Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
He was not lying, they also understood what he meant..
Not all of those things have happened yet. so if he was talking about their generation. I guess yes. He did lie!!
Once saved, always saved is a myth.
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He was not lying, they also understood what he meant..
Not all of those things have happened yet. so if he was talking about their generation. I guess yes. He did lie!!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
At the time of great tribulation or the time back in the 1st century?
Yes, they are considered the “wicked generation “ to have killed the Son of God.
Well that is something you have to address with yourself. As a reader of the Bible, I believe they have come to fruition, in absolute faith.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Address myself?
Maybe lets look at the passage in question.
Matt 24: 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
The disciples asked three questions.
1. When will these things happen (Spoke of the no stone left)
2. what will be the sign of your coming (his return)
3. What will be the sign of the end of the age
Jesus answers -
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
You can see here, Jesus is speaking about the last question. "the end is not yet" and he is telling them everything that will happen between the time Jesus spoke these words. and the events which will be coming..
We are still in this time today. It was NOT about what would happen before 70 AD in THAT generation.
9 “Then
You see here. Jesus said AT THAT TIME (THEN)
they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
We see again, THE END is what Jesus is discussing. a time in the yet future. well the world will come to Chaos, Lawlessness will about. love will grow cold. People will turn their own families in, etc etc. A time yet in the future what many call the great tribulation. Where those at that time who endure these suffering and live, will be saved.. (physically, not spiritually)
The Jesus continues about the time right before he returns, the signs they asked for.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Here is the sign of the "then" Jesus spoke of..When THEY see the abomination of desolation standing in the temple. That has not happened yet. This is different from the account in Luke. which spoke of 70 AD
16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
He tells those people to run. Because then the world will be thrown into great tribulation. that it will be so bad that if Christ does not return, no flesh would survive. Again, this has not happened yet.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.Here he answers the second question. the sign of his coming, he tells US that if people say he has come. do not believe them, for this is HOW he will return (again, this has not happened yet)
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.And here is the verse in question.
1. When you see all the things jesus spoke of (Wars and rumors of wars, Famines, Pestilence, Natural disasters, nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, The love of people growing cold. lawnessness abounding, The abomination of desolation, And the great tribulation) Know that as the branches are putting on leaves showing us that summer is here. Know that those living in those days know that the return of Christ is near..
2. THOSE LIVING AT THAT TIME can know this, THAT GENERATION will not pass until all those things take place.
So yeah, i already addressed it. You need to address it yourself. Jesus was NOT talking about the disciples and their generation.. Because NON of the things has happened yet.. to this DAY!
It’s nothing personal @Eternally Grateful.
You are the one who said, Jesus did lie to his disciples. If he lied to them. Why should I even trust Jesus?
I disagree with your assessment. It’s okay to disagree.
Secular writers also wrote about what Jesus spoke of, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Cassio Dio. Not sure you may be interested in reading of that material though.
You are the one who said, Jesus did lie to his disciples. If he lied to them. Why should I even trust Jesus?
I disagree with your assessment. It’s okay to disagree.
Secular writers also wrote about what Jesus spoke of, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Cassio Dio. Not sure you may be interested in reading of that material though.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Does not changed the truth. If you disagree, show where I am wrong
You have an issue either way
1. He meant their generation. yet all those things did not happen in their generation. so he lied about that
2. He meant the future generation (as proven by the text) so he lied about it all happening in their generation (in 1 century AD)
He did not lie at all in my presentation of what the word said.
Okay. That is the only difference. If your upset cause I disagree, idk what to say.
Either Jesus spoke within 40 years things which would happen did, or did not.
Secular writers also wrote about what Jesus spoke of, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Cassio Dio. Not sure you may be interested in reading of that material though.
@Eternally Grateful I don’t find it difficult to believe faithfully that in the day of the destruction of Jerusalem, those who were part of the bride witnessed him, and were taken out from the tribulation they were having. It is promised never to happen again. There is no document saying “Jesus came” it’s something one has to instill faith in, and consider the times of Israel in that day, with that generation.
Secular writers also wrote about what Jesus spoke of, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Cassio Dio. Not sure you may be interested in reading of that material though.
Secular writers also wrote about what Jesus spoke of, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Cassio Dio. Not sure you may be interested in reading of that material though.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am not upset. what makes you think that?
They did not. anyone can look at history and know they did not.
All I have to do is look at history..
those things did not happen.
Maybe you should open your mind,
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1. There was no abomination of desolation in 70 AD.. The armies surrounded the city (luke)
2. There were not wars and rumors of wars between 30 AD and 70 AD, Nation did not rise against nation nore kingdom again kingdom in those 35 - 40 years)
3. The things Jesus said was the beginning of sorrows, (literally birth pangs) did not happen in those 35 - 40 years
4. There was no great tribulation so severe that all life on earth was threatened in 70 AD. Causing Christ to return, and gather his elect from the 4 corners of the earth.
Nothing that occurred in that day had anything to do with the generation Jesus spoke of.
You saying these things doesn’t make me believe any different. Just because you suggest them. It just makes Jesus to me be a liar not to come back and get his bride. It seems you ignore my addressing people you could check out, but that is too much work for anyone to do…
What is your proof other than saying no it didn’t happen?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I guess the facts do not matter
He will come back to get his bride.. That time has not come back yet.
sorry. But your the one making Jesus a liar
Why would I need to go there? Are they going to show me anything that I do nt already know
What proof?
What proof do you have they did happen?
I do nto need to prove they did not happen.. only that they COULD not have happened in that time frame.
now. you on the other hand, if your saying I am wrong. You need to prove they did happen.
I disagree with, but you’re right, I do need to prove it. The question is does Secular history matter to you? And without any documentation of Jesus having been confirmed to return, does that leave your own faith in question; if the things promised by Jesus came to fruition?
You continue to just say it couldn’t have happened in that time frame? Are you someone whom expects a third temple? Why would it be impossible for them not to have happened?
When it comes to Revelation it could take a year or two to go through properly. It’s a very Jewish book, written to a specific churches which are warned of the coming quickly of Jesus.
So many continue today to believe he is coming for us today in this time because of reasons.
1. The belief they have in that Jesus is coming to destroy the world.
2. The belief that they continue to see that this world is not yet reconciled to God and thus Jesus still needs to come.
3. The belief that you are one of the elect and are gonna be taken.
The more one takes in what people say in what they believe and they continue to stay there without any changing. They never move on from traditions of men.
That is what I’m standing against - the traditions of the teachings of man. That continue from the pulpit saying believe in Jesus or you are going to hell, when he comes back… etc… etc…
So many continue today to believe he is coming for us today in this time because of reasons.
1. The belief they have in that Jesus is coming to destroy the world.
2. The belief that they continue to see that this world is not yet reconciled to God and thus Jesus still needs to come.
3. The belief that you are one of the elect and are gonna be taken.
The more one takes in what people say in what they believe and they continue to stay there without any changing. They never move on from traditions of men.
That is what I’m standing against - the traditions of the teachings of man. That continue from the pulpit saying believe in Jesus or you are going to hell, when he comes back… etc… etc…
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Of course it does
And secular history proves me right.. There is nothing in the history books that show any of those events happened between 33 AD and 70 AD.
Jesus did not return.. so I am not sure of your question.
Wars and rumors of wars, nation rising against nation.
Do you know secular history? Rom was in charge during 33 AD and 70 AD.. no nation rose against it or any other nations. There was no rumor of wars or even any wars.
Do you understand birth pangs and what happened when a lady starts having them? Can you show where in 30 to 40 years these things Jesus would happen kept getting worse and worse? and remember, Jesus said when we see those things happen. the end is not even yet.
As for a third temple.
There was no aod IN 70 ad. Let alone one everyone could see standing in the Holy Place.
So there must be one rebuilt (they are very close to building it now as we speak in fact)
so why would you think one would not be built?
Why leave out Josephus written content concerning the Roman and Jewish war? It’s significant to the time.
You may continue to say no, no, no to me. I’m already set in my own decision. Jesus wouldn’t have lied to those people, to consider them never to be taken or never witness him coming by their faith and believing and waiting to be patient…
To me is just again, saying Jesus is a liar, and so are the Apostles who continued the good news and where in charge of the bride before it was taken… I believe that John the beloved was even taken at this time.
There is no battle here with you, you can continue to believe Jesus is still coming; (it doesn’t effect my own personal life any), that is your decision.
@Eternally Grateful the object of desolation is the uprising of a civil war, or something to that nature (i would have to go back and study to make sure). Roman and Jewish war seems appropriate there, written by Josephus.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1 war?
Yet according to you he did lie.
I am just stating what was said. Yes we know you are set in your belief..
So why are you calling Jesus a liar then?
I will believe the word.. He is still coming just like he said he was
You can continue to think he already came. But then I will wonder why he has not done what he promised he would do when he returns.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
Jesus said when you see IT STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.
for once. Take Jesus at his word..
5 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)
He also said, whoever reads let HIM understand,,
He was talking about people who would later read these words..
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