Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Triumph1300]

Huh? It was the Devil who said he would be FOREVER with a man who heartfully believed in him?

Use your brains.

 

[Taken]

Use your brains.

For Spiritual Conversion or the understanding thereof.....? Sorry, but the carnal mind is on the back burner for that.

Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity AGAINST GOD....

 

[LC627]

John 6:39 - And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Salvation is the work of God - He does it and He maintains it.

We could not even save ourselves so what makes anyone think they can maintain a gift they don't even deserve? We all are in need of God's great grace, all of us. The fact that Jesus died proves that works do not satisfy God's wrath towards sin or could even come close to maintaining salvation / atonement.

John 6:28,29 - Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

 

[Taken]

John 6:39 - And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Salvation is the work of God - He does it and He maintains it.

Well said, to the POINT!

Correct!

We could not even save ourselves so what makes anyone think they can maintain a gift they don't even deserve? We all are in need of God's great grace, all of us. The fact that Jesus died proves that works do not satisfy God's wrath towards sin or could even come close to maintaining salvation / atonement.

Correct.

God provides His Gifts.
Man has the freewill to desire to receive His Gifts.
It is the Holy Spirit that fills a man heart with Faith, in preparation to receive His Gifts.

God is all knowing. He is not fooled or mocked.

He freely gives His gifts to those whom desire them.

And Yes, He maintains the gifts, FOREVER.

John 6:28,29 - Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Correct.

God gives His Gifts of Conversion "TO" the natural man, alive in his flesh, but dead in his sins.

Converting the man from the OLD MAN to a NEW MAN....FOREVER.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

@BreadOfLife ..I have not spoken to you in months. I just keep reading your words over and over again, and with the same out-of-context and misunderstood 10- or 11 scripture passages you present concerning salvation. I just cannot believe you accepted the gift of God to salvation if you keep saying you can do what you want or decide if you want to leave God or not, like falling away from God deliberately. I just cannot believe your words are from a reborn spirit possessing the seed and new man inside you.

Most folks, not just yourself, regardless of religious persuasion believe that we partner or cooperate with God when GOD GIVES us the free gift for spiritual rebirth. He never does this foolishly. He knows we will accept it or not already – foreknowledge and predestination as someone added. There is no true co-equal partnership with God, ever. At the point of TRUE salvation, we become slaves and servants of God and not of this world or self. We become equal partners and brothers in Christ and other (brother and sisters) true believers though. We are baptized into Christ as he was baptized. Christ is still a servant in heaven today. So how can we have the gall to say we can do want we want and in the same breath that we are saved. I say that person is not a child of God and never was saved in the first place.

The phrase once saved always saved should be modified for clearer understanding. It means once we truly have the seed of rebirth, as a new creature we are at that point always secure or shall be saved in the future. We continue to grow, read, pray, live out or spiritual lives with stumbles and pick-ups until our last breath. We are working out our salvation, NOT that we FALL FROM TRUE SALVATION as many misinterpret this scripture for their insecure reasons. Believers are bold at least on the inside and nominally never waver in faith.

Unfortunately, ‘Once save always saved’ is grossly misunderstood to mean anyone tasting, knowing, even participating in the goodness and favors of God and his spirit as an experiment and as a trial are saved - they are not!! THEY MUST KNOW THEY HAVE THE NEW SEED WITHIN THEM. There are many folks even on this forum that think they are saved and THEY ARE NOT based on what I read.

God did not choose them for salvation because he knew they would truly reject him, as those parroting OSAS is a myth. These deniers are ignorant about salvation. They should seriously question their spiritual condition first. They may be still ‘lost.’

Don’t take your words “Once I have come to faith and have accepted the gift from God,..” lightly BOL.

As I said already, no one ever cooperates with his grace even if he bestowed it upon you. If you are truly a child of God, you won’t say I COOPERATE……’ GOD CAN ONLY DO this glorious and miraculous work for you…GOD plants the secure seed of salvation within you.

You can do NOTHING about it once God FIRST moves you in love and humility and faith towards him. Your action is to accept the gospel and the truth that you are an undeserving person and truly already are condemned from birth from sin, as we transmit these heartfelt waves of emotion as humility, hopelessness and true faith to belief in his son, and then God continues to do his work within us. He is irresistible at that point and the new recreation is performed with perfect surgical hands and precision. He reforms our heart to the likeness of Christ in spirit, whether our ‘old’ will is ready to accept its presence completely at that time or not. It is there for good and no one is going yank it out even no themselves. It is an eternal union. Jesus said that no one in God with be lost.

YOU ARE NOW TRULY REBORN and SAVED.

DO YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY YOU ARE SAVED?! AND HOW DO YOU KNOW OR NOT KNOW THIS?!


Bless you,


APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife ..I have not spoken to you in months. I just keep reading your words over and over again, and with the same out-of-context and misunderstood 10- or 11 scripture passages you present concerning salvation. I just cannot believe you accepted the gift of God to salvation if you keep saying you can do what you want or decide if you want to leave God or not, like falling away from God deliberately. I just cannot believe your words are from a reborn spirit possessing the seed and new man inside you.

Most folks, not just yourself, regardless of religious persuasion believe that we partner or cooperate with God when GOD GIVES us the free gift for spiritual rebirth. He never does this foolishly. He knows we will accept it or not already – foreknowledge and predestination as someone added. There is no true co-equal partnership with God, ever. At the point of TRUE salvation, we become slaves and servants of God and not of this world or self. We become equal partners and brothers in Christ and other (brother and sisters) true believers though. We are baptized into Christ as he was baptized. Christ is still a servant in heaven today. So how can we have the gall to say we can do want we want and in the same breath that we are saved. I say that person is not a child of God and never was saved in the first place.

The phrase once saved always saved should be modified for clearer understanding. It means once we truly have the seed of rebirth, as a new creature we are at that point always secure or shall be saved in the future. We continue to grow, read, pray, live out or spiritual lives with stumbles and pick-ups until our last breath. We are working out our salvation, NOT that we FALL FROM TRUE SALVATION as many misinterpret this scripture for their insecure reasons. Believers are bold at least on the inside and nominally never waver in faith.

Unfortunately, ‘Once save always saved’ is grossly misunderstood to mean anyone tasting, knowing, even participating in the goodness and favors of God and his spirit as an experiment and as a trial are saved - they are not!! THEY MUST KNOW THEY HAVE THE NEW SEED WITHIN THEM. There are many folks even on this forum that think they are saved and THEY ARE NOT based on what I read.

God did not choose them for salvation because he knew they would truly reject him, as those parroting OSAS is a myth. These deniers are ignorant about salvation. They should seriously question their spiritual condition first. They may be still ‘lost.’

Don’t take your words “Once I have come to faith and have accepted the gift from God,..” lightly BOL.

As I said already, no one ever cooperates with his grace even if he bestowed it upon you. If you are truly a child of God, you won’t say I COOPERATE……’ GOD CAN ONLY DO this glorious and miraculous work for you…GOD plants the secure seed of salvation within you.

You can do NOTHING about it once God FIRST moves you in love and humility and faith towards him. Your action is to accept the gospel and the truth that you are an undeserving person and truly already are condemned from birth from sin, as we transmit these heartfelt waves of emotion as humility, hopelessness and true faith to belief in his son, and then God continues to do his work within us. He is irresistible at that point and the new recreation is performed with perfect surgical hands and precision. He reforms our heart to the likeness of Christ in spirit, whether our ‘old’ will is ready to accept its presence completely at that time or not. It is there for good and no one is going yank it out even no themselves. It is an eternal union. Jesus said that no one in God with be lost.
YOU ARE NOW TRULY REBORN and SAVED.
DO YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY YOU ARE SAVED?! AND HOW DO YOU KNOW OR NOT KNOW THIS?!
Bless you,
APAK

Let's see - where to begin . . .

For starters - the few people who HAVE actually attempted to address the verses I presented have ALL ignored the term "knowledge" (Epignosis). This word is not defined as a simple knowing (oida, gnosis) - but a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ.

Heb 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 both speak of those who have an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and have been once again overcome by the defilements of this world. they speak of their present condition becoming worse than their original one because they had an EPIGNOSIS or Christ and later rejected it.

Likewise, Matt. 5:13 is talking about BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS who are the "salt" of the earth. This is the Church that Jesus is talking about. He warns that this "salt" can LOSE its flavor and become worthless.
The verses go on and on like this.

God choosing somebody does NOT always mean that they are going to DO His will - or that they will cooperate with His grace. Jesus laments this fact when He enters Jerusalem:

Matthew 23:37, Luke 13:34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING.

Paul calls us "co-workers/cooperators" (sunergos) with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1).

WE choose Heaven or Hell - He doesn't choose it for us.
God WILLS the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 2:4) - but NOT all will be saved because of OUR free will . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Lord Bares gifts. For all.
They are not gifts ANY man is forced to take.

A man WHO TAKES the gifts HAS THEM.
A man WHO DOES NOT TAKE the gifts....too bad, so sad, you snooze you lose.

Luke 11:10
....you have to ASK to receive His Gifts of Conversion.

John 6:51
....a man WHO asks RECEIVES FOR EVER LIFE.

John 14:16
...Another Gift....the Holy Spirit....Receive this gift and the Holy Spirit Shall be with you...
FOREVER.

Your turn....SHOW the Lord is a LIAR, and He didn't really mean FOREVER.

SHOW the Lord is "subject" to a mans mind, who RECEIVES the Lords Gift of Conversion and then says....nah phooy, changed my mind and throws it back in the Lords face.

SHOW where the Lord EVEN CONSIDERED a mans MINDS THOUGHTS, before giving a man the gifts of conversion.

Thanks for yet another empty and impotent response.
I asked you to show me ONE verse of Scripture that says a man cannot lose his salvation once he has it.

You failed again . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Repeating your "LIST" that does not apply to a saved man, is irrelevant.
God's "kindness" toward a man does not mean a man is born again.
You can stop repeating that scripture.

In all of your denials - you STILL haven't addressed "EPIGNOSIS", which means a full and experiential knowledge of Christ.

ONLY a born again person has an epignosis of Christ. BOTH Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2"20-22 say that a person in this condition can LOSE it all . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Easy to show ONE named person having received a born again spirit and then becoming unborn of God.....??

Funny, what you call crystal clear and easy...
Mentions no man specific, or anyone being born again, or anyone becoming unborn of God....

Try again.

I just gave you a laundry list of verses that warn us that we CAN lose everything.
Your denials don't make them "magically" go away . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Huh? It was the Devil who said he would be FOREVER with a man who heartfully believed in him?

What Book is that in?

Taken

Yup - God is ALWAYS faithful.
The problem is that WE'RE not.

OSAS is a false doctrine based on Luther's scrupulosity and Calvin's arrogance . . .

 

[Taken]

Thanks for yet another empty and impotent response.
I asked you to show me ONE verse of Scripture that says a man cannot lose his salvation once he has it.

You failed again . . .

No. You have repeatedly been shown IN Scripture.... The Lords Conversion in a man...

IS "FOREVER". Apparently the meaning of FOREVER, is foreign to you.

I can not understand it FOR YOU.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. You have repeatedly been show IN Scripture.... The Lords Conversion in a man...

IS "FOREVER". Apparently the meaning of FOREVER, is foreign to you.

I can not understand it FOR YOU.

No - just because GOD is faithful forever doesn't mean that WE are automatically faithful forever.
HE'S perfect - you're not . . .

 

[Taken]

Yup - God is ALWAYS faithful.
The problem is that WE'RE not.

BINGO!

As you have been told and Scripturally shown umpteen times a CONVERTED MAN Is saved and born again and has FOREVER the INDWELLING Holy Spirit Who By His Power Keeps The Converted man in FAITHFULLNESS To Him FOREVER!!!

OSAS is a false doctrine based on Luther's scrupulosity and Calvin's arrogance . . .

Oh good grief! Talk about arrogance AND rebellious... Scripture itself teaches a man Converted IN Christ has Overcome and FOREVER the power of God is IN the man.
That man is Forever freed from the THE Sin of EVER again Rejecting God!

Sorry you have been duped and too rebellious to take the time to comprehend the Power of God IN a man. And sorry Catholics can not Claim "they were the First in KNOW" .
Bragging rights foiled, so you reject in jealousy and bad mouth truth tellers.

Only affects you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BINGO!
As you have been told and Scripturally shown umpteen times a CONVERTED MAN Is saved and born again and has FOREVER the INDWELLING Holy Spirit Who By His Power Keeps The Converted man in FAITHFULLNESS To Him FOREVER!!!
Oh good grief! Talk about arrogance AND rebellious... Scripture itself teaches a man Converted IN Christ has Overcome and FOREVER the power of God is IN the man.
That man is Forever freed from the THE Sin of EVER again Rejecting God!

Sorry you have been duped and too rebellious to take the time to comprehend the Power of God IN a man. And sorry Catholics can not Claim "they were the First in KNOW" .
Bragging rights foiled, so you reject in jealousy and bad mouth truth tellers.

Only affects you.

Actually - this is a blatant LIE.
Scripture teaches the exact opposite is true . . .

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE (epignosis) of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and OVERCOME by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who are BORN AGAIN and have had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS– who can be OVERCOME by the defilements of the world fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

 

[Taken]

No - just because GOD is faithful forever doesn't mean that WE are automatically faithful forever.
HE'S perfect - you're not . . .

You need to read and learn the Truth!

A Man Converted IN Christ IS Sanctified!

A Sactified man IS Made WHOLE.


Heb 10:14
FOR by one offering he hath PERFECTED them THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

You preach A False Doctrine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You need to read and learn the Truth!
A Man Converted IN Christ IS Sanctified!
A Sactified man IS Made WHOLE.

Heb 10:14
FOR by one offering he hath PERFECTED them THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

You preach A False Doctrine.

And MOST Protestants would disagree with you that our sanctification is complete.
Sanctification is a PROCESS - not a one-time event.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You need to read and learn the Truth!
A Man Converted IN Christ IS Sanctified!
A Sactified man IS Made WHOLE.

Heb 10:14
FOR by one offering he hath PERFECTED them THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

You preach A False Doctrine.

And MOST Protestants would disagree with you that our sanctification is complete.
Sanctification is a PROCESS - not a one-time event.

And IF sanctification is a one-time event - WHY does the author of Hebrews later tell his readers that they need to "STRIVE for that sanctity without which no one will see the Lord"??

CAN you answer that??

 

[Taken]

Let's see - where to begin . . .

For starters - the few people who HAVE actually attempted to address the verses I presented have ALL ignored the term "knowledge" (Epignosis). This word is not defined as a simple knowing (oida, gnosis) - but a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ.

Heb 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 both speak of those who have an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and have been once again overcome by the defilements of this world. they speak of their present condition becoming worse than their original one because they had an EPIGNOSIS or Christ and later rejected it.

Likewise, Matt. 5:13 is talking about BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS who are the "salt" of the earth. This is the Church that Jesus is talking about. He warns that this "salt" can LOSE its flavor and become worthless.
The verses go on and on like this.

God choosing somebody does NOT always mean that they are going to DO His will - or that they will cooperate with His grace. Jesus laments this fact when He enters Jerusalem:

Matthew 23:37, Luke 13:34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING.

Paul calls us "co-workers/cooperators" (sunergos) with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1).

WE choose Heaven or Hell - He doesn't choose it for us.
God WILLS the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 2:4) - but NOT all will be saved because of OUR free will . . .

Men can accept ---- Then Reject

Gods;
Knowledge
Truth
Teaching
Direction
Belief in Him
Etc.

Until such time they Become Converted BY and IN Christ and He IN the man.

You teach Babes just learning, as being Steeped in the knowledge of Jesus being the Christ.

Did you hear a couple of letters read to you and hear maybe a sermon or two and think you were in full knowledge of Christ and then make a sure decision to give your life To Christ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Men can accept ---- Then Reject

Gods;
Knowledge
Truth
Teaching
Direction
Belief in Him
Etc.

Until such time they Become Converted BY and IN Christ and He IN the man.

You teach Babes just learning, as being Steeped in the knowledge of Jesus being the Christ.

Did you hear a couple of letters read to you and hear maybe a sermon or two and think you were in full knowledge of Christ and then make a sure decision to give your life To Christ?

Hey - it's not MY problem that YOU disagree with Scripture.

The fact that you cannot come to terms with the linguistic implications of "Epignosis" is something you will have to take up with Christ - NOT with me. It ids the Word of GOD that says a born again person having "Epignosis" of Christ can fall away and be lost forever.

 

[Taken]

And MOST Protestants would disagree with you that our sanctification is complete.
Sanctification is a PROCESS - not a one-time event.

And IF sanctification is a one-time event - WHY does the author of Hebrews later tell his readers that they need to "STRIVE for that sanctity without which no one will see the Lord"??

CAN you answer that??

Well uh if you haven't received yes they were teaching one should strive to BECOME SANCTIFIED.