Omnipresence of God

[DNB]

Here is the proof of God manifesting Himself to us as a man...

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


God Bless!

The Holy Ghost is the instigator behind all the miraculous events throughout scripture. Plus, Jesus is the son of the Father, not the son of the Holy Spirit. You can't have it both ways. So you are going into areas that you have not a proper understanding.

Many men throughout scripture have 'El' in their names. It doesn't mean that they are God, obviously.
Plus, more importantly, this is a profound reference to God's abandonment of the Hebrews during the Assyrian & Babylonian captivities.
'God has left the Temple', 'God is not with us anymore', was the common sentiment for centuries. 'Where are the fulfillment of the covenantal promises?' Thus, God answers, 'God with us' God is about to fulfill his Davidic promise.

Ariel: "lion of God"
Daniel: "God is my judge" or "justice from God"
Elias/Elijah: "my God is Yahweh"
Elisha: "my God is salvation"
Elizabeth/Isabel: Hebrew Elisheba = "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance"
Emmanuel/Immanuel: "God is with us"
Ezekiel: "God will strengthen"
Gabriel: "God is my strength"
Ishmael: "God has heard"
Israel: "who prevails with God"
Joel: "Yahweh is God"
Lemuel: "Dedicated/Devoted to God"
Michael: "Who is like God?"
Nathaniel: "God-given" or "gift of God"
Raphael: "God heals"
Samuel: "name of God"
Uriel: "God is my light"

 

[bbyrd009]

Whom is this speaking of?

well, John is referenced, but regardless you have not established "Lord Jesus, Our Creator" any kind of way yet, although Christ is inferred there, yes. Jesus, prolly another thing, wadr, although being as how you currently worship Jesus i doubt this will be entertained.

Why worship the High Priest?
i might ask.

Here is the proof of God manifesting Himself to us as a man...

that is not a great use of the term "proof" i dont think, but believe it or not i even agree with you in a sense here, although our definitions of "Jesus of Nazareth" are not the same anymore. Wadr i would reconsider worshipping our High Priest, ok? peace

 

[user]

The Holy Ghost is the instigator behind all the miraculous events throughout scripture. Plus, Jesus is the son of the Father, not the son of the Holy Spirit. You can't have it both ways. So you are going into areas that you have not a proper understanding.

It seems your trinity theory has a bit of a problem in whom is Jesus Father. In scripture, where Jesus refers to His Father, refers to Jehovah, but here we see (and by your own confession above) the Holy Ghost is the Father...

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

However, this bears no problem at all if you realize the Holy Ghost IS Jehovah / Yahweh...

Yahweh is Holy + Yahweh is Spirit = Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.


God Bless!

 

[user]

well, John is referenced, but regardless you have not established "Lord Jesus, Our Creator" any kind of way yet, although Christ is inferred there, yes. Jesus, prolly another thing, wadr, although being as how you currently worship Jesus i doubt this will be entertained.

Why worship the High Priest?
i might ask.

that is not a great use of the term "proof" i dont think, but believe it or not i even agree with you in a sense here, although our definitions of "Jesus of Nazareth" are not the same anymore. Wadr i would reconsider worshipping our High Priest, ok? peace

"High Priest" is a title, which Jesus has several...

Jesus is the First and the Last.
He is the Alpha and the Omega.
He is the Lion and the Lamb.


Jesus is indeed our creator. Compare the following references:

The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:1-10.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


Thank you,
God Bless!

 

[bbyrd009]

The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:1-10.

none of that supports your theory, sorry; Jesus is not mentioned there, see?

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

and none of those others do, and wadr this does not either.

Now dont get me wrong idc if you worship our High Priest until the day you die, ok; but you will never be a Priest that way, you will just stay a Mithraist, and hope for Death, More Abundantly i guess, sorry.

Your bargain with the grave will not stand

Isaiah 28:18 Lexicon: "Your covenant with death will be canceled, And your pact with Sheol will not stand; When the overwhelming scourge passes through, Then you become its trampling place.

fwiw you may search "Mithraism and Christianity" for more on your current beliefs, whenever you are ready

 

[user]

none of that supports your theory, sorry; Jesus is not mentioned there, see?
and none of those others do, and wadr this does not either.

Now dont get me wrong idc if you worship our High Priest until the day you die, ok; but you will never be a Priest that way, you will just stay a Mithraist, and hope for Death, More Abundantly i guess, sorry.

Whom, pray-tell, is this referring to if it is NOT Jesus?...

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

... wait a sec while I fetch popcorn and 3D glasses ... ok let er rip ...

 

[bbyrd009]

Whom, pray-tell, is this referring to if it is NOT Jesus?

Who is the image of the invisible God, but i doubt you will be convinced after a one liner. You may interpret how you like ok, dont get me wrong, ppl been conflating Father and Son since forever, we call them "Catholics" and they have a Pantheon, and none of that makes them bad or lost, at least as near as i can tell.

Pray to whoever you like, ok, but i would remember that Yah is a jealous God, and you and your sons will be here with me

 

[101G]

I do not believe that God is a trinity either, but nor do I believe that Jesus was God, by any stretch of the imagination.

nor am I a trinitarian, but I do believe that Jesus is God almighty. and here's why I say this. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

clearly the scriptures states that A. Jesus is God, per John 1:1c B. the Word in verse 3 "MADE ALL THINGS", this is Jesus, the word.
now according to this topic heading , "Omnipresence of God". if the Lord Jesus created everything, per John 1:3 then being alone and by himself then there is no one else to be Omnipresence with, and here's why, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

STOP, and THINK. if he was "ALONE", and "by himself", that right there eliminates any persons except the creator of ALL THINGS and Jesus is that creator, now if that don't say that Jesus is the only true and LIVING God then one is calling the bible a lier.

now, if you have another ecplination why JESUS is not God please post it.


PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

It seems your trinity theory has a bit of a problem in whom is Jesus Father. In scripture, where Jesus refers to His Father, refers to Jehovah, but here we see (and by your own confession above) the Holy Ghost is the Father...

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

However, this bears no problem at all if you realize the Holy Ghost IS Jehovah / Yahweh...

Yahweh is Holy + Yahweh is Spirit = Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.


God Bless!

Oh, that's right, I forgot that you were a modalist.
So then, The Holy Spirit (God) came upon Mary, and gave birth to Jesus (God), and thus, the Holy Spirit gave birth to himself, ...because God is all three, but not simultaneously?
Are you trying to drive me insane?

 

[DNB]

nor am I a trinitarian, but I do believe that Jesus is God almighty. and here's why I say this. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

clearly the scriptures states that A. Jesus is God, per John 1:1c B. the Word in verse 3 "MADE ALL THINGS", this is Jesus, the word.
now according to this topic heading , "Omnipresence of God". if the Lord Jesus created everything, per John 1:3 then being alone and by himself then there is no one else to be Omnipresence with, and here's why, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

STOP, and THINK. if he was "ALONE", and "by himself", that right there eliminates any persons except the creator of ALL THINGS and Jesus is that creator, now if that don't say that Jesus is the only true and LIVING God then one is calling the bible a lier.

now, if you have another ecplination why JESUS is not God please post it.


PICJAG.

John 1:1 is using a literary convention called antanaclasis. And, Jesus did not create all things because he was created himself, you aware of the nativity story, right?
Jesus is the first-born of all creation, all things were made for him and with him in mind, and ultimately, for his dominion.
John's emphasis is on the fact that, chronologically, this is not apparent. The Garden of Eden was not God's Word, the Mosaic Law was not God's Word, nor the Abrahamic or Davidic covenants, despite the fact that history made it seem this way.
John is saying that, now, as in 1 AD (4-6 BC), after 4,000+ years of human history, God is finally revealing his Word.
Jesus' mystery is in his chronology, not his ontology.

 

[101G]

John 1:1 is using a literary convention called antanaclasis. And, Jesus did not create all things because he was created himself, you aware of the nativity story, right?
Jesus is the first-born of all creation, all things were made for him and with him in mind, and ultimately, for his dominion.
John's emphasis is on the fact that, chronologically, this is not apparent. The Garden of Eden was not God's Word, the Mosaic Law was not God's Word, nor the Abrahamic or Davidic covenants, despite the fact that history made it seem this way.
John is saying that, now, as in 1 AD (4-6 BC), after 4,000+ years of human history, God is finally revealing his Word.
Jesus' mystery is in his chronology, not his ontology.

FIRST THANKS FOR THE REPLY, SECOND, I SEE WHERE YOU error AT.

#1. Jesus was nevcer born nor created. and here it is. the Son of Man was not born, but the Son of God was. understand, the spirit was was in that flesh was never born.

#2. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "form" means NATURE. the Lord Jesus have the same Nature, not a separate Nature, but the same Nature. listen
FORM:
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

so John 1:1 is no literary convention called antanaclasis. and two

Jesus is the first-born of all creation

Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

now, do you know and understand what "FIRST BORN" means spiritually? it's definitely not physically.

now as we can see from Philippians 2:6 the Lord JESUS have the same NATURE, "Spirit" but only a "diversified" spirit which is proved out in Form root word G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. meaning 1. a portion, which is another word for "share". Jesus is the EQUAL "Share" of the Spirit .... IN .... Flesh.

so the Lord Jesus is no creature, he's the ONLY "ONE" who have eternal LIFE, see 1 Timothy 6:16.

PICJAG.

John is saying that, now, as in 1 AD (4-6 BC), after 4,000+ years of human history, God is finally revealing his Word.
Jesus' mystery is in his chronology, not his ontology.

ERROR, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". that's ontology, just read Philippians 2:6 again.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

#1. Jesus was nevcer born nor created. and here it is. the Son of Man was not born, but the Son of God was. understand, the spirit was was in that flesh was never born.

Jesus was a baby born in a manger, and at twelve, was in the temple discussing with the priests. He grew, ate, defecated, and slept. HE WAS CREATED!!!!!!

#2. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "form" means NATURE. the Lord Jesus have the same Nature, not a separate Nature, but the same Nature.

Jesus was a 1st century man, who's parents had told him of the nature of his miraculous birth, and who read the scriptures and new that the Messianic prophecies were referring to himself. He understood his pre-eminence and ordination as Son of Man. And yet, he did not consider equally with God something to be grasped. That is what it means. Only one who is NOT God, could say such a thing.
Don't split hairs over single words, understand the concept and context being spoken of. A god-man would never have such a thought cross his mind, because according to modalism or trinity theology, it was his idea to come to earth, so why would he think to defy it. And plus, BECAUSE HE IS GOD, i.e. EQUALITY IS SOMETHING TO BE GRASPED. It would make absolutely no sense for a god-man to say such a thing.

Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". now, do you know and understand what "FIRST BORN" means spiritually? it's definitely not physically.

Jesus Christ was the first-born of creation, figuratively speaking, only because chronologically, it's not true. But as far as God's Word is concerned, he definitely, and literally, is the first-born of creation (Colossians 1:15).
Jesus Christ is also the first-born from the dead LITERALLY. He is the first, and only man who has ascended into heaven. No one was allowed into heaven, until Jesus paid the price. But only he is in heaven now, and he is seated at the right-hand side of God, waiting to judge all on Judgement Day.
Jesus is both the first-born of creation (Colossians 1:15), according to the blue-print of God's will. And he is the first-born from the dead, precisely so, as no one preceded him into heaven, and no one has followed him yet. That's why it's called faith in the things unseen.

ERROR, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". that's ontology

Many men throughout scripture have 'El' in their names. It doesn't mean that they are God, obviously.
Plus, more importantly, this is a profound reference to God's abandonment of the Hebrews during the Assyrian & Babylonian captivities.
'God has left the Temple', 'God is not with us anymore', was the common sentiment for centuries. 'Where are the fulfillment of the covenantal promises?' Thus, God answers, 'God with us' God is about to fulfill his Davidic promise.

Ariel: "lion of God"
Daniel: "God is my judge" or "justice from God"
Elias/Elijah: "my God is Yahweh"
Elisha: "my God is salvation"
Elizabeth/Isabel: Hebrew Elisheba = "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance"
Emmanuel/Immanuel: "God is with us"
Ezekiel: "God will strengthen"
Gabriel: "God is my strength"
Ishmael: "God has heard"
Israel: "who prevails with God"
Joel: "Yahweh is God"
Lemuel: "Dedicated/Devoted to God"
Michael: "Who is like God?"
Nathaniel: "God-given" or "gift of God"
Raphael: "God heals"
Samuel: "name of God"
Uriel: "God is my light"

 

[101G]

First thanks for the reply, second, you said,

Jesus was a baby born in a manger, and at twelve, was in the temple discussing with the priests. He grew, ate, defecated, and slept. HE WAS CREATED!!!!!!

Let's take this one step at a time.

#1. JESUS was never born, the "body" that Jesus came in was "BORN", which is called the son of God. but the Son of Man is not from EARTH. supportive scripture, John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world". (BINGO), he's not of this world, he came from HEAVEN. John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all". see DNB, Jesus, "the son of Man", came from HEAVEN, and Jesus the Son of God came out of Mary. that's your mistake. what was BORN is flesh and bone, but JESUS, the Son of Man is Spirit. let's see it, the Son of God. Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". see, it's the son of god that is BORN, and not the Son of man. lets go to the OT scriptures to see this. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

see it now that child that was born, the flesh and bone with blood, "THE OUTER MAN", yes, that was born, but the "Son" is GIVEN, not Born. see the difference. you must understand that there is two states to the LORD JESUS. outward man, and inner man. just like us flesh outward, and inward, spirit. that which was born flesh came out of Mary, but that which was given (son) came from heaven.

now as a diversified oneness we know this from scriptures.

#2. if Jesus was a baby did he lie when he said, John 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad".
now watch what carnal man minds think, John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? see how ignorant they was, they was looking at his flesh, but watch the correction. John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". (BINGO), he was here before abraham, not the flesh because that flesh was prepared for him to come in. Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me". before Jesus came into this world, he is. my God DNB you should have known these things.

understand DNB, God, the Lord Jesus is a "diversity" of himself in flesh. this answer all and every questions concering the Godhead.

so no JESUS, the son of Man is not born.

if you don't response we'll look at your other statements, like who's Jesus parents. in the language of slang, he don't got none ..

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

Jesus, "the son of Man", came from HEAVEN, and Jesus the Son of God came out of Mary.

I cannot for the life accept such an exegesis. Jesus is a man, and God is God, almighty and transcendent. I understand that there are many difficult passages throughout the Bible, that verge on making Jesus a mystical being. But regarding the Scriptures as a whole, they do not convey this, but the opposite. The Son of Man, and the Son of God, are both the exact same thing, they are both identifying Jesus the man. They are interchangeable as much as the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Heaven are identical and interchangeable.

God waited till man was deep within his sins and without hope, revealed through the Law, to send his Pre-Eminent and first-born creature, in order to rectify man's demise, and expose the profound and unsearchable wisdom and will of God. He saved his best creation for last, even though he was actually first. i.e. came from heaven, before Abraham.

Don't lose your head over difficult passages, to the point that you make completely implausible and nonsensical claims. God is transcendent, omnipotent and omniscient, a man cannot be any of these. Every attribute that makes a human, a human, is antithetical to what makes a being divine. The two natures and ontologies are 200% incompatible. End of story.

But, even more importantly, and on a level that most can understand, the Atonement required a peer to Adam in order to effectuate man's redemption. Paul emphasizes this in Romans 5, nowhere does he specify that a god-man was required, nowhere, ever! God exposed Adam's sin, and His justification for condemning him, by sending his 2nd Adam to reveal that total obedience can be achieved. And once Jesus was made perfect through trials and tribulations, supplications and prayers, he was qualified to put to end the Law, which held us all condemned. God cannot do any of this, without making a farce of his judicial system and wisdom. God cannot obey or love himself, in order to exonerate man, complete nonsense.

Appreciate what I am saying 101G, wisdom and the over-arching principle of Scripture, dispels the notion of an incarnation. In other words, even if you could find me 5 passages that said 'Jesus is God', due to the profundity of Christ and the ubiquitous radical language of the Bible, I would still be obligated to give the verses another sense than god-man, trinity or modalism, etc...

 

[marks]

In other words, even if you could find me 5 passages that said 'Jesus is God', due to the profundity of Christ and the ubiquitous radical language of the Bible, I would still be obligated to give the verses another sense than god-man,

Is what you are saying here that even if the Scriptures plainly stated Jesus' deity over and over, your theology would require you to find some other meaning to those places other than what they say? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[101G]

I cannot for the life accept such an exegesis.

that's where you fail. Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

How can you believe in what you don't KNOW.

The Son of Man, and the Son of God, are both the exact same thing,

Again ERROR, your flesh is not YOU, only what you dwell in. listen, say for instance I went to New York with my wife. I decided to walk in centeral park, and while walking, I was rob and killed. the police finds my Idenity and arrives at the hotel where I was residing with my wife. upon arrival they ask her if she will come down to the mogue to identify her A. husband, or her B. husband "body". see the difference now. your body is not you. the police don't ask can you identify your husband, no, but your husband "body". because that body is not her husband.
the terms son of Man and the son of GOD, they are not interchangeable when it comes to NATURE, where in the bible is the Son of man "BORN?" no where, but the Son of God is. ONLY in identification are they only interchangeable, because the body takes on the idenity of the spirit that's in it. but if you can find a vers that say the son of man was born please post it.

Don't lose your head over difficult passages

don't worry I want, answer me this one simple question. you said that Jesus was just a man, ok, answer me this, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". name me one MAN that is "TRUTH". book chapter and verse.

now, Don't lose your head over this difficult passages

and yes we can find over five scriptures that Jesus says he is God, so lets start with the John 14:6 any man who is the truth?

looking to hear from you soon.

PICJAG

 

[DNB]

Is what you are saying here that even if the Scriptures plainly stated Jesus' deity over and over, your theology would require you to find some other meaning to those places other than what they say? Am I understanding you correctly?

Not exactly, i said because of the amount of passages that deny Christ's deity (eg; i can do nothing without the Father), the typical radical language of the Bible, the wisdom behind the true Gospel, so that even if there were 5 passages that said 'Jesus is God', i prudently & wisely, would be forced to give the passage a non-literal meaning.

Just like we do with 'born-again', with 'eat my flesh & drink my blood', to Moses, 'you will be a God to Pharaoh', God is a 'jealous God', Samson's parents 'seeing God and not dying' when it was just an angel. Exodus says God was the burning bush, Steven says it was an angel. Jesus says about the disciple that he loved, 'what if i want him to remain alive until I return'. John the baptist knew for sure who Jesus was because the Holy Spirit told him, later he sends his disciples to ask who he was.
Many strange passages, these are only a fraction and maybe not the best. You should get the idea.

 

[DNB]

How can you believe in what you don't KNOW.

Do you know the difference between divinity & humanity, creator & creature. That is how I know. Not to mention by the majority of Scripture Jesus constantly denies his deity, .'..for I can do nothing unless the father enables me'.

but if you can find a vers that say the son of man was born please post it.

They are interchangeable, just like Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven. I'm not sure what study that you've done where you found that the only time that the 'Son of God' was used, that it was referring to Jesus' humanity, and vice versa with 'Son of Man'? I've found no pattern as such.

answer me this, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

For crying out loud, really? With all the religions and belief systems in the world, you find it to be an unprecedented and deifying claim for Jesus to say 'I am the way, the truth and the life'. All that he is saying is that he is the true religion. All other religions claim to be the way to God, to peace, to Nirvana, to health & prosperity, to love & life. Jesus is saying that belief in him is 'the way' to salvation' That there is no way to the Father, no sacrifice, no commandments, no rituals, no prayers, but only through belief in him. Jesus is saying that belief in him is 'the truth' of God's will. Pilate asked, 'what is truth'. That is, many were seeking it or professing to have it. Was it aristotle's way, plato's way, zoroastrianism, socrates, Moses' Law, etc... No, Jesus was the truth, not money, prestige, meditation, essenes, but Jesus. everyone is seeking which system is true. Jesus is answering a very common question.

You are stretching, and stretching, and stretching, every sample that you gave.
Find me the exact words 'God the Son', or Jesus is God, or Jesus saying 'I am God'. Explicit and emphatic before I even entertain such nonsense.
Why in the world can you not do this?

 

[user]

I cannot for the life accept such an exegesis. Jesus is a man, and God is God, almighty and transcendent. I understand that there are many difficult passages throughout the Bible, that verge on making Jesus a mystical being. But regarding the Scriptures as a whole, they do not convey this, but the opposite. The Son of Man, and the Son of God, are both the exact same thing, they are both identifying Jesus the man. They are interchangeable as much as the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Heaven are identical and interchangeable.

God waited till man was deep within his sins and without hope, revealed through the Law, to send his Pre-Eminent and first-born creature, in order to rectify man's demise, and expose the profound and unsearchable wisdom and will of God. He saved his best creation for last, even though he was actually first. i.e. came from heaven, before Abraham.

Don't lose your head over difficult passages, to the point that you make completely implausible and nonsensical claims. God is transcendent, omnipotent and omniscient, a man cannot be any of these. Every attribute that makes a human, a human, is antithetical to what makes a being divine. The two natures and ontologies are 200% incompatible. End of story.

But, even more importantly, and on a level that most can understand, the Atonement required a peer to Adam in order to effectuate man's redemption. Paul emphasizes this in Romans 5, nowhere does he specify that a god-man was required, nowhere, ever! God exposed Adam's sin, and His justification for condemning him, by sending his 2nd Adam to reveal that total obedience can be achieved. And once Jesus was made perfect through trials and tribulations, supplications and prayers, he was qualified to put to end the Law, which held us all condemned. God cannot do any of this, without making a farce of his judicial system and wisdom. God cannot obey or love himself, in order to exonerate man, complete nonsense.

Appreciate what I am saying 101G, wisdom and the over-arching principle of Scripture, dispels the notion of an incarnation. In other words, even if you could find me 5 passages that said 'Jesus is God', due to the profundity of Christ and the ubiquitous radical language of the Bible, I would still be obligated to give the verses another sense than god-man, trinity or modalism, etc...

Don't know if this will help with understanding, but let's give it a go anyway...
DNB, let's for a moment pretend that you are God. You are spirit and have no flesh and bones, which is needed for you to go to the cross and die for us. You overshadow Mary and she conceives a seed. Mary gives birth to a bouncing baby boy. You being spirit (and omnipresent) inhabit that baby AND remain in heaven (simultaneously). That is how, and why Jesus can say, "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." ... and ... "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."

God Bless!

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't know if this will help with understanding, but let's give it a go anyway...
DNB, let's for a moment pretend that you are God. You are spirit and have no flesh and bones, which is needed for you to go to the cross and die for us. You overshadow Mary and she conceives a seed. Mary gives birth to a bouncing baby boy. You being spirit (and omnipresent) inhabit that baby AND remain in heaven (simultaneously). That is how, and why Jesus can say, "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." ... and ... "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."

God Bless!

dont know if this will help with your understanding, but lets give it a shot eh,
even greater works will you do
I said "you are elohim"
that they may be one as we are one
Jesus hid from them,
and actually quite a few vv from that chapter,
26If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me. Where I am, there My servant also will be. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him

No son of man may die for another's sins
whoever does the will of God, they are the sons of God
Jesus of Nazareth = "John Doe, from Nowhere"
to a rabbi anyway

but were still all like
give me some of that red stew, for i am famished unto death!
right
I desire mercy, not sacrifice

so dont get me wrong ok, teach cult of sol as long as you believe it, but understand
he who says he knows, does not yet know as he ought
and that there surely is no place called heaven for one to "go to" after they have died
There is only one immortal, who lives in unapproachable light