Once save always saved? yes / no?
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(excepttruth;65052)
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
Depends entirely on how you define it, and to what lengths you believe it goes.
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
Depends entirely on how you define it, and to what lengths you believe it goes.
tim_from_pa
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- Jul 11, 2007
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This subject was beaten to death already on this forum.Here's one example that ended up locked:http://www.christianityboard.com/osas-t634...?highlight=OSASI noticed that OSAS, predestination vs free choice, and the rapture are subjects that can spin out of control. And all these were beaten to death already (just do a search).I personally tend to avoid these subjects even though I have my beliefs, but just to show how emotional it can get, I actually claimed that both sides existed with the predestination and free choice thing. I also claimed it would be dogmatic to side with either. That's basically it. One can't get more open-minded (and yet scriptural) to agree with both sides.However, one person had to call me the close-minded one (go figure) and chewed me up one side and down the other. I ended up putting them on my ignore list because in real life I'm easy to get along with to the point that I can get trampled on. I was not going to let someone else be abusive when I can just click them away--- I had more control of this here.Moral of the story: Just watch what sensitive topics that get picked. Even an easy-going fellow can get dragged into things. I'm not scolding, just forewarning.
(excepttruth;65052)
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
Yes and No, but the way most OSAS if not all goes... it mostly comes on itching ear. So I say 99.9% of the time is based on man's opinions of their ignorance interpretation.II Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;Why?John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.Then we have this...Matthew 7:13 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:...Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
Yes and No, but the way most OSAS if not all goes... it mostly comes on itching ear. So I say 99.9% of the time is based on man's opinions of their ignorance interpretation.II Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;Why?John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.Then we have this...Matthew 7:13 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:...Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
tomwebster
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- Dec 11, 2006
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(excepttruth;65052)
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
I believe the whole OSAS argument depends on the reading of John 3:16 and Eph 2:8 Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: This is what I am trying to get at: believeth in him Is the Him referring only to Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection? or is it referring to all that Christ is as the Word of God, or actually having knowledge and understanding of the Word of God?through faith Through faith in what? Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection? or is it referring to all that Christ is as the Word of God, or actually having knowledge and understanding of the Word of God?If we are diligent in reading and understanding His letter to us, I think we can say, "Once we are saved, and continue in our daily walk with Him by reading His Word with understanding, which in tern requires the Holy Spirit living in us, we will always be saved." Salvation is a continuous verb, it is not a onetime act. It's like turkey on Thanksgiving, you eat a lot and get filled up, but if that is the only time you eat you will starve to death eventually. Does that make sense?"Eph 2:8 For by grace (tēi gar chariti). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in Eph_2:5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pisteōs). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in Eph_2:5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. Again, salvation is totally from God, it's His action, and He will never fail. He also gives the ability to have faith but we need to do the inacting of the faith He gives."Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved, through faith - As ye are now brought into a state of salvation, your sins being all blotted out, and you made partakers of the Holy Spirit; and, having a hope full of immortality, you must not attribute this to any works or merit of yours; for when this Gospel reached you, you were all found dead in trespasses and dead in sins; therefore it was God’s free mercy to you, manifested through Christ, in whom ye were commanded to believe; and, having believed by the power of the Holy Spirit, ye received, and were sealed by, the Holy Spirit of promise; so that this salvation is in no sense of yourselves, but is the free gift of God; and not of any kind of works; so that no man can boast as having wrought out his own salvation, or even contributed any thing towards it. By grace arc ye saved, through faith in Christ. This is a true doctrine, and continues to be essential to the salvation of man to the end of the world.But whether are we to understand, faith or salvation as being the gift of God? This question is answered by the Greek text: τῃ γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως· και τουτο ουκ εξ ὑμων· Θεου το δωρον, ουκ εξ εργων· ἱνα μη τις καυχησηται· “By this grace ye are saved through faith; and This (τουτο, this salvation) not of you; it is the gift of God, not of works: so that no one can boast.” “The relative τουτο, this, which is in the neuter gender, cannot stand for πιστις, faith, which is the feminine; but it has the whole sentence that goes before for its antecedent.” But it may be asked: Is not faith the gift of God? Yes, as to the grace by which it is produced; but the grace or power to believe, and the act of believing, are two different things. Without the grace or power to believe no man ever did or can believe; but with that power the act of faith is a man’s own. God never believes for any man, no more than he repents for him: the penitent, through this grace enabling him, believes for himself: nor does he believe necessarily, or impulsively when he has that power; the power to believe may be present long before it is exercised, else, why the solemn warnings with which we meet every where in the word of God, and threatenings against those who do not believe? Is not this a proof that such persons have the power but do not use it? They believe not, and therefore are not established. This, therefore, is the true state of the case: God gives the power, man uses the power thus given, and brings glory to God: without the power no man can believe; with it, any man may." Adam Clarke Commentary on the Bible
Once saved always saved? What do you think?
I believe the whole OSAS argument depends on the reading of John 3:16 and Eph 2:8 Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: This is what I am trying to get at: believeth in him Is the Him referring only to Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection? or is it referring to all that Christ is as the Word of God, or actually having knowledge and understanding of the Word of God?through faith Through faith in what? Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection? or is it referring to all that Christ is as the Word of God, or actually having knowledge and understanding of the Word of God?If we are diligent in reading and understanding His letter to us, I think we can say, "Once we are saved, and continue in our daily walk with Him by reading His Word with understanding, which in tern requires the Holy Spirit living in us, we will always be saved." Salvation is a continuous verb, it is not a onetime act. It's like turkey on Thanksgiving, you eat a lot and get filled up, but if that is the only time you eat you will starve to death eventually. Does that make sense?"Eph 2:8 For by grace (tēi gar chariti). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in Eph_2:5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pisteōs). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in Eph_2:5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. Again, salvation is totally from God, it's His action, and He will never fail. He also gives the ability to have faith but we need to do the inacting of the faith He gives."Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved, through faith - As ye are now brought into a state of salvation, your sins being all blotted out, and you made partakers of the Holy Spirit; and, having a hope full of immortality, you must not attribute this to any works or merit of yours; for when this Gospel reached you, you were all found dead in trespasses and dead in sins; therefore it was God’s free mercy to you, manifested through Christ, in whom ye were commanded to believe; and, having believed by the power of the Holy Spirit, ye received, and were sealed by, the Holy Spirit of promise; so that this salvation is in no sense of yourselves, but is the free gift of God; and not of any kind of works; so that no man can boast as having wrought out his own salvation, or even contributed any thing towards it. By grace arc ye saved, through faith in Christ. This is a true doctrine, and continues to be essential to the salvation of man to the end of the world.But whether are we to understand, faith or salvation as being the gift of God? This question is answered by the Greek text: τῃ γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως· και τουτο ουκ εξ ὑμων· Θεου το δωρον, ουκ εξ εργων· ἱνα μη τις καυχησηται· “By this grace ye are saved through faith; and This (τουτο, this salvation) not of you; it is the gift of God, not of works: so that no one can boast.” “The relative τουτο, this, which is in the neuter gender, cannot stand for πιστις, faith, which is the feminine; but it has the whole sentence that goes before for its antecedent.” But it may be asked: Is not faith the gift of God? Yes, as to the grace by which it is produced; but the grace or power to believe, and the act of believing, are two different things. Without the grace or power to believe no man ever did or can believe; but with that power the act of faith is a man’s own. God never believes for any man, no more than he repents for him: the penitent, through this grace enabling him, believes for himself: nor does he believe necessarily, or impulsively when he has that power; the power to believe may be present long before it is exercised, else, why the solemn warnings with which we meet every where in the word of God, and threatenings against those who do not believe? Is not this a proof that such persons have the power but do not use it? They believe not, and therefore are not established. This, therefore, is the true state of the case: God gives the power, man uses the power thus given, and brings glory to God: without the power no man can believe; with it, any man may." Adam Clarke Commentary on the Bible
Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you." Read the whole chapture of course. But the natural branches are the Jews and the ones grafted in are non-Jewish chirstians.Hebrews 6:4-6 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves teh Son of God, and put Him to open shame."Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there are no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. how much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
(Sasha;65079)
Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you." Read the whole chapture of course. But the natural branches are the Jews and the ones grafted in are non-Jewish chirstians.Hebrews 6:4-6 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves teh Son of God, and put Him to open shame."Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there are no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. how much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
Hebrews 6:4-6 is being twisted. In fact, it has some meaning changed to that verse, according to the translation you chose, it has changed some of God's Words. It's not impossible for God to do anything.Hosea 14:4 - I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.I John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you." Read the whole chapture of course. But the natural branches are the Jews and the ones grafted in are non-Jewish chirstians.Hebrews 6:4-6 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves teh Son of God, and put Him to open shame."Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there are no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. how much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
Hebrews 6:4-6 is being twisted. In fact, it has some meaning changed to that verse, according to the translation you chose, it has changed some of God's Words. It's not impossible for God to do anything.Hosea 14:4 - I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.I John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
no, but in practice those who claim it in my experience do not differ much from my own beliefs. One who "falls away" becomes someone to them that was never saved to begin with. So am not sure in the bigger picture why it is such a big deal.
cedarhart
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waquinas Experienced Evangelist "no, but in practice those who claim it in my experience do not differ much from my own beliefs. One who "falls away" becomes someone to them that was never saved to begin with. So am not sure in the bigger picture why it is such a big deal."Must agree with this. I have always felt that once a Child of God knows Christ, there is NO WAY that soul could ever stray. If they do "slide", they know to repent and re-bond asap. If they are able to turn their back on Christ, they never really knew Him in the first place. :naughty:Cedarhart
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