On What day did YOUR Messiah Die?

[Eccl.12:13]

There have been many people, that have come up with strange ways to MAKE what they practice try to fit God's word.

When all they had to do was search God's word to find the right answer. But doing that could cause them to be as an 'outcast' among their family, friends and church.

If you ask most people, "When was Jesus killed?", most will say on "Good Friday." And when asked, "How do you know.", or, "Can you prove that from the scriptures?, most cannot! As a matter of fact, most do not know why they do the things that they do. But they do them anyway.

My Messiah died on the day we now call Wednesday and was raised on the Sabbath Day. On what day did YOUR Messiah die and rise?

Well....for a change, let's let God's word, and God's word alone tell us when Jesus died.

First let's read WHY Jesus had to die.

Isa.53
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

God's word tells us Jesus died for the sins of man.

Now let's read when Jesus died;

Dan.9
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So now we have a day. Daniel tells us that Christ was to die in the middle of the week. For us today that would be Wednesday. Daniel also tells us he shall cause the sacrifice to stop.

Now let's read how long Jesus was to be in the grave;

Matt.12
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 8
[31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

John 2
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

So Matt., Mark, and John all heard the same thing.

Now let's hear Jesus describe a day to us;

John 11
[9] Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Now let's read what happened the moment Jesus died;

Matt.27
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15
[37] And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
[38] And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23
[44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
[45] And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
[46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Now let's read what Mary found, "...While it was yet dark...";

John 20
[1] The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Matt.28
[1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
[5] And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
[6] He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Mary found nothing, because Jesus had risen.


Well...let's review:

• Daniel told us that the Messiah would die, "...in the midst of the week..."
• Daniel told us that the Messiah's death would stop the sacrifice.
• Jesus tells us there are (12) hours in a day.
• Jesus said He would be in the grave for (3) days and (3) nights.
• On the first day of the week, while it was yet dark, Mary found the grave empty.

So let's start putting the pieces together;

Daniel was told that Jesus would die in the middle of the week, so let's start there;

Since Jesus became our Passover, everything that applied to the Passover lamb HAD to apply to Jesus. The Passover lamb HAD to die on the day of the Passover. So according to what was told to Daniel, Jesus had to die sometime between our Tue. evening and Wed. evening. This must be the case because Tue. at sunset starts the next day Wed.

And the moment Jesus died the veil of the temple was torn into (2) parts. No veil means no more sacrifices.

So we have Jesus in the grave BEFORE the sun sets on the day we call Wed. And since we know that Jesus, still calulated a day to be (12) hours we know that He had to be in the grave for a total of (72) hours, (3) periods of day at (12) hours each AND (3) periods of night at (12) hours each; after all, Jesus Himself said, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

So from Wed. at sunset to Thur. at sunset, would give us (1) 24hr period. From Thur. sunset to Fri. sunset would give us (1) 24hr period. And from Fri. sunset to Sat.sunset would give us (1) 24hr. period. So that would cover the time that Jesus said He would be in the grave; 3 days AND 3 nights.

And what did Mary find when she went to Jesus tomb, while it was yet dark? Nothing! Because just as Jesus said, He would ONLY be in the grave for (72) hours, 3 days and 3 nights and not a second more.

Just as Jesus had to be in the grave BEFORE the sun set, He also had to be out of the grave BEFORE the sun set.

That would mean that Jesus rose from the grave on the Sabbath day. Yes!!!! The same Sabbath day that He set aside and made Holy. The same Sabbath day that He said will be observed forever. The same Sabbath that He said the following of;

"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."

Now all of what we just read goes hand in hand with everything in God's word. We did not have to go to an outside source to understand anything. We did not have to look up and try to find what the "Jews of the day" did, or how the "Jews of the day measured time.", because Jesus already told us; (12hrs). We didn't have guess what day it was because it was already told to Daniel; (the midst of the week).

All we had to do was to use the information God gave us and a little common sense.


My Messiah died on the day we now call Wednesday and was raised on the Sabbath Day. On what day did YOUR Messiah die and rise?




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[tomwebster]

[...
Since Jesus became our Passover, everything that applied to the Passover lamb HAD to apply to Jesus. The Passover lamb HAD to die on the day of the Passover. So according to what was told to Daniel, Jesus had to die sometime between our Tue. evening and Wed. evening. This must be the case because Tue. at sunset starts the next day Wed.
....

This part is incorrect. Passover was the High Holy Sabbath and NO work could be done. It would have been against the law to kill and roast a lamb on Passover. The lamb was killed several days before and prepared the day before. Read the preparation instructions in Exodus. And,as you said, Passover was celebrated starting at sundown on the 14th day of the solar year.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

This part is incorrect. Passover was the High Holy Sabbath and NO work could be done. It would have been against the law to kill and roast a lamb on Passover.

Exod.12
[2] This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
[3] Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
[4] And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
[5] Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

The Passover lamb was to be kept alive until it was time for it to die; on the Passover at evening.

And again with the following verses......

Deut.16
[6] But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

2Chr.35
[1] Moreover Josiah kept a passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem: and they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month.

Ezra 6
[19] And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month.
[20] For the priests and the Levites were purified together, all of them were pure, and killed the passover for all the children of the captivity, and for their brethren the priests, and for themselves.


The Passover was the Preparation day for the following day, which was the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The 1st day of the Feast was a high sabbath day, not the Passover. Let's read it.....

Lev.23
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
[7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
[8] But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Now let's go to the NT to see if it changed....

Matt.26
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

And how did they make ready the passover? Let's read...

Mark 14
[12] And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22
[1] Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
[7] Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

And finally the next verse tells us that the day BEFORE the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened bread was a preparation day..

John 19
[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The day BEFORE the 1st Day of the Feast of Unlevened bread is the Passover, the day to prepare for the feast. Just as it was done in the OT.

Lev.23
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

The Passover day, is the day used to prepare for the following day; the 1st day of the Feast of Unlevened bread. Let's read it...

[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
[7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

The day AFTER the Passover day is a High Sabbath day. We know this because it is on this day that no work is to be done.




.

 

[horsecamp]

Good friday


I almost got sucked into Herbert W. Armstrong's heresies because of this. He got a lot of mileage out of the fact that Good Friday to Easter Sunday doesn't add up to the ``three days and three nights'' required by Mt. 12:40. Well, as a matter of fact, yes it does. Please consider the following exercise in interpretation.

Mt. 12:38. Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law said to Him, ``Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you.'' He answered, A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of man shall be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

To us, ``three days and three nights'' would be from sunrise one day to sunrise 72 hours later. But to a Hebrew, each day starts with the evening before (Genesis 1:5).

That should shake you up a bit. Let's shake you up some more. In Esther 4:16 we read that Esther commanded the people to fast and pray for her for three days and three nights before her visit to the king. But in chapter 5 we read that she went to see him on the third day -- that is 48 hours later or what WE would call TWO days and TWO nights. This is neither because Esther couldn't wait any longer nor because the people got too hungry. It's because the Jews count time differently. It's because the Jews count any part of a day as the whole thing. It's because the Jews call any day or any part of a day ``a day and a night.'' And we can see from the fact that there were only TWO dark periods in the 48-hour stretch which she calls ``three days and three nights'' that the Jews extended their time-reckoning back to the sunset preceding the first daylight.


read rest here


http://www.grace-els.org/confirmation/interpretation/node9.html

 

[veteran]

He's right about the day of our Lord Jesus' crucifixion and burial, but not His time of resurrection.

And the Dan.9:27 Scripture has nothing to do with Christ's crucifixion.


John 19:30-31
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished": and He bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
(KJV)

Christ was crucified to the hour of the OT passover sacrifice, in the evening just prior to the sun going down. Per Hebrew reckoning, the next day that would begin at sunset was a high sabbath because of the passover. So they rushed to get His body off the cross and buried. So that day was not the normal 7th day sabbath, but a high holy day to be reckoned as a high sabbath per the Exodus requirement.


Mark 16:9
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven devils.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus rose on the first day of the week, a Sunday.

John 20:1
1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
(KJV)

Since the new day began at sunset and ended at the next sunset, that first day of the week, still being night, had to mean it was sometime before dawn on Sunday. That starts the count back to discover what day our Lord was crucified using our Lord's proclamation of being in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights...

Wendsday at sunset = Jesus buried

Thursday from sunset to dawn = 1st night
Thursday dawn to sunset = 1st day

Friday from sunset to dawn = 2nd night
Friday dawn to sunset = 2nd day

Saturday from sunset to dawn = 3rd night
Saturday dawn to sunset = 3rd day

Sunday from sunset but before dawn, Jesus rose

 

[Foreigner]

Eccl, it may be worth responding to one of your threads if you yourself would answer the question(s) you put forth..

 

[tim_from_pa]

Again, I agree with the Wednesday crucifixion theory, but all confusion would go away if people just understood the Hebrew calendar. Jesus came into Jerusalem to fulfill Nisan 10 when they took the lamb into their midst. He was crucified late on Nisan 14 which is Passover, and interred by sundown to start and fulfill Unleavened bread Nisan 15. Since he said he'd be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, he'd have to be in there until Nisan 17 ended to rise Nisan 18 exactly 3 days after Unleavened Bread started, making Nisan 15,16,17 the 3 days or "third day". Working backwards, we know that Firstfruits always occurred on the "morrow after the Sabbath" during Passover week. That made Sunday Nisan 18, thus Nisan 14 would have been a on Wednesday. Tonight (April 18/19) is Passover BTW.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Eccl, it may be worth responding to one of your threads if you yourself would answer the question(s) you put forth..

Sometimes I present questions without answers with the hope that those reading will get their bibles out and do just a little reading and searching for themselves.

That was not the case with this lesson. Your question let's me know that you didn't read the entire thread.

I answered the question in the beginning of this lesson AND at the end.

Here it is for the 3rd time!

"My Messiah died on the day we now call Wednesday and was raised on the Sabbath Day. On what day did YOUR Messiah die and rise?"


.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

He's right about the day of our Lord Jesus' crucifixion and burial, but not His time of resurrection.

Wendsday at sunset = Jesus buried

Thursday from sunset to dawn = 1st night
Thursday dawn to sunset = 1st day

Friday from sunset to dawn = 2nd night
Friday dawn to sunset = 2nd day

Saturday from sunset to dawn = 3rd night
Saturday dawn to sunset = 3rd day

Sunday from sunset but before dawn, Jesus rose

I don't know about your messiah, but my Messiah is pretty exact....No.....make that PERFECT!!!!

And my Messiah was put into the grave BEFORE the sun went down on the day we now call Wednesday.

Wed. evening before sunset to Thur, evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Thur. evening before sunset to Fri. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Fri. evening before sunset to Sat. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)

And (3) days and (3) nights later, just BEFORE the sun went down again He was raised......on the Sabbath day! He is PERFECT! There is no, "...somewhere between dusk and dawn..." with Christ.

He HAD to be raised from the grave exactly at that time, because if didn't He would not have lived up to what He said. In other words He would have lied.

But if you would like to continue to believe that your messiah rose from the grave on the day we call Sunday, continue to do so.

But beware of what you teach others;

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:"


.

.

 

[Joshua David]

I get so spiritually tired when I go to Christian forums and read some of the posts. Now please don't get me wrong. I love talking about the bible, but when I read comments like...

My Messiah died on the day we now call Wednesday and was raised on the Sabbath Day. On what day did YOUR Messiah die and rise?

... I just don't want to join into the conversation. Because this is the exact attitude that pervades every Christian forum that I have found. People think that THEY have figured out the ultimate truth, and anyone who dares disagree with them, must be serving a different god, or different Jesus.


Now I will admit that I haven't read through this thread, but all I see is the same arguments and attitudes. Everyone says, "this isn't MY interpretation, this is the true word of God, because I had the HOLY SPIRIT guide me in my study."


If we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he paid for our sins by his blood on the cross, and that he died and rose again, then we are all brothers and sisters, even if your interpretation is different than mine, or if mine is different than yours. Just because someone disagrees with you, such as believing that Jesus died of Friday, instead of Wednesday, doesn't mean that..


1. They serve a different Jesus.
2. That they serve a different God.
3. That they don't hear the Holy Spirit.
4. That the Holy Spirit hasn't taught them things about the scripture
5. That they don't study the Word of God.
6. That they are stupid, or have no common sense.
7. That they are absolutely wrong.
8. That they lost
9. That they are demon possessed.
10. That they are serving the devil.


Now I am not saying that Eccl. is claiming all these things, just that his style of posting is similar to the people who do say these things, and have said those things to me, when I dared disagree with their 'interpretation'


Now here is the shocker.... I actually agree with Eccl.'s premise in that I believe that Jesus was crucified on wed. But while I agree with his premise, I just don't agree with his posting style.


But let me say this to Eccl personally. Maybe you didn't intend to post that in that style.. Perhaps I am totally misreading this entire post. And if so, please forgive me... I am suffering from a 2 day long headache ( I get them alot ) and that does tend to affect how I react to things. I find that I have a disturbing tendency to over-react to things. I just needed to vent so that I could get on to joining into the conversation. But if I have misjudged you, then please don't take offense.


Just know that this particular failing of mine comes from an overwhelming desire to have mutually respectful conversations with my brothers and sisters in Christ. Where different interpretations are respected even if they are not agreed to.


This is the reason that I believe that the crucified happened on a Wed.


I believe that the Passover was celebrated on Thursday of that week. This would have been considered a high Holy Day, and it would have been considered a Sabbath, where no work could be done, just as if it was a regular Sabbath on Saturday.


Let's look at the scripture.


Luke 23:53-56 [sup]53[/sup]And he took it down (Jesus' body), and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. [sup]54[/sup]And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

[sup]55[/sup]And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

[sup]56[/sup]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


This clearly states that Jesus died on the preparation day, which is the day before the Sabbath. Then the sabbath drew on. What does this term mean? It means that there was another Sabbath, a Sabbath that occurred before the regular Saturday Sabbath.They saw the body was laid in the tomb. The women returned and prepared spices and ointments and then rested on the sabbath according to the commandment.


Now wait a minute, how do we know that the term "and the Sabbath drew on" refers to another sabbath? What if it means that the Sabbath was coming up? That would make the preparation day Friday, which is right in line with what is commonly thought right? Well it would except for one thing.. look at verse 56. It states that the women returned and prepared the spices and ointments before the Sabbath, and then rested the sabbath day.


I know, I know, you are saying.. So what? To find why this is important, we need to look in the book of Mark.


Mark 16:1 [sup]1[/sup]And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.


So according to Mark, the women didn't buy the spices until after the Sabbath, and according to Luke, they prepared the spices, then rested on the Sabbath.


I only see two possible answers to this problem.


1) Either Mark or Luke was wrong. Which I don't agree with since I believe that the scriptures are inerrant. or
2) There was a Holy Sabbath on Thursday, and Jesus died before the first Sabbath.


I believe that Jesus died on Wednesday, which was the preparation day (which is the same day that the passover lamb is slain by the way). I believe that he was buried at the very end of that day. Jesus' body laid in the tomb on the Sabbath, which was Passover, this was the first night and day. On friday, the day after the Sabbath, the women went and bought the spices, and prepared them for Jesus, this was the second night and day. Then rested on Saturday, this was the third night and day.


Now let's address horsecamp's post.

That should shake you up a bit. Let's shake you up some more. In Esther 4:16 we read that Esther commanded the people to fast and pray for her for three days and three nights before her visit to the king. But in chapter 5 we read that she went to see him on the third day -- that is 48 hours later or what WE would call TWO days and TWO nights. This is neither because Esther couldn't wait any longer nor because the people got too hungry. It's because the Jews count time differently. It's because the Jews count any part of a day as the whole thing. It's because the Jews call any day or any part of a day ``a day and a night.'' And we can see from the fact that there were only TWO dark periods in the 48-hour stretch which she calls ``three days and three nights'' that the Jews extended their time-reckoning back to the sunset preceding the first daylight.

[font="tahoma][size="3"]Let's take a closer look at Esther, shall we. Did Esther command her people to fast for three days and three nights? Let's look at the scripture in question[/size][/font]
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[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]Esther 4:16 [/size][/font][sup]16[/sup]Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.


I am not saying that you are wrong in your assertion, because I am not an ancient Hebrew scholar. And I have to admit that I have heard other bible scholars make the same claim that you did. But the way that I see it, Esther did not command her people to fast three days and three nights. She commanded her people to fast three days, neither day or night. What is the distinction? The distinction is in the word day. The Hebrew word for day can be used in two different ways, much like the English word day can be used. Both word can refer to either the entire calendar day or it can just mean the daylight hours of the day.


To get the meaning of the word, we have to look at the context at which it was used. For instance, if I told you, "After working in the field, the farmer came inside when the day was done." You know that the word day refers to just the daylight hours, because it would not make sense to take that sentence to imply that the farmer came in after midnight.


Now just looking at the scripture, it would seem that your interpretation would be correct, in that Ester was implying 3 days and 3 nights, but I think it is just as likely to mean to fast for 3 continuous daylight hours, continuous in the fact that they were not to break their fast during the evening hours. In other words, the first period of daylight hours, then the night, the second period of daylight hours, then the night, and the third period of daylight. Which would be a total of 3 days, and 2 nights. Knowing what time the evening meal was, it would make sense to me for everyone to understand that there would be no need to fast that last night. Because either the queen would be successful, and accomplish what she needed to do, or she would not be, which means she would be dead. Either way, fasting would not have mattered either way.


But I do admit that Esther could be read either way, because the emphasis is on the ambiguous term 'day'. This is not the same situation that we have with Jesus' words. Jesus was very clear, he not only put the emphasis on the term day, but he also put emphasis on the term night.


We know that the word day here means daylight hours, because it is contrasted by the term night. So in essence, what Jesus was saying was that He will be in the earth for 3 periods of daylight hours, and 3 periods of nighttime hours. He did not say, I will be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and nights. And if he would have said that, then I would agree with you. He said, three days and three nights. The only reason to add that second 'three' in there is to quantify the word night. Therefore, even if you say that a part of something is enough to qualify as the whole, you still have the problem of there was no part of the third night possible, going from Friday to Sunday.


The only possible scenario that fits all the scripture is a Wed crucifixion


Joshua David


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[veteran]

I don't know about your messiah, but my Messiah is pretty exact....No.....make that PERFECT!!!!

And my Messiah was put into the grave BEFORE the sun went down on the day we now call Wednesday.

Wed. evening before sunset to Thur, evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Thur. evening before sunset to Fri. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Fri. evening before sunset to Sat. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)

And (3) days and (3) nights later, just BEFORE the sun went down again He was raised......on the Sabbath day! He is PERFECT! There is no, "...somewhere between dusk and dawn..." with Christ.

He HAD to be raised from the grave exactly at that time, because if didn't He would not have lived up to what He said. In other words He would have lied.

But if you would like to continue to believe that your messiah rose from the grave on the day we call Sunday, continue to do so.

But beware of what you teach others;

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:"

I agree that my Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth was crucified on Wendsday and buried just prior to sunset. But at sunset began Thursday per the Hebrew calendar reckoning, and it was a high sabbath as John 19 so states. No work was to be done on that day, and that's why they rushed while it was still daylight to prepare His body for burial.

Thus the first night-time count began at sunset. You do realize that when the sun sets it turns to night don't you?

Wendsday ended at sunset, and Thursday began at sunset, so...

Thursday from sunset to dawn = 1st night
Thursday from dawn to sunset = 1st day

Friday from sunset to dawn = 2nd night
Friday dawn to sunset = 2nd day

Saturday sabbath from sunset to dawn = 3rd night
Saturday sabbath dawn to sunset = 3rd day

Sunday from sunset to dawn = 1st day of the week when my Lord Jesus Christ rose and appeared to Mary, as written.

Mark 16:9
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven devils.
(KJV)

John 20:1
1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
(KJV)

As for your accusations, they are false. You are the one teaching falsely, disagreeing with the Scripture as written that Christ Jesus rose early on "the first day of the week", a Sunday, not Saturday.

Sorry that that conflicts with your apparent need to center everything around a worship of the sabbath day. Jesus rose on a Sunday, which is the first day of the week, not on the sabbath day.

 

[tim_from_pa]

For those that believe Jesus arose on the Sabbath, I have to respectfully ask what the feast of Firstfruits then represents if that was the day after the Sabbath? Why would Firstfruits not then fall on the Sabbath?

I think we're just mincing hours and possibly just minutes here, but I'll give you what I believe is the exact timeline.....

Crucified and died Nisan 14 late in the Jewish day.
Buried at the very late end of Nisan 14. As a matter of fact, when that stone rested into it's place and sealing the tomb, the sun just set. This begins Nisan 15. This fulfills the Unleavened Bread feast day (interment) and is the start of the first day in the tomb. There he stayed 3 days and 3 nights until the sun just set Saturday night, he arose fulfilling Nisan 18, the feast of Firstfruits (15+3=18 no doubt)

49 days later (since the 18th is counted as the first day) is the 50th day of Pentecost, also on Sunday.

An astute reader of the bible can clearly read between the Lord's lines and understand why these two feasts did not have a specific date attached to them like the other feasts --- they were movable taking place on the morrow after the Sabbath.

 

[veteran]

...
This is the reason that I believe that the crucified happened on a Wed.

I believe that the Passover was celebrated on Thursday of that week. This would have been considered a high Holy Day, and it would have been considered a Sabbath, where no work could be done, just as if it was a regular Sabbath on Saturday.


Let's look at the scripture.


Luke 23:53-56 [sup]53[/sup]And he took it down (Jesus' body), and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. [sup]54[/sup]And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

[sup]55[/sup]And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

[sup]56[/sup]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


This clearly states that Jesus died on the preparation day, which is the day before the Sabbath. Then the sabbath drew on. What does this term mean? It means that there was another Sabbath, a Sabbath that occurred before the regular Saturday Sabbath.They saw the body was laid in the tomb. The women returned and prepared spices and ointments and then rested on the sabbath according to the commandment.


Now wait a minute, how do we know that the term "and the Sabbath drew on" refers to another sabbath? What if it means that the Sabbath was coming up? That would make the preparation day Friday, which is right in line with what is commonly thought right? Well it would except for one thing.. look at verse 56. It states that the women returned and prepared the spices and ointments before the Sabbath, and then rested the sabbath day.


I know, I know, you are saying.. So what? To find why this is important, we need to look in the book of Mark.


Mark 16:1 [sup]1[/sup]And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.


So according to Mark, the women didn't buy the spices until after the Sabbath, and according to Luke, they prepared the spices, then rested on the Sabbath.


I only see two possible answers to this problem.


1) Either Mark or Luke was wrong. Which I don't agree with since I believe that the scriptures are inerrant. or
2) There was a Holy Sabbath on Thursday, and Jesus died before the first Sabbath.


I believe that Jesus died on Wednesday, which was the preparation day (which is the same day that the passover lamb is slain by the way). I believe that he was buried at the very end of that day. Jesus' body laid in the tomb on the Sabbath, which was Passover, this was the first night and day. On friday, the day after the Sabbath, the women went and bought the spices, and prepared them for Jesus, this was the second night and day. Then rested on Saturday, this was the third night and day.

...

We know that the word day here means daylight hours, because it is contrasted by the term night. So in essence, what Jesus was saying was that He will be in the earth for 3 periods of daylight hours, and 3 periods of nighttime hours. He did not say, I will be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and nights. And if he would have said that, then I would agree with you. He said, three days and three nights. The only reason to add that second 'three' in there is to quantify the word night. Therefore, even if you say that a part of something is enough to qualify as the whole, you still have the problem of there was no part of the third night possible, going from Friday to Sunday.


The only possible scenario that fits all the scripture is a Wed crucifixion


Joshua David

And that's very correct.

There were 2 sabbaths in that same week. Most of the confusion about this came from not following the Hebrew calendar reckoning for a day starting at sunset. And then the rest came from not understanding the high day of the passover from Exodus was to be a sabbath.

But because of Mark 16:9, Jesus rose on a Sunday (first day of the week) right after the sabbath. That means He rose sometime after sunset on Sunday night, but before Sunday dawn.

 

[veteran]

And my Messiah was put into the grave BEFORE the sun went down on the day we now call Wednesday.

Wed. evening before sunset to Thur, evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Thur. evening before sunset to Fri. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)
Fri. evening before sunset to Sat. evening before sunset = (1day & 1night)

Your error is with counting Saturday as the time He rose when Saturday (Fri. sunset to next sunset = Saturday) was the required 3rd night and 3rd day in the count. But per your reckoning that Jesus rose just before Saturday ended at sunset, that would be ON the 3rd day, not AFTER the 3rd day.

Even in your day listing above you included Saturday night and day as the 3rd day and night, going directly against what even you yourself posted.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

But because of Mark 16:9, Jesus rose on a Sunday (first day of the week) right after the sabbath. That means He rose sometime after sunset on Sunday night, but before Sunday dawn.

As I said before, My God was in the grave for exactly 72hrs. He was put in the grave just before sunset and he was raised exactly 72hrs. later just before sunset.

Let's look at the verse you provided, understanding that punctuation marks was something that was 'added' to the scriptures.

"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

Does this state in any way that Jesus was risen on the first day of the week? No! It simply says that Jesus was already up and out of the grave and EARLY that morning Mary saw Him.

Let's look at it again....

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

Again....does reading it this way say that Jesus was risen on the first day of the week? No!

Could Jesus have risen just before sunset? Of course! As a matter of fact He HAD to be out of the grave before sunset......anything after would have been MORE than 3 days and 3 nights.

But as I always say....I'm not hear trying to change the minds of those that have a strong belief in what they were taught. That's God job!

I'm just presenting lessons to those that may not know there is another way than what man's traditions have given them.

And what man has given concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus; Fri. to Sun. does NOT line up with the word of God.

God told us to keep HIS feast as a memorial, not man's traditions!


.

 

[veteran]

As I said before, My God was in the grave for exactly 72hrs. He was put in the grave just before sunset and he was raised exactly 72hrs. later just before sunset.

Let's look at the verse you provided, understanding that punctuation marks was something that was 'added' to the scriptures.

"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

Does this state in any way that Jesus was risen on the first day of the week? No! It simply says that Jesus was already up and out of the grave and EARLY that morning Mary saw Him.

The punctuation has nothing to do with it. The full count of 3 days and 3 nights for Christ's body in the tomb does...

Matt 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(KJV)

Does our Lord Jesus say 3 days and 2 nights, or 2 days and 3 nights? NO.

But 2 days and 3 nights is exactly what your reckoning count comes out to, just SO you can TRY and change the day of Christ's resurrection from Sunday (the first day of the week), to a sabbath Saturday. So pushing your men's traditions accusations around to try and prove your point won't work.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Still awaiting for answer to post #12....... :mellow:


I'll add a little clue here..... Jesus did not have to rise on the sabbath to justify keeping the Saturday Sabbath. Firstfruits and Pentecost occurred on Sundays, but that is only TWO DAYS to worship on, not a whole year-load of Sundays. So I am not trying to justify changing the Sabbath at all, as the Sabbath stands on its own.

Another little clue, as I always say that "mathematics says it all". Sunday is not only the first day, but also known as the 8th day --- a number symbolic of new beginnings and resurrection.

 

[Faithful]

The start of the the three days were Thursday when Christ was arrested. If you check the actual wording it states

2.And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

This was the grave the place away from Gods presence. Christ was clearly out of Gods presence before he died.
"why hast thou forsaken me"

John 7:38 (King James Version)

38.He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jonah knew he was doomed to die there was not way back from his position. He was in the grips of death.
Christ shows that within the person the belly is their heart.

Christ did not just suffer on the cross. His suffering started from the moments in the garden when he sweated blood and they arrested him.
The penalty he suffered was the full penalty of the law. His arrest and his cup he took from the moment he said. Not my will but your will.

Only those accused are arrested and brought to trial. From the moment Jonah was thrown overboard and swallowed he was in the throws of death.

Faithful.

 

[Templar81]

Traditional CHurch teaching is good enough for me. I will stick with it as I see there is no cohearant argument against it.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Tomwebster.....No reply to post #3 of this thread?

As a matter of fact, when that stone rested into it's place and sealing the tomb, the sun just set.

Jesus was put into the grave BEFORE the sun went down, so as not to break God's commandment.

And 72hrs later, at the same time He was put into the grave He rose!

Jesus died and was buried on the Passover.


.