Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Helen]

A true believer will produce "fruits of righteousness" - works do not make us righteous nor maintain salvation but are evidence of salvation.
< Snip > Does this mean I use my freedom to sin? No. Not at all. I love God, I desire to serve Him and be faithful to Him alone.

Yes, agree well said.

 

[Taken]

No - you agree with Luther and Calvin's Gospel - NOT that of Jesus.
Jesus and His apostles preached that we CAN lose our security. Please don't make me post that long list again . . .

That is precious.....YOU TELLING ME WHO I LEARN FROM!!!!

I never mentioned either Luther or Calvin...
YOU DID. So it appears Catholics are EXPERTS in Luthers and Calvins teachings.
HOW quaint!!! And totally irrelevant!!

According to Scripture - EVERYBODY'S faith is conditional

THAT ^ is not particularly a newsflash.

Hearing, Believing ... IS the BEGINNING of a man becoming ENLIGHTENED to the Gospel.

The more the man exerts the EFFORT to become ENLIGHTENED.....the more FAITH the Lord GIVES the man.

on the endurance of that faith -

Here you are CONFUSED.
I DO NOT......DO NOT....KEEP MYSELF IN FAITHFULNESS TO the Lord<-------> "BY"
My power, trying really hard, doing works, wishing and hoping......

MY Lord Dwells WITHING ME, and KEEPS ME FAITHFUL TO HIM....WITH HIS POWER.

NOT just the Jews.

HELLO.....JEWS for the most part (obviously excluding a few who have submitted to Jesus)........DO NOT HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT......HELLO-O-O...

THEY "exhibit" "THEIR FAITH"..."BY" their own power......to KEEP going to Temple, KEEP Hearing, KEEP asking for Forgiveness, KEEP their TRADITIONS according to their Law...KEEP DOING WORKS......ALL in HOPES that the Lord sees they LIVED a FAITHFUL.......HELLO.....NATURAL LIFE...
(Because REMEMBER, they are NOT submitted to the Lord...so they are NOT DEAD to SIN, crucified with Christ...saved, born again, indwelt with the Holy Spirit....or ....
HELLO.....a NEW MAN!)

YOU....do some bizarre twist of claiming you are born again, but not really saved. Claiming you are born again, but never yourself, submitted your life to the Lord, and LIKE the JEWS MUST continue to the end of your life to DO WORKS, so the Lord will SAVE you.

I Submitted my Life TO the Lord.
IF I DO ZERO WORKS....I will be called the LEAST, in the Kingdom of Heaven...

As I asked you before - PLEASE don't make me post that long list that NONE of you has been able to address . . .

MAKE you....sheesh....please don't.
They have all been addressed, several times!
And again, you are still without understanding.

 

[Taken]

The more long-winded your rants are - the more evidence that you're LOSING the argument and feel the need to filibuster . . .

LOL, you are too much!!

You complain you have not been responded to. Yet several times your verses have been addressed. You repeat your post, still without understanding. You complain some more. And when anyone bothers to give you the toddler version, that you might finally get it, you complain it's a rant.

It is best to simply allow you to remain ignorant and apparently pretend you are required to DO WORKS to RECEIVE SALVATION.

But a hint to you....Christ is building His Chruch now, daily, with men who have become savED and born again.

They KEY phrase here in Paul's warning is "PROVIDED you remain". It is a condition of faith.
Read CLOSELY . . .
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, PROVIDED you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

Of course one has to REMAIN....which is telling you........"THEY" have to KEEP their faith....."THEY" have to KEEP following, hearing, learning.....UNTIL WHEN?

Already told you UNTIL their HEART is full of faith and "THEY" are ready to GIVE THEIR LIFE "TO" the Lord....and RECEIVE their Salvation and Born Again Spirit and the INDWELLING SPIRIT of GOD and become A NEW MAN.....that the Lords Power thereafter KEEPS THEM IN FAITHFULLNESS "FOREVER"!

Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation.

The POINT IS the SAVED and BORN AGAIN.
THEY ARE NOT ...UNTIL THEY SUBMIT to the Lord.

Once again, YOU IGNORE a mans learning period.

You are foolish to think, a man hears Jesus is the Lord, and they instantly submit to Him!

THEY WERE STUDENTS! STUDENTS are receiving KNOWLEDGE. A STUDENT WHO IS RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE of the WORD of GOD IS RECEIVING the gift of faith from God.

THEY ARE NOT SAVED until they SUBMIT TO the Lord.

Good grief, Do YOU sign a contract without the KNOWLEDGE of the Contract?

Did you MISS the disciples LEARNED FOR 3 solid YEARS before they were SAVED?

You can NOT comprehend the process, BECAUSE YOU NEVER Participated in the process. And precisely WHY Protestants, DO NOT AGREE with Catholics,

How can they lose what they never had?

No need to keep repeating yourself...

You have asked this to ad nausum, and been Explained several times in an adult and toddler manner.

 

[Heb 13:8]

ad nausum

 

[Taken]

And NOWHERE in Scripture do we read that this gift cannot be thrown away.

Matt 22:29
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

1) God IS the Savior
Isa 43:11

2) God Chooses us.
John 15:16

3) "His" WILL is never thwarted by men.
Daniel 4:35

4) "I" give unto "them" "ETERNAL LIFE", and
"THEY" "SHALL" never perish,
"NEITHER SHALL"...."ANY" man, pluck "THEM" out of my hand.
John 10:28 / John 10:29

HOWEVER

, being flawed humans, we can turn our backs on it, as the Scriptures warn us . . .

Of course men ARE WARNED.

Men are TAUGHT the KNOWLEDGE of God.

Men are TAUGHT they are Separated from God.

Men are TAUGHT they CAN BECOME Reconciled WITH God.....
THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus.

Men are WARNED of the CONSEQUENCES of Rejecting God;
which by default means they have chosen to Reject HIS GIFTS;
which by default means they have chosen to Reject, being SAVED and BORN AGAIN;
which by default means they have chosen to BE CUT OFF, CAST AWAY, BURNED as RUBBLE.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is correct. And you should have learned, every natural born man who has his life (his blood) quickened (brought into a living state) IS accomplished VIA GODS BREATH OF LIFE.

THAT natural mans NAME is recorded IN GODS BOOK OF LIFE.

IF THAT man DOES NOT become SAVED and BORN AGAIN....'his name shall be BLOTTED OUT".

Then there is THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE, which NAMES recorded IN HIS BOOK, "are" the names of those WHO, have SUBMITTED their LIFE "TO" the LAMB OF GOD; JESUS; THE Son of GOD; THEE Christ; THEE POWER of God.

Their names SHALL NEVER BE "BLOTTED:" OUT. Those people are Gods People and SHALL FOREVER be WITH GOD, enjoying EVERLASTING LIFE WITH their ...
Lord God Almighty.

Nice try - but Rev. 3:5 is talking about the LAMB'S Book of Life.
It is Jesus - the LAMB who is talking and the one who is "Blotting out" names.

YOUR turn . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Nice try - but Rev. 3:5 is talking about the LAMB'S Book of Life.
It is Jesus - the LAMB who is talking and the one who is "Blotting out" names.

YOUR turn . . .

And those that overcome are those who believe BOL.

1 Jhn 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is precious.....YOU TELLING ME WHO I LEARN FROM!!!!

I never mentioned either Luther or Calvin...
YOU DID. So it appears Catholics are EXPERTS in Luthers and Calvins teachings.
HOW quaint!!! And totally irrelevant!!

And if YOU think that these ideas came out of YOUR head - you are tragically mistaken.
Your Protestant Fathers implanted these ideas in your head and the heads of Protestants for 500 years.

Here you are CONFUSED.
I DO NOT......DO NOT....KEEP MYSELF IN FAITHFULNESS TO the Lord<-------> "BY"
My power, trying really hard, doing works, wishing and hoping......

MY Lord Dwells WITHING ME, and KEEPS ME FAITHFUL TO HIM....WITH HIS POWER.

Jesus says that our FAITH saves us (Luke 7:50, 18:42).

FAITH = belief + Obedience (works)
SAVING faith requires endurance . . .

HELLO.....JEWS for the most part (obviously excluding a few who have submitted to Jesus)........DO NOT HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT......HELLO-O-O...

THEY "exhibit" "THEIR FAITH"..."BY" their own power......to KEEP going to Temple, KEEP Hearing, KEEP asking for Forgiveness, KEEP their TRADITIONS according to their Law...KEEP DOING WORKS......ALL in HOPES that the Lord sees they LIVED a FAITHFUL.......HELLO.....NATURAL LIFE...
(Because REMEMBER, they are NOT submitted to the Lord...so they are NOT DEAD to SIN, crucified with Christ...saved, born again, indwelt with the Holy Spirit....or ....
HELLO.....a NEW MAN!)

YOU....do some bizarre twist of claiming you are born again, but not really saved. Claiming you are born again, but never yourself, submitted your life to the Lord, and LIKE the JEWS MUST continue to the end of your life to DO WORKS, so the Lord will SAVE you.

I Submitted my Life TO the Lord.
IF I DO ZERO WORKS....I will be called the LEAST, in the Kingdom of Heaven...

Ummmm, tell that to the Apostles and ALL of the first Christians - who were ALL Jews.
Born again and indwelt with the Holy spirit . . .

MAKE you....sheesh....please don't.
They have all been addressed, several times!
And again, you are still without understanding.

SOME of them have been addressed, however incorrectly - but NONE of them have been proven to mean something else.
They are ALL warnings about LOSING salvation . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

And those that overcome are those who believe BOL.

1 Jhn 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Those that overcome are those who believe to the END.

Anybody can believe - because, even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19). The one who overcomes lives to do the Father's will (Matt. 7:21) and remains faithful to the end (Matt. 24:13).

God is not the sucker that YOU think He is . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matt 22:29
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

1) God IS the Savior
Isa 43:11

2) God Chooses us.
John 15:16

3) "His" WILL is never thwarted by men.
Daniel 4:35

4) "I" give unto "them" "ETERNAL LIFE", and
"THEY" "SHALL" never perish,
"NEITHER SHALL"...."ANY" man, pluck "THEM" out of my hand.
John 10:28 / John 10:29

Really??
God WILLS that ALL men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4).
Tell me - will ALL be saved??

That's what I thought . . .

Of course men ARE WARNED.
Men are TAUGHT the KNOWLEDGE of God.
Men are TAUGHT they are Separated from God.
Men are TAUGHT they CAN BECOME Reconciled WITH God.....
THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus.
Men are WARNED of the CONSEQUENCES of Rejecting God;
which by default means they have chosen to Reject HIS GIFTS;
which by default means they have chosen to Reject, being SAVED and BORN AGAIN;
which by default means they have chosen to BE CUT OFF, CAST AWAY, BURNED as RUBBLE.

WRONG again.
This entire rant is due to your rejection of the linguistic implications of the word "EPIGNOSIS" that is used in the verses I presented.

Epignosis is not just a simple intellectual assent or "knowledge" (oida).
It is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge that come from having a relationship.

God keeps trying to tell you where you're wrong - and you keep rejecting him . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Those that overcome are those who believe to the END.

No BOL, we overcome because of the one who has already overcome for us, Jhn 16:33.

Anybody can believe - because, even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19). The one who overcomes lives to do the Father's will (Matt. 7:21) and remains faithful to the end (Matt. 24:13).

Demons believe but don't accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.

God is not the sucker that YOU think He is . . .

a religious sucker born every minute u mean?

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL, you are too much!!
You complain you have not been responded to. Yet several times your verses have been addressed. You repeat your post, still without understanding. You complain some more. And when anyone bothers to give you the toddler version, that you might finally get it, you complain it's a rant.
It is best to simply allow you to remain ignorant and apparently pretend you are required to DO WORKS to RECEIVE SALVATION.
But a hint to you....Christ is building His Chruch now, daily, with men who have become savED and born again.
Of course one has to REMAIN....which is telling you........"THEY" have to KEEP their faith....."THEY" have to KEEP following, hearing, learning.....UNTIL WHEN?
Already told you UNTIL their HEART is full of faith and "THEY" are ready to GIVE THEIR LIFE "TO" the Lord....and RECEIVE their Salvation and Born Again Spirit and the INDWELLING SPIRIT of GOD and become A NEW MAN.....that the Lords Power thereafter KEEPS THEM IN FAITHFULLNESS "FOREVER"!
The POINT IS the SAVED and BORN AGAIN.
THEY ARE NOT ...UNTIL THEY SUBMIT to the Lord.
Once again, YOU IGNORE a mans learning period.
You are foolish to think, a man hears Jesus is the Lord, and they instantly submit to Him!
THEY WERE STUDENTS! STUDENTS are receiving KNOWLEDGE. A STUDENT WHO IS RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE of the WORD of GOD IS RECEIVING the gift of faith from God.
THEY ARE NOT SAVED until they SUBMIT TO the Lord.
Good grief, Do YOU sign a contract without the KNOWLEDGE of the Contract?
Did you MISS the disciples LEARNED FOR 3 solid YEARS before they were SAVED?
You can NOT comprehend the process, BECAUSE YOU NEVER Participated in the process. And precisely WHY Protestants, DO NOT AGREE with Catholics,
No need to keep repeating yourself...
You have asked this to ad nausum, and been Explained several times in an adult and toddler manner.

And, in every one of your angry rants, you keep missing the point that NOBODY is forced to remain faithful.
You keep trying to show that a true, born again person will
STAY faithful, no matter what - but the Word of God warns that this is NOT the case.

I'm NOT going to change your mind here because you have chosen to reject God's Word where it differs from YOUR understanding.
All I can do is to point you in the right direction and pray the Holy Spirit intervenes . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No BOL, we overcome because of the one who has already overcome for us, Jhn 16:33.

Absolutely.

And if ewe remain faithful to him - we will receive the rewards of His promises.
If we don't - we LOSE . . .

Demons believe but don't accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.

You didn't say ANYTHING about that before. YOU said that we overcome by "believing".
Now, you're changing your tune . . .

a religious sucker born every minute u mean?

No - I meant that YOU believe God to be a sucker to allows disobedient people into Heaven.
However - Scripture disagrees with you . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

This entire rant is due to your rejection of the linguistic implications of the word "EPIGNOSIS" that is used in the verses I presented.

Epignosis is not just a simple intellectual assent or "knowledge" (oida).
It is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge that come from having a relationship.

God keeps trying to tell you where you're wrong - and you keep rejecting him . . .

No, Rom 1 is referring to nonbelievers only. There's that word believe again..

Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

God bl

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, Rom 1 is referring to nonbelievers only. There's that word believe again..

Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

God bl

Unfortunately - that's NOT the verse we were discussing.

Hebrews 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-33 are BOTH speaking of born again Christians - and BOTH use that pesky word "Epignosis" . . .
Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Absolutely.

And if ewe remain faithful to him - we will receive the rewards of His promises.
If we don't - we LOSE . . .

No, we receive His promises because of what He did on the cross, not because of anything we do.

You didn't say ANYTHING about that before. YOU said that we overcome by "believing".
Now, you're changing your tune . . .

No, I've stayed consistent with you since the beginning. Yes, we overcome by believing Rom 10:9.

No - I meant that YOU believe God to be a sucker to allows disobedient people into Heaven.
However - Scripture disagrees with you . . .

Well, disobedient people will be in Heaven because they will all be sinners who believed. Jesus died for the sinner, not the Pharisee.

Unfortunately - that's NOT the verse we were discussing.

Hebrews 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-33 are BOTH speaking of born again Christians - and BOTH use that pesky word "Epignosis" . . .
Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

All in context BOL, Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-31 are both in figurative context describing the maturity of the believer.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,a and of faith in God,

Heb 10:26-31 maturity - Google Search

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Pet 2 is about false prophets who heard but did not believe.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Unfortunately - that's NOT the verse we were discussing.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

First of all - WHO said that works prepared in advance for us by GOD are "Dead" works (Eph. 2:10)??

Secondly - we're not talking about the Levitical Priesthood. That is part of the OLD Covenant that was fulfilled.

 

[Taken]

Nice try - but Rev. 3:5 is talking about the LAMB'S Book of Life.
It is Jesus - the LAMB who is talking and the one who is "Blotting out" names.

YOUR turn . . .

There is more than ONE BOOK.
Rev 20:12

All authority is UNDER Christ the Lord, TO open, TO read, TO judge out of the Testimony and Evidence within the BOOK(S).

 

[Heb 13:8]

First of all - WHO said that works prepared in advance for us by GOD are "Dead" works (Eph. 2:10)??

Nobody.

Secondly - we're not talking about the Levitical Priesthood. That is part of the OLD Covenant that was fulfilled.

Ok, now check out the promises of the New Covenant

1. as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one
2. since the new covenant is established on better promises.
3. that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance
4. now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
5. and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Heb 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

Heb 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Heb 12:24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

These passages are drenched in OSAS. OSAS is not based on our works, it's based on whether Jesus Christ has risen BOL. God bless.