Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

FAITH = A GIFT FROM GOD, FOR a mans Belief.
THE FAITHFUL = those WHO HAVE given their life TO GOD, and GOD has GIFTED THEM WITH FOREVER LIFE and FOREVER FAITHFULNESS TO HIM!!

And NOWHERE in Scripture do we read that this gift cannot be thrown away.

So, lots of people BELIEVE....BUT have FAILED to COMMIT and become RECONCILED!

Salvation IS NOT a GIFT for angels.
They do not require SAVING. THey were created HOLY.
And there IS no Salvation provision FOR angels who have fallen away from God.

So, unbelievers DO WORKS? They do not Glorify Gods Name, nor shall those works be rewarded.

Precisely.
Faith = Belief + obedience (works).

HOWEVER, being flawed humans, we can turn our backs on it, as the Scriptures warn us . . .
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Of course the demons believe, they were once angels and were in Heaven, they have seen God and the glory of Heaven. This scripture is taken out of context. Demons can't repent, their fate is sealed and they are not humans - This is different than the state of humans. The works James is talking about is the fruit of righteousness. If we are Christians then clearly we will be showing fruit of the life we have in Christ.

The faith James is talking about is married to belief.
That's why Luther called it "The Epistle of Straw" and wanted it removed from his German translation.

 

[LC627]

The faith James is talking about is married to belief.
That's why Luther called it "The Epistle of Straw" and wanted it removed from his German translation.

So when you get to Heaven will you be able to say, "ahh my good works helped me get here?"

 

[BreadOfLife]

So when you get to Heaven will you be able to say, "ahh my good works helped me get here?"

Nope.
I hope to hear God say:

Msatt. 25:21
"Well DONE, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master’.

 

[Taken]

And you keep ignoring the fact that once the gift is received - it can be returned.

EVERYBODY is invited to receive the gift of Redemption and be saved.
EVERYBODY is also free to throw it away after having received it.

That's what the BIBLE says . . .

No. That is what YOU say.

A man who has received the Lords Gift of Salvation.....HELLO...IS A NEW MAN!

Do tell us the Scriptural Reference that specifically notifies us A NEW MAN can AGAIN become the THE OLD MAN.

I'll wait.

 

[LC627]

Nope.
I hope to hear God say:

Msatt. 25:21
"Well DONE, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master’.

We can look forward to that day with joy

 

[Taken]

And NOWHERE in Scripture do we read that this gift cannot be thrown away.

BOL - Scripture doesn't use the words "thrown away".... but again....that IS what one is doing, BY NOT AGREEING to receive the Gift of Salvation.

You are attempting to make the Lord out to be an UNKNOWING IDIOT and LIAR.

Are you completely UNAWARE, there are several GIFTS that are given a man ......
ONCE a man decides to BELIEVE IN HIS HEART and CALL ON THE Lord and GIVE his LIFE to the Lord?

I have listed the SEVERAL Gifts numerous times FOR YOU.

Do you really think the Lord so FOOLISH and UNKNOWING What men TRULY BELIEVE or WILL BELIEVE during their life-time?

Do you really think the Lord WILL allow ANY man to Receive His Gifts and then mock and shame Him by openly rejecting Gifts He has given them?

Do you really think every man WHO SAYS, whoo hoo, I believe, IS confessing from his Heart? Here's a clue.....MANY MEN are LIARS, and CONFESS, WITHOUT belief, and may fool other men, but they do not fool God.

Do some research on Priests, on Pastors, who are "coming out" "openly shaming themselves" and proclaiming "THEY NEVER Believed"....

Precisely

.
Faith = Belief + obedience (works).

Faith is a Gift from God for Belief.
Rewards are a Gift from God for Works.

You try to roll them together, and they aren't.

God provided a WAY for the Hebrews and Jews to COME INTO Gods FAVOR. Some did, some didn't. Jesus did not destroy their Laws, SO THEY CAN STILL, come into Gods Favor, THROUGH the Law.
And IF you are familiar with their LAWS....
EVERY violation of the LAW, was a SIN....
FOR THEM!!
And Repeatedly they were required to, by and through TRADITIONS and CUSTOMS, to Repent and AKS forgiveness FOR their SINS.

THAT ^ has nothing to DO with a Gentile.

THAT is what YOU do.....as was taught the OT Jews to do.

While the Jewish Apostles were TEACHING JEWS ...... JESUS' "WAY" of forgiveness and salvation......PAUL the Apostle, with Jewish AND Gentile background, was chosen to TEACH the Gentiles.......JESUS' "WAY".

Where are the TRADITIONS and CUSTOMS, TO continuously ASK Gods FORGIVENESS?
TO OBEY Jewish LAWS?
TO FORGIVE MEN of SIN?

They do not exist for a GENTILE....

IF you are at all familiar with the Legalities of a LAW....which is to say....
A LAW without FORCE and EFFECT IS MOOT.

Jesus' WAY, DID NOT LEAVE OUT JEWS to have opportunity to Believe and Trust IN Him.

And ALL Jews WHO elected TO follow Jesus' teaching, believe IN Him, believe IN their heart, HE IS THEIR CHRIST Lord and Savior...

Jesus REDEEMED them from the CONSEQUENCES of the CURSE SIN LAWS.
Which is to say, their LAWS that provided a SIN consequence IS MOOT! No force and no effect.

Thus THEY ALSO, Like a Submissive Gentile, become Forgiven of all of their sins, AND ...
Hello....that old sinful flesh IS DEAD, crucified!

You want to KEEP the OLD MAN alive and kicking. And you teach, a man has the power, (greater than God), to AGAIN become that OLD MAN.

Sorry dude. But the Lord is not fooled. These so called Pastors, who had a church, who had a congregation, who stood before their congregation and " preached ".... now proclaiming they did not believe, do not believe....WERE NEVER SAVED. And it is no different with men who have been water baptized before witnesses....IF they never believed in their heart, and became reconcilled.

It is the Lords WAY that prevails.
It is the Lords WORD that prevails.

Look how many times the disciples....doubted, didnt't believe, denied....

Do you think one day they believed and were saved, and the next day they denied and threw their salvation back in the Lords face?

No. They were LEARING something new. It is mans design, to mull things over in their mind....weigh information that makes sense to their mind. Believe this, then not believe.

The Lord LOOKS to a mans HEARTS thoughts.
And ONCE A MANS HEART is ready to CONFESS....the MAN himself makes the choice and election.

THAT is WHEN Christ begins reconcilation, the cleansing of unrighteousness, the forgiveness,
The Gift giving of numerous gifts....that are not revoked!

HOWEVER, being flawed humans, we can turn our backs on it, as the Scriptures warn us . . .
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

Sure a man can turn his back on the Lord AND His gifts......But do not confuse that with such a man having received the Lord and His Gifts....AND THEN REJECTING THE Lord, making Him a fool and a liar.

Our Lord IS ALL KNOWING. Men are not with the power to make the Lord a liar!

Scriture is clear....."IF" one becomes Converted.......He is a New man forever.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL - Scripture doesn't use the words "thrown away".... but again....that IS what one is doing, BY NOT AGREEING to receive the Gift of Salvation.
You are attempting to make the Lord out to be an UNKNOWING IDIOT and LIAR.
Are you completely UNAWARE, there are several GIFTS that are given a man ......
ONCE a man decides to BELIEVE IN HIS HEART and CALL ON THE Lord and GIVE his LIFE to the Lord?
I have listed the SEVERAL Gifts numerous times FOR YOU.
Do you really think the Lord so FOOLISH and UNKNOWING What men TRULY BELIEVE or WILL BELIEVE during their life-time?
Do you really think the Lord WILL allow ANY man to Receive His Gifts and then mock and shame Him by openly rejecting Gifts He has given them?
Do you really think every man WHO SAYS, whoo hoo, I believe, IS confessing from his Heart? Here's a clue.....MANY MEN are LIARS, and CONFESS, WITHOUT belief, and may fool other men, but they do not fool God.
Do some research on Priests, on Pastors, who are "coming out" "openly shaming themselves" and proclaiming "THEY NEVER Believed"....
Faith is a Gift from God for Belief.
Rewards are a Gift from God for Works.
You try to roll them together, and they aren't.

God provided a WAY for the Hebrews and Jews to COME INTO Gods FAVOR. Some did, some didn't. Jesus did not destroy their Laws, SO THEY CAN STILL, come into Gods Favor, THROUGH the Law.
And IF you are familiar with their LAWS....
EVERY violation of the LAW, was a SIN....
FOR THEM!!
And Repeatedly they were required to, by and through TRADITIONS and CUSTOMS, to Repent and AKS forgiveness FOR their SINS.
THAT ^ has nothing to DO with a Gentile.
THAT is what YOU do.....as was taught the OT Jews to do.
While the Jewish Apostles were TEACHING JEWS ...... JESUS' "WAY" of forgiveness and salvation......PAUL the Apostle, with Jewish AND Gentile background, was chosen to TEACH the Gentiles.......JESUS' "WAY".
Where are the TRADITIONS and CUSTOMS, TO continuously ASK Gods FORGIVENESS?
TO OBEY Jewish LAWS?
TO FORGIVE MEN of SIN?
They do not exist for a GENTILE....
IF you are at all familiar with the Legalities of a LAW....which is to say....
A LAW without FORCE and EFFECT IS MOOT.
Jesus' WAY, DID NOT LEAVE OUT JEWS to have opportunity to Believe and Trust IN Him.
And ALL Jews WHO elected TO follow Jesus' teaching, believe IN Him, believe IN their heart, HE IS THEIR CHRIST Lord and Savior...
Jesus REDEEMED them from the CONSEQUENCES of the CURSE SIN LAWS.
Which is to say, their LAWS that provided a SIN consequence IS MOOT! No force and no effect.
Thus THEY ALSO, Like a Submissive Gentile, become Forgiven of all of their sins, AND ...
Hello....that old sinful flesh IS DEAD, crucified!
You want to KEEP the OLD MAN alive and kicking. And you teach, a man has the power, (greater than God), to AGAIN become that OLD MAN.
Sorry dude. But the Lord is not fooled. These so called Pastors, who had a church, who had a congregation, who stood before their congregation and " preached ".... now proclaiming they did not believe, do not believe....WERE NEVER SAVED. And it is no different with men who have been water baptized before witnesses....IF they never believed in their heart, and became reconcilled.
It is the Lords WAY that prevails.
It is the Lords WORD that prevails.
Look how many times the disciples....doubted, didnt't believe, denied....
Do you think one day they believed and were saved, and the next day they denied and threw their salvation back in the Lods face?
No. They were LEARING something new. It is mans design, to mull things over in their mind....weigh information that makes sense to their mind. Believe this, then not believe.
The Lord LOOKS to a mans HEARTS thoughts.
And ONCE A MANS HEART is ready to CONFESS....the MAN himself makes the choice and election.
THAT is WHEN Christ begins reconcilation, the cleansing of unrighteousness, the forgiveness,
The Gift giving of numerous gifts....that are not revoked!
Sure a man can turn his back on the Lord AND His gifts......But do not confuse that with such a man having received the Lord and His Gifts....AND THEN REJECTING THE Lord, making Him a fool and a liar.
Our Lord IS ALL KNOWING. Men are not with the power to make the Lord a liar!
Scriture is clear....."IF" one becomes Converted.......He is a New man forever.

WRONG.
You preach a false, man made gospel that is only about 500 years old.

The weight of Scripture is against you because the Bible is crystal clear that we can be born again - then walk away and LOSE everything by our own doing.

The only guarantees in Scripture are conditional on OUR enduring in faith.
We're on page 140 now and it STILL hasn't sunk into your head yet . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We can look forward to that day with joy

That's what hope is all about, my friend.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. That is what YOU say.

A man who has received the Lords Gift of Salvation.....HELLO...IS A NEW MAN!

Do tell us the Scriptural Reference that specifically notifies us A NEW MAN can AGAIN become the THE OLD MAN.

I'll wait.

I've shown you those verses about 5 dozen times on this thread alone.
Here they are - AGAIN . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.[/QUOTE]

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I've shown you those verses about 5 dozen times on this thread alone.
Here they are - AGAIN . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

[/QUOTE]
Rev 3:5 is born again.

 

[Taken]

WRONG.
You preach a false, man made gospel that is only about 500 years old.

No. Jesus' Gospel is older than 500 years.
And I agree with Jesus' Gospel.

The weight of Scripture is against you

No. That would APPLY to one who does not AGREE with the Word of the Lord or TRUST Him.

because the Bible is crystal clear that we can be born again - then walk away and LOSE everything by our own doing.

You have yet to show A verse that provides this Crystal Clear evidence that a man BORN of God, "CAN" be plucked out of Gods Hand.

The only guarantees in Scripture are conditional

I have already revealed the Scriptural CONDITIONS, for a NATURAL MAN, to become Spiritually and Forever Reconciled with Christ.

on OUR enduring in faith.

A Jews FAITH IS Conditional....
...That he Continue in Obedience to the LAW
Or
...Like me Has given his Life to the Lord.

Seems Like YOU follow after the Condition provided a JEW, who must Continue in Obedience TO the Law.

I don't have THAT Condition. I have already
Given MY LIFE "TO" the Lord.
It is His Power that "FOREVER" "KEEPS" me in Faithfulness.

We're on page 140 now and it STILL hasn't sunk into your head yet . . .

I don't deny Faithfulness is paramount.
I simply do not fall under the SAME APPLICATION, as it APPLIES to a Jew UNDER the Law.

 

[Taken]

I've shown you those verses about 5 dozen times on this thread alone.
Here they are - AGAIN . . .

Yes, you have posted these Scriptures umpteen times. And umpteen times, you have been refuted.

Romans 11:22

“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

No, Paul is NOT warning the "faithFUL".

Paul IS WARNING, the Gentiles of Gods Kindness TOWARD Gentiles, that they (GENTILES) are being Grafted IN to His PEOPLE....HOW....and WHY.

You pick a verse, then YOU decide they ARE saved and born again. Scripture didn't.

Read and Study Romans.
Discover WHO is being spoken TO in each verse, and WHAT is being APPLIED to THEM.

Every single verse DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE MAN.

Learning HOW and WHY a Gentile is being Grafted IN....IS NOT a CONCLUSION that SAVES a MAN.

Why is Paul SPEAKING TO GENTILES?
Rom 12:13

So he can SAVE the SAVED? No.
He is TEACHING THEM something they DID NOT KNOW.

The Hebrews, the Jews, are Gods CHOSEN "ISRAEL", ie HIS PEOPLE.

And EVEN SOME OF HIS PEOPLE, STOPPED believing............AND WERE CUT OFF!

The teaching IS ABOUT HEARING what Paul is teaching......AND for them to BELIEVE, and NOT WALK AWAY IN "DISBELIEF".... FOR IF they DO WALK AWAY.....

THEY SHALL BE CUT OFF, JUST AS "HIS CHOSEN" were CUT OFF, for falling AWAY, in DISBELIEF.

BELIEF IS A BEGINNING for a man.
IT IS NOT the man Receiving Salvation...
IT IS the man Receiving Knowledge!!

Lots of men receive KNOWLEDGE, and walk away. Paul is WARNING, one MUST CONTINUE receiving KNOWLEDGE, CONTINUE receiving the gift of FAITH from God, (which a man DOES, who CONTINUES LEARNING and BELIEVING).....AND ONCE the mans HEART becomes FULL of Gods Gift of Faith....the man IS PREPARED, to SUBMIT to the Lord......

AND RECEIVE Salvation and the Seed of God.......WHICH THEN, the man "HAS" received "EVERLASTING" LIFE "WITH" the Lord.

You have "STUDENTS", who are "babes" in KNOWLEDGE, saved and born again....
WHEN THEY ARE NOT.

You have a FEW issues, YOU refuse to address.

1)
You completely ignore, the STUDENT phase of a man, Knowing nothing about the Lord, to him LEARNING About the Lord, THEN ACTUALLY Submitting His Life TO the Lord.

You have a Student First hearing, and being warned to Continue hearing and learning......saved and born again....when he isn't.

2)
WHERE is YOUR Scriptural Verse of ONE MAN, in Romans 11.....saying HE HAS given his life to the Lord?

Your TAKE on Scripture, Fails to divide the WORD of Truth.

Your own structured religion, Had someone else DECIDING FOR YOU, declaring FOR YOU, that you were BORN AGAIN....and you have NO MEMORY of such event.

And NOW, you teach YOU MUST DO WORKS, in order to BE SAVED.

^ THAT is a PRECISE text book example of WHAT APPLIES to a JEW, WHO remains UNDER the LAW.

Paul was teaching GENTILES...Gentiles were being Grafted IN........NOT BY WORKS....
(Rom 11:6)
BUT rather BY....HIS GRACE!!!

Be A Student. Learn what APPLIES TO A GENTILE. Learn what APPLIES TO A JEW.

And what you SHOULD discover IS...
It all hinges on an INDIVIDUAL'S BELIEF, and CONTINUED BELIEF..."until such time the Individual SUBMITS HIS OWN LIFE "TO" the Lord".....

THEN shall the Lord CONVERT the INDIVIDUAL, and FOREVER KEEP that INDIVIDUAL in FAITH-FULLNESS to God ...
FOREVER, and EVER...

BY the POWER OF GOD HIMSELF.

Your teaching that "STUDENTS" just hearing about the Lord God Almighty....BEING Saved and Born Again......IS FAULTY and IN ERROR.

Take a LESSON from Judas.
He followed. He believed. He fell from faith.
He betrayed Jesus. He stood Against Jesus.

Gee.....How could THAT BE?
According to YOU...because he believed and followed .... HE WAS SAVED AND BORN AGAIN.
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE....he was a follower, believing, and then walked away...
NOTHING whatsoever reveals "HE" submitted his life TO the Lord.

He was a STUDENT....and walked away...and thus LOST the Salvation that was prepared for him to receive.

AND THAT IS ANOTHER THING....

You teach, YOU HAVE TO Receive Salvation...
BEFORE you can LOSE Salvation.

That is completely FALSE.

The Truth IS....
Jesus provides the Gift of Salvation FOR EVERYONE....

It is theirs to CLAIM and RECEIVE.

IF they do not claim it and Receive it.....
THEY LOSE it.

And IF they claim it and Receive it......
THEY HAVE it ....... FOREVER.....less you think the Lord a LIAR.

 

[Taken]

I've shown you those verses about 5 dozen times on this thread alone.
Here they are - AGAIN . . .



2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Once again you grab a Scripture....and completely take it out of context.

WHO is Peter speaking TO?
Jews....

Jews WHO are gaining the Gift of Faith.
Jews...

WHY are they gaining FAITH?
Because they are CONTINUING IN LEARNING.

AND? Once again THEY ARE BEING WARNED, to KEEP in Belief.....KEEP receiving the gift of FAITH from God.....KEEP in the Direction the Word of God is Leading them.

WHY?

2 Pet 1 tells you.

So their GRACE will be multiplied....
Which is real handy, since it is though Gods Grace toward a man WHO LEARNS and Continues following, that the Lord gives the man FAITH.

As told you before, it is when the man has received a fullness of FAITH in his heart, the man IS PREPARED to CHOOSE TO submit to the Lord.

You have men who are beginning to LEARN, already saved and born again. Scripture doesn't.

Peter is teaching men KNOWLEDGE....so that they WILL RECEIVE the promises of being PARTAKERS of the DIVINE NATURE, that a man RECEIVES "WHEN" he submits to the Lord, and becomes CONVERTED.
1 Pet 1: 4

You have men BEING WARNED, about receiving KNOWLEDGE, they walking away, ALREADY having received Salvation and the Seed of God.

WHERE DOES ONE MAN declare they were prepared or DID give their Life to the Lord?

Where IS THEIR VOICE and Declaration?

Do you think Peter teaching knowledge and warning them.....IS HOW a man IS SAVED...?
Saved without the man EVER having make his own election?

That is NONSENSE.
That is simply teaching A PREACHER saves men simply because he is Preaching.

THAT IS FALSE.

Men individually have to DECIDE to submit their OWN life to the Lord...or not.

I will not bother with the rest of your verses..
They all fall under the same false understanding, that SAVED and BORN AGAIN MEN can be PLUCKED OUT OF THE Lords Hand, which IS FALSE.

I addressed your first TWO scriptures.
You respond. You show definitively
THEY WERE SAVED.

On 2 Pet 2....you are preaching they had all knowledge......WOW......how awesome....
Jesus Spent 3 years teaching the disciples KNOWLEDGE, and WOW, they were NOT SAVED during that time....

But you have men who have a few sermons in complete knowledge, and have them submitted to the Lord........
but uh, Scripture doesn't.

 

[LC627]

The chain of redemption...foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified....(Rom. 8:28,29). All of this is done by God and not by any action of us.

A true believer will produce "fruits of righteousness" - works do not make us righteous nor maintain salvation but are evidence of salvation. Are you advocating for your salvation? Are you making intercession on your behalf? Faithfulness naturally follows the believer. Also, even if it appears a person "fell" there is only one unforgivable sin mentioned in the Bible - Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Although it would be sad if a believer got entangled in the world it doesn't mean they would be lost - Man can't undo what God did - Salvation is done by God. We can grieve the Holy Spirit but I do not believe we can break that seal. (Eph. 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption"

Does this mean I use my freedom to sin? No. Not at all. I love God, I desire to serve Him and be faithful to Him alone.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Rev 3:5 is born again.

Yup.
So - how can God "blot out" a name if that person didn't do something to lose their position??
A name can ONLY be blotted out if it was there to begin with.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. Jesus' Gospel is older than 500 years.
And I agree with Jesus' Gospel.

No - you agree with Luther and Calvin's Gospel - NOT that of Jesus.
Jesus and His apostles preached that we CAN lose our security. Please don't make me post that long list again . . .

No. That would APPLY to one who does not AGREE with the Word of the Lord or TRUST Him.
You have yet to show A verse that provides this Crystal Clear evidence that a man BORN of God, "CAN" be plucked out of Gods Hand.
I have already revealed the Scriptural CONDITIONS, for a NATURAL MAN, to become Spiritually and Forever Reconciled with Christ.
A Jews FAITH IS Conditional....
...That he Continue in Obedience to the LAW
Or
...Like me Has given his Life to the Lord.
Seems Like YOU follow after the Condition provided a JEW, who must Continue in Obedience TO the Law.
I don't have THAT Condition. I have already
Given MY LIFE "TO" the Lord.
It is His Power that "FOREVER" "KEEPS" me in Faithfulness.
I don't deny Faithfulness is paramount.
I simply do not fall under the SAME APPLICATION, as it APPLIES to a Jew UNDER the Law.

According to Scripture - EVERYBODY'S faith is conditional on the endurance of that faith - NOT just the Jews.
As I asked you before - PLEASE don't make me post that long list that NONE of you has been able to address . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Once again you grab a Scripture....and completely take it out of context.
WHO is Peter speaking TO?
Jews....

Jews WHO are gaining the Gift of Faith.
Jews...
WHY are they gaining FAITH?
Because they are CONTINUING IN LEARNING.
AND? Once again THEY ARE BEING WARNED, to KEEP in Belief.....KEEP receiving the gift of FAITH from God.....KEEP in the Direction the Word of God is Leading them.
WHY?
2 Pet 1 tells you.

So their GRACE will be multiplied....
Which is real handy, since it is though Gods Grace toward a man WHO LEARNS and Continues following, that the Lord gives the man FAITH.

As told you before, it is when the man has received a fullness of FAITH in his heart, the man IS PREPARED to CHOOSE TO submit to the Lord.

You have men who are beginning to LEARN, already saved and born again. Scripture doesn't.

Peter is teaching men KNOWLEDGE....so that they WILL RECEIVE the promises of being PARTAKERS of the DIVINE NATURE, that a man RECEIVES "WHEN" he submits to the Lord, and becomes CONVERTED.
1 Pet 1: 4

You have men BEING WARNED, about receiving KNOWLEDGE, they walking away, ALREADY having received Salvation and the Seed of God.

WHERE DOES ONE MAN declare they were prepared or DID give their Life to the Lord?

Where IS THEIR VOICE and Declaration?

Do you think Peter teaching knowledge and warning them.....IS HOW a man IS SAVED...?
Saved without the man EVER having make his own election?

That is NONSENSE.
That is simply teaching A PREACHER saves men simply because he is Preaching.

THAT IS FALSE.

Men individually have to DECIDE to submit their OWN life to the Lord...or not.

I will not bother with the rest of your verses..
They all fall under the same false understanding, that SAVED and BORN AGAIN MEN can be PLUCKED OUT OF THE Lords Hand, which IS FALSE.

I addressed your first TWO scriptures.
You respond. You show definitively
THEY WERE SAVED.

On 2 Pet 2....you are preaching they had all knowledge......WOW......how awesome....
Jesus Spent 3 years teaching the disciples KNOWLEDGE, and WOW, they were NOT SAVED during that time....

But you have men who have a few sermons in complete knowledge, and have them submitted to the Lord........
but uh, Scripture doesn't.

WRONG.

Peter is speaking to Jewish CHRISTIANS.
ALL Christians are under the SAME rules and commands.

Read for yourself:
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of JESUS. This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, you have posted these Scriptures umpteen times. And umpteen times, you have been refuted.
No, Paul is NOT warning the "faithFUL".
Paul IS WARNING, the Gentiles of Gods Kindness TOWARD Gentiles, that they (GENTILES) are being Grafted IN to His PEOPLE....HOW....and WHY.
You pick a verse, then YOU decide they ARE saved and born again. Scripture didn't.
Read and Study Romans.
Discover WHO is being spoken TO in each verse, and WHAT is being APPLIED to THEM.
Every single verse DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE MAN.
Learning HOW and WHY a Gentile is being Grafted IN....IS NOT a CONCLUSION that SAVES a MAN.
Why is Paul SPEAKING TO GENTILES?
Rom 12:13
So he can SAVE the SAVED? No.
He is TEACHING THEM something they DID NOT KNOW.
The Hebrews, the Jews, are Gods CHOSEN "ISRAEL", ie HIS PEOPLE.
And EVEN SOME OF HIS PEOPLE, STOPPED believing............AND WERE CUT OFF!
The teaching IS ABOUT HEARING what Paul is teaching......AND for them to BELIEVE, and NOT WALK AWAY IN "DISBELIEF".... FOR IF they DO WALK AWAY.....
THEY SHALL BE CUT OFF, JUST AS "HIS CHOSEN" were CUT OFF, for falling AWAY, in DISBELIEF.
BELIEF IS A BEGINNING for a man.
IT IS NOT the man Receiving Salvation...
IT IS the man Receiving Knowledge!!
Lots of men receive KNOWLEDGE, and walk away. Paul is WARNING, one MUST CONTINUE receiving KNOWLEDGE, CONTINUE receiving the gift of FAITH from God, (which a man DOES, who CONTINUES LEARNING and BELIEVING).....AND ONCE the mans HEART becomes FULL of Gods Gift of Faith....the man IS PREPARED, to SUBMIT to the Lord......
AND RECEIVE Salvation and the Seed of God.......WHICH THEN, the man "HAS" received "EVERLASTING" LIFE "WITH" the Lord.
You have "STUDENTS", who are "babes" in KNOWLEDGE, saved and born again....
WHEN THEY ARE NOT.
You have a FEW issues, YOU refuse to address.
1)
You completely ignore, the STUDENT phase of a man, Knowing nothing about the Lord, to him LEARNING About the Lord, THEN ACTUALLY Submitting His Life TO the Lord.
You have a Student First hearing, and being warned to Continue hearing and learning......saved and born again....when he isn't.
2)
WHERE is YOUR Scriptural Verse of ONE MAN, in Romans 11.....saying HE HAS given his life to the Lord?
Your TAKE on Scripture, Fails to divide the WORD of Truth.
Your own structured religion, Had someone else DECIDING FOR YOU, declaring FOR YOU, that you were BORN AGAIN....and you have NO MEMORY of such event.
And NOW, you teach YOU MUST DO WORKS, in order to BE SAVED.
^ THAT is a PRECISE text book example of WHAT APPLIES to a JEW, WHO remains UNDER the LAW.
Paul was teaching GENTILES...Gentiles were being Grafted IN........NOT BY WORKS....
(Rom 11:6)
BUT rather BY....HIS GRACE!!!
Be A Student. Learn what APPLIES TO A GENTILE. Learn what APPLIES TO A JEW.
And what you SHOULD discover IS...
It all hinges on an INDIVIDUAL'S BELIEF, and CONTINUED BELIEF..."until such time the Individual SUBMITS HIS OWN LIFE "TO" the Lord".....
THEN shall the Lord CONVERT the INDIVIDUAL, and FOREVER KEEP that INDIVIDUAL in FAITH-FULLNESS to God ...FOREVER, and EVER...
BY the POWER OF GOD HIMSELF.
Your teaching that "STUDENTS" just hearing about the Lord God Almighty....BEING Saved and Born Again......IS FAULTY and IN ERROR.
Take a LESSON from Judas.
He followed. He believed. He fell from faith.
He betrayed Jesus. He stood Against Jesus.
Gee.....How could THAT BE?
According to YOU...because he believed and followed .... HE WAS SAVED AND BORN AGAIN.
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE....he was a follower, believing, and then walked away...
NOTHING whatsoever reveals "HE" submitted his life TO the Lord.
He was a STUDENT....and walked away...and thus LOST the Salvation that was prepared for him to receive.
AND THAT IS ANOTHER THING....
You teach, YOU HAVE TO Receive Salvation...
BEFORE you can LOSE Salvation.
That is completely FALSE.
The Truth IS....
Jesus provides the Gift of Salvation FOR EVERYONE....
It is theirs to CLAIM and RECEIVE.
IF they do not claim it and Receive it.....
THEY LOSE it.
And IF they claim it and Receive it......
THEY HAVE it ....... FOREVER.....less you think the Lord a LIAR.

The more long-winded your rants are - the more evidence that you're LOSING the argument and feel the need to filibuster . . .

They KEY phrase here in Paul's warning is "PROVIDED you remain". It is a condition of faith.
Read CLOSELY . . .
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, PROVIDED you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

 

[Taken]

Yup.
So - how can God "blot out" a name if that person didn't do something to lose their position??
A name can ONLY be blotted out if it was there to begin with.

That is correct. And you should have learned, every natural born man who has his life (his blood) quickened (brought into a living state) IS accomplished VIA GODS BREATH OF LIFE.

THAT natural mans NAME is recorded IN GODS BOOK OF LIFE.

IF THAT man DOES NOT become SAVED and BORN AGAIN....'his name shall be BLOTTED OUT".

Then there is THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE, which NAMES recorded IN HIS BOOK, "are" the names of those WHO, have SUBMITTED their LIFE "TO" the LAMB OF GOD; JESUS; THE Son of GOD; THEE Christ; THEE POWER of God.

Their names SHALL NEVER BE "BLOTTED:" OUT. Those people are Gods People and SHALL FOREVER be WITH GOD, enjoying EVERLASTING LIFE WITH their ...
Lord God Almighty.