis 1 that confirms YEC.

“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.” — Exodus 20:11

“It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.” — Exodus 31:17

We may not be Israelites, but we can claim this truth.

Stan,

Exodus 31:15-17 (ESV) is an excellent statement to show the link between the days of creation and rest, and the days of work and rest:

I work for 6 literal days and rest on the seventh (well, I'm supposed to) and that is parallel with 'a sign for ever' between God and the people of Israel of 6 days in which the Lord made the heaven and the earth.

For six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. 16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant for ever. 17 It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

Answers in Genesis has written a couple pretty good articles that cover some of these fundamental issues, 'Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days?' and 'The Necessity for Believing in Six Literal Days'.

Oz

 

[KingJ]

Not surprised you don't see it, but God didn't breath into ANY other life form, only man. No other life form is made in God's image, just man.
God is triune, and so is man. Animals and all other life forms are not. If you want to equate yourself with monkeys then go ahead but I for one am far above a monkey.
I do agree with you, we just need to read it...so please do so then get back to me with some actual understanding.

You are confusing the breathe of life with us being creations just beneath the angels. A spirit is part and parcel of us. The body and the spirit wakes up when we receive the breath of life. It is no train smash to see it like you do. But when you grasp TE's HAVE to see it like that, it becomes clear we need to word it as is / not assume anything.

 

[DogLady19]

Not surprised you don't see it, but God didn't breath into ANY other life form, only man. No other life form is made in God's image, just man.

Just curious, how do you explain that there will be animals in heaven? What do you make of Proverbs 12:10 that uses the word "nephesh" pertaining to animals?

Of course, no animal needs salvation because animals can only live according to God's laws. They live and die sinless lives. And God made animals to be OUR companions, not His. 1 Corinthians 15:39

You are confusing the breathe of life with us being creations just beneath the angels. A spirit is part and parcel of us. The body and the spirit wakes up when we receive the breath of life. It is no train smash to see it like you do. But when you grasp TE's HAVE to see it like that, it becomes clear we need to word it as is / not assume anything.

God's children are above the angels, humans living outside of grace are beneath the angels. 1 Corinthians 6:3 and Psalm 8

 

[KingJ]

God's children are above the angels, humans living outside of grace are beneath the angels. 1 Corinthians 6:3 and Psalm 8

Careful here DL you are stepping on prosperity teaching ^_^.

Judging angels does not mean we are creations above them. Can we fly?
Accepting Jesus does not place us above them in rank, they do not serve God? They did not / do not accept Jesus? They do not currently reign with God?

An angel is not a dodo robot. An angel has more power then you or I. Angels take our orders because in God's kingdom things work upside down. The greatest is the least.
What angels do you believe we will judge?

 

[StanJ]

A soul is the combination of body and spirit. Using the word soul to describe the spirit is from the teachings of Plato and the Greeks. All references to soul used to describe our spirit in the Bible was influence by the teachings of Plato.

Also, we do not even need carbon dating to know that the Earth is old. Layers of ice on glaciers proves it

Our soul is what God first breathed into Adam and has been passed down to ALL mankind through pro-creation. It is what distinguishes us from ALL other life. IMO, Jesus had the biggest influence in the early Christian Church and He was NOT influenced by Plato. There is no doubt Plato has had influence in secular thought and hence that society, but to contribute the import of the NT to Plato is IMO sacrilegious.

The point is nobody knows because their is NO frame of reference. Your assertion is based on your knowledge and science theory, which is NOT proven. I will stick with God's word.

 

[StanJ]

Again you insult me, but I realize it is not you but the dumb spirit that dwells within you.

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.Gen 5:2

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Matt 19:4-5
Gen 3:17-20

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

If you were born of the Spirit and the Word, you would know that the Holy Ghost, who is the Son of God, was the Man made in the likeness and image of the Eternal Light and in such you would know that the male and female was the Woman made from Man.

Not at all...just stating the facts based on your feedback.

Again not understanding the Greek and using the KJV is not helpful for you education. 'âdâm is the Hebrew word which means human being or mankind in Gen 5:2. In other parts of the OT, it connotes;

1. man, human being
2. man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
3. Adam, first man
4. city in Jordan valley

The Holy Ghost is NOT the Son of God. Jesus is the SON of God. Sadly you lack a lot of basic knowledge. You should take a course in Christianity 101.
I can guarantee you, not only have I been born of the Spirit, but I have been Baptized by and filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[StanJ]

You are confusing the breathe of life with us being creations just beneath the angels. A spirit is part and parcel of us. The body and the spirit wakes up when we receive the breath of life. It is no train smash to see it like you do. But when you grasp TE's HAVE to see it like that, it becomes clear we need to word it as is / not assume anything.

No confusion here KJ but apparently there is on your part. We are TRIPARTITE beings, just as God is and is why the Bible says we are MADE in His image. I have no idea what a train smash is.
What is a TE?

 

[StanJ]

Just curious, how do you explain that there will be animals in heaven? What do you make of Proverbs 12:10 that uses the word "nephesh" pertaining to animals?

Of course, no animal needs salvation because animals can only live according to God's laws. They live and die sinless lives. And God made animals to be OUR companions, not His. 1 Corinthians 15:39

God's children are above the angels, humans living outside of grace are beneath the angels. 1 Corinthians 6:3 and Psalm 8

There won't be so no explanation needed. What Solomon uses in Prov 12:10 is not the same. It's best when you read that you try to determine (which seems hard for some people ) the proper connotation that the context requires.

נֶ֣פֶשׁ (nephesh)
soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
2. living being
3. living being (with life in the blood)
4. the man himself, self, person or individual
5. seat of the appetites
6. seat of emotions and passions
7. activity of mind
   dubious

[*]activity of the will

1. dubious

[*]activity of the character

1. dubious

 

[DogLady19]

There won't be so no explanation needed. What Solomon uses in Prov 12:10 is not the same. It's best when you read that you try to determine (which seems hard for some people ) the proper connotation that the context requires.

Hmmm, perhaps Jesus and the saints return to earth on imaginary white horses...

You know, it is impossible to have any kind of respectful discussion with you. I asked you a sincere question based on things you had already written about that intrigued me, and you just have to respond with some arrogant retort.

I am one of those people who believes that even prideful jerks have knowledge that I don't possess. Was hoping you could jump off your ego high-horse for two minutes and offer your thoughts ... but I am the fool here. It is not in your nature to be respectful or humble enough to exchange intellectual ideas or to show any gentleness or godliness toward anyone.

Now, go ahead and reply with your usual contumely and call me an ignorant illiterate false prophet. Would hate for you to stop doing something that seems to make you feel superior...

I promise to never bother you again with my stupid deceitful input. Proverbs 16:5

 

[Keeth]

Mt 10;26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mt 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Ac 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[StanJ]

Mt 10;26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mt 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Ac 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Even the most basic of readers know a word does not always mean the same thing in every use. Connotation is based on context, which you either seem to not get or deliberately ignore?

 

[StanJ]

Hmmm, perhaps Jesus and the saints return to earth on imaginary white horses...

You know, it is impossible to have any kind of respectful discussion with you. I asked you a sincere question based on things you had already written about that intrigued me, and you just have to respond with some arrogant retort.

I am one of those people who believes that even prideful jerks have knowledge that I don't possess. Was hoping you could jump off your ego high-horse for two minutes and offer your thoughts ... but I am the fool here. It is not in your nature to be respectful or humble enough to exchange intellectual ideas or to show any gentleness or godliness toward anyone.

Now, go ahead and reply with your usual contumely and call me an ignorant illiterate false prophet. Would hate for you to stop doing something that seems to make you feel superior...

I promise to never bother you again with my stupid deceitful input. Proverbs 16:5

Being facetious doesn't make any points whatsoever, except to show that is all you have.

and I gave you a sincere answer. If you don't know by now that I'm not a touchy feely type of person, that's your problem as is your perception of taking things so personally.

You always resort to the ad hominem when you get flustered, so who is being a jerk, or in this case a hypocrite? Emotionalism really has no place in a debate forum.

You keep saying that, so I can only conclude you are a masochist.

 

[KingJ]

No confusion here KJ but apparently there is on your part. We are TRIPARTITE beings, just as God is and is why the Bible says we are MADE in His image. I have no idea what a train smash is.
What is a TE?

I agree we are body, mind and spirit. A TE is a theistic evolutionist.

 

[Wormwood]

Hey everyone, we allow for vigorous debate...but lets try to keep the conversation about the topic and not one another. Its fine to make a comment about how someone else is coming across, but lets not allow this to become the focus of the discussion. Thank you.

 

[FHII]

Hey everyone, we allow for vigorous debate...but lets try to keep the conversation about the topic and not one another...

Amen! Its become a cancer on this board.

 

[JimParker]

Let's for a moment set aside the arguments of old vs young.

Instead let's discuss what really changes about God and his sovereignty IF the world is old.

Nothing changes about God and His sovereignty if the world is old. God could have created everything in a instant or taken what we experience as a trillion years. It makes absolutely no difference to God since He is not influenced by what we experience as time.

The Genesis 1 account of creation is an example of a standard literary convention used by people of the ancient Near East. They used genealogies to introduce a story and to transition between stories. The creation litany of Gen. 1 is the genealogy of the heavens and earth; of God's acts of creation. The genealogies vary in form and content a bit but are consistently used.

This genealogy introduces man. The creation litany goes from Gen 1:1 through 2:3 and the story of innocent man and his fall begins at 2:4.

The story of Cain and Abel is introduced by the genealogy of the two sons concluding with the murder of Abel by Cain.

That is followed by the genealogy of the sons of Cain and concluded by the taunt of Lamech. )"If Cain is avenged 7 times, I will be avenged 77 times!")

This if followed by the birth of Seth and the genealogy of his descendants which concludes with, the introduction of Noah and his three sons (a genealogy) which is then followed by the story of the flood.

The food story is followed by the genealogy of the descendants of Noah who were the patriarchs of the 70 nations. That genealogy brings us to the story of the dispersion ("tower of Babel")

The next Genealogy is that of Noah's son, Shem which leads to the genealogy of Terah and then to Abraham.

The story of Abraham and his descendants (Isaac, Jacob and Esau, and the 13 sons of Jacob) concludes with his family gong into Egypt and being 70 in number. (70 being the number of the nations to whom the descendants of Israel were to be priests. Exo 19:6)

What Genesis does is trace the ancestry of the people of God, Israel, back to the beginning. It shows us the division of those who called on the lord (sons of Seth) and those who built the first cities (Cain). It shows the salvation of one family because the righteousness of the father, Noah, and the choice of Shem (whose name means "Name") to be the father of those who would be called by the Name of God. (Israel)

So the Genesis account brings us from creation to the establishment of God's people, Israel.

It has absolutely nothing to do with how long God took to accomplish His work of creation. To use it as a "creation time-line" is to abuse the scriptures. It requires that we declare every astrophysicist to be incompetent because of a belief that scripture says something it was never intended to communicate.

If one is going to refute the astronomers and astrophysicists' calculations of the age of the universe, then one must be prepared to demonstrate exactly where every last one of them erred in making those calculations. And, no, the proof of their alleged error is not found in the 6 days of Genesis 1.

 

[DogLady19]

Nothing changes about God and His sovereignty if the world is old. God could have created everything in a instant or taken what we experience as a trillion years. It makes absolutely no difference to God since He is not influenced by what we experience as time.
...
So the Genesis account brings us from creation to the establishment of God's people, Israel.

It has absolutely nothing to do with how long God took to accomplish His work of creation. To use it as a "creation time-line" is to abuse the scriptures. It requires that we declare every astrophysicist to be incompetent because of a belief that scripture says something it was never intended to communicate.

If one is going to refute the astronomers and astrophysicists' calculations of the age of the universe, then one must be prepared to demonstrate exactly where every last one of them erred in making those calculations. And, no, the proof of their alleged error is not found in the 6 days of Genesis 1.

Awesome post! Well said!

"Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and marked off the heavens with a span, enclosed the dust of the earth in a measure and weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance?" -Isaiah 40:12

 

[StanJ]

It has absolutely nothing to do with how long God took to accomplish His work of creation. To use it as a "creation time-line" is to abuse the scriptures. It requires that we declare every astrophysicist to be incompetent because of a belief that scripture says something it was never intended to communicate.

If one is going to refute the astronomers and astrophysicists' calculations of the age of the universe, then one must be prepared to demonstrate exactly where every last one of them erred in making those calculations. And, no, the proof of their alleged error is not found in the 6 days of Genesis 1.

If it didn't have to do with time, then God wouldn't have inspired Moses to use time to show it. The issue is not why it took God 6 days, but just that it did. It is not something that was or is up for discussion by the faithful.
The grammar has been proven to properly connote 6 days much as we understand them today. Remember that the gate is NARROW, and FEW there are that enter in. Genesis communicates exactly what God intended it to convey...His wondrous power of creation and when He did it.

The point is that those who believe what Moses wrote don't try to refute science because most of us don't have the prerequisite knowledge. By the same token though no one who supports the science actually knows it all, but just believes it all. NO one has seen ALL the data sets and I can only surmise that includes everyone of this forum that purports to know. Therefore I believe God despite what unbelievers purport and some believers have given into.

I am with Paul when he states; Let God be true, and every human being a liar.