Oldest and Best, Really??

[RLT63]

Well, deflecting from your hijacking attempt and back to the OP, whose thesis is the original manuscripts of KJV is not worse than older manuscripts of modern translations. To support this, the OP relies on opinion and personal attack of Wescott and Hort.

Bad conversation. I can just imagine you hosting a dinner party. Hey everyone. I left reading material over there by the coffee table. Good material. What? Huh?

When you don’t have an argument you make it about me. You post links too, and highjacking? Who made such a big deal about the name of God?

 

[Wrangler]

When you don’t have an argument you make it about me. You post links too.

Ya, OK. I post links to support my argument, not make it for me. How about we return to the OP?

I may be getting confused between current threads on essentially same topic but I made this point recently. It is preposterous to assert that any ancient document that is closer to the source with fewer copies (generation loss) is less reliable. This is why the vast majority of scholars jettison the Byzantine Manuscripts that formed the basis of KJV/NKJV. From What Makes the Alexandrian Manuscripts that Make Up All Modern Bibles Superior to the Byzantine Manuscripts of the KJV and NKJV?

Nevertheless, most textual critics maintain that those favoring the MT rely heavily on theological arguments and thin objective evidence in their defense of the text.​

 

[Robert Gwin]

It was the tradition of the Jews not to pronounce the name of God and the KJV was following that tradition. “Why Did the Jews Not Say God’s Name Aloud When He Never Said Not To?”

When did that become their tradition Rl. During the apostasy, after the Kingdom was taken from them, and Jesus established a new covenant? How important is Rom 10:13 since your salvation is dependent upon calling upon God's name.

 

[Robert Gwin]

God gave What we perceive to be His name in Hebrew, pronouncing it in Hebrew not in a English translation.

Are you saying God only accepts His name in Hebrew? Who started the multiple languages Him? Why is His name found in every single English version of the Bible, especially in those versions who tried to remove it?

 

[RLT63]

When did that become their tradition Rl. During the apostasy, after the Kingdom was taken from them, and Jesus established a new covenant? How important is Rom 10:13 since your salvation is dependent upon calling upon God's name.

So you have to have the right name like a pass code or a combination to a safe in order to get saved?

 

[RLT63]

Ya, OK. I post links to support my argument, not make it for me. How about we return to the OP?

I may be getting confused between current threads on essentially same topic but I made this point recently. It is preposterous to assert that any ancient document that is closer to the source with fewer copies (generation loss) is less reliable. This is why the vast majority of scholars jettison the Byzantine Manuscripts that formed the basis of KJV/NKJV. From What Makes the Alexandrian Manuscripts that Make Up All Modern Bibles Superior to the Byzantine Manuscripts of the KJV and NKJV?

Nevertheless, most textual critics maintain that those favoring the MT rely heavily on theological arguments and thin objective evidence in their defense of the text.​

Why argue this point with you? You won’t consider any evidence that doesn’t fit your view and this subject has been well covered already

 

[Wrangler]

Why argue this point with you? You won’t consider any evidence that doesn’t fit your view and this subject has been well covered already

For some reason, you keep trying to make this personal. The evidence is in. The KJV is obsolete, both FROM the manuscripts the translation came from; and the TO, no one speaks this way anymore.

This is the reason modern translations use the better Alexandrian manuscripts.

 

[HIM]

What is God's name and what verse says it?

No J when God gave what He would have us call Him regardless of what is in various translations. YHWH is what we know for certain. Beyond that is assumption through tradition. But even if one adds the vowel points from Adonia one does not get Jehovah. One gets Yahowah or Yahovah.

Exod 6:3 “And I appeared to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, as Ěl Shaddai. And by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?


Exod 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Exod 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

 

[HIM]

Are you saying God only accepts His name in Hebrew? Who started the multiple languages Him? Why is His name found in every single English version of the Bible, especially in those versions who tried to remove it?

Silly thing labels. Who shall I say sent me our Father God was asked. And He answered I exist....
I am good with that.

 

[Wrangler]

No J when God gave what He would have us call Him regardless of what is in various translations.

I asked a positive question; what is God’s name and what verse is it in?

Your reply is negative; telling me what his name is NOT.

I will say again that some translations do use the letter you deny. Odd to pile denial on top of denial.

 

[Wrangler]

Silly thing labels. Who shall I say sent me our Father God was asked. And He answered I exist....
I am good with that.

Hmmm. Not quite.

1st, he differentiated himself from other gods in being eternal.

2nd, the nature of the Creator’s existence, eternal, is not merely a label but a defining characteristic. This means, this is how the Creator is different from his creation.

3rd, we are not talking about the label of his defining attribute but his personal name.

He provided his personal name in the very next verse that you refer. Why do you ignore it?

 

[RLT63]

For some reason, you keep trying to make this personal. The evidence is in. The KJV is obsolete, both FROM the manuscripts the translation came from; and the TO, no one speaks this way anymore.

This is the reason modern translations use the better Alexandrian manuscripts.

I think I’ve said enough on this subject. God bless you, have a great day.

 

[RLT63]

I asked a positive question; what is God’s name and what verse is it in?

Your reply is negative; telling me what his name is NOT.

I will say again that some translations do use the letter you deny. Odd to pile denial on top of denial.

YHWH

 

[HIM]

Hmmm. Not quite.

1st, he differentiated himself from other gods in being eternal.

2nd, the nature of the Creator’s existence, eternal, is not merely a label but a defining characteristic. This means, this is how the Creator is different from his creation.

3rd, we are not talking about the label of his defining attribute but his personal name.

He provided his personal name in the very next verse that you refer. Why do you ignore it?

He said I am that I am. Tell them I am sent you in Genesis chapter 3. Then went on to give YHWH as A name in chapter 6. Which is derived from the word that we translate I am mentioned in chapter 3. Coincidence?

And no He does not need to differentiate Himself from other gods because there are no other.

Our Father God is beyond a mere name, label.

How nice to have a box to put everything in....

 

[RLT63]

He said I am that I am. Tell them I am sent you in Genesis chapter 3. Then went on to give YHWH as A name in chapter 6. Which is derived from the word that we translate I am mentioned in chapter 3. Coincidence?

And no He does not need to differentiate Himself from other gods because there are no other.

Our Father God is beyond a mere name, label.

How nice to have a box to put everything in....

I think it’s interesting Jesus always called him Father.

 

[Wrangler]

Our Father God is beyond a mere name, label.

Says you. See @RLT63 post. Wonder where he got that or you already have your answer - in denying the verse AFTER he said he exists, where he explicitly identified his name.

But our Creator did not end there. He went on to say this is the name he is to be remembered for all generations. It seems like you forgot - or want to forget. What’s up with that?

 

[Wrangler]

I think it’s interesting Jesus always called him Father.

Except he also called him his God. John 20:17, Rev 3:2 and in verse 12, Jesus referred to his God 4 times!

To refer to your God 4 times in one verse is really saying something.

It’s interesting that Jesus repeatedly referred to his God.

 

[RLT63]

YHWH

Names of God in the Hebrew Bible

"Names of God in the Hebrew Bible" published on by Oxford University Press.

oxfordre.com

 

[Wrangler]

I recently came across this translation from Names of God Bible (NOG) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

VERSIONS / NAMES OF GOD BIBLE (NOG)
Publisher: Baker Books

Version Information​

The Names of God Bible (NOG) accurately translates the meaning of the original texts into clear, everyday language. While most translations obscure the names and titles of God by replacing them with just a few English words such as God, Lord, or LORD, The Names of God Bible restores the transliterations of ancient names—such as Yahweh, El Shadday, El Elyon, and Adonay—to help the reader better understand the rich meaning of God’s names that are found in the original Hebrew and Aramaic text.

One of the best ways to get to know God on a deeper level is to know his names and titles as they are revealed in Scripture. If you are interested in more information about the meaning of the names of God, the print edition of The Names of God Bible includes commentary by bestselling author Ann Spangler, sharing background information, key Scripture passages, devotional readings, and Bible promises connected to each name.

 

[Jim B]

Looking at Westcott's Commentary on the Gospel of John:

We see these false theologies being promoted by him.

Westcott says of Jesus Christ,

Wescott says from the gospel of John,

So what? Why are you so obsessed with Westcott and Hort's work, which was published in 1881, 141 years ago!? No modern translation (with the sole exception of the Jehovah's Witness New World Translation) is based on their NT translation.