Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Um, he's saying be in fear of falling into unbelief, before it applies to you.
Once Saved Always Saved
- Thread starter Charlie24
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, only those who believe can do the will of the Father. Only those who are saved through faith can do the will of the Father and enter into the kingdom of the heaven. There's no reason to limit "will of My Father" to believing in Christ to avoid making what he's saying a works gospel.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You don't even get it that feasting on the meat of the word means to eat the food of the mature in a life of obedience and not sinning.
let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity (the knowledge of righteous living-meat), not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment (baby milk). Hebrews 6:1-2
The meat of the word is not superior doctrinal training (as you suppose your free grace doctrine to be). That's baby milk. A lot of Christians stay on an ever increasing diet of the theological baby milk of Christianity and consider themselves mature for doing so and don't realize the passage is saying the mature eat the solid food of the word and actually live out the righteous obedience of the faith. The end goal here is to live like Christ, not just be theologically informed.
Last edited:
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Still living in your sin is not being at rest in the finished work of the cross.
If you actually trust God and his word you would NOT be conceited. You would live humbly for him in increasing righteous behavior, not arrogantly in the sin of your old life. That's what faith does. Faith does not make it so you can 'rest' in your old life of sin. Faith makes it so you can rest in freedom from the slavery of sin. That's the Sabbath rest of God that the believing enter into.
Last edited:
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Don't you know that loving God/loving others keeps those long lists of 'do's and don'ts' in the NT? The commands to love don't replace them. They keep them. It's interesting how so many in the church think 'love God/ love others' replaces all the other commands in the Bible relieving them of that responsibility.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, because I fear the consequences of unbelief. That keeps me from being arrogant and conceited and cocksure over those who are in unbelief. So I'm not being arrogant and conceited in my faith. But you think you can never be in unbelief, and so the potential exists for you to be arrogant and conceited (I say 'potential' because I don't know if you actually are. I don't know you.). That's why what you believe does not also condemn me as arrogant and conceited.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, but that is still our deeds being the basis for receiving (entering into) eternal life at the end of the age. Our deeds indicating that we have the righteousness of faith, and so on that basis we are ushered into eternal life in the kingdom of God. The basis being 'we have the proof of our faith—our deeds', not 'we have earned, by our own righteousness, entrance into the kingdom of God'. I think you agree with that. I'm just pointing this out so you can see that saying works is the basis upon which we enter into the kingdom does not have to only mean self righteous works earn entrance into the kingdom.
Last edited:
We are not saved by grace through faith and good works and this and that. Nope.
We are saved by grace through faith, not by works. Not that good works are irrelevant, for the saved are God’s workmanship to do the good works that God had prepared for them to do in advance. Not by works so that no one will boast before God.
Those who say “did we not prophesy, cast out demons, and do wonders in your name (Jesus)”, do they not boast about having done all that? We can’t say to Jesus “did we not get ourselves baptized with water, did we not do good works, did we not endure, did we not do this and that in your name” and think that we are saved or deserved to be saved by that. That is boasting, like the former.
All we can say is thank you Lord Jesus for what you have done for us that we are now saved, and you are our Savior. Thank you for giving us your grace.
Tong
R3187
Last edited:
Oh Yipes! OSAS is an acronym for a man-made saying.
The Basis for the saying;
IS Gods Scriptural Truth.
Romans 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9 gives a mans "REQUIREMENT", to receive "His SALVATION"...
Romans 10:9 gives a mans "CONDITION" of HOW the man "FULFILLS" the "REQUIREMENT"!
The Condition of man is "IF".
The Requirement of man is "Heartful Confession of Belief".
Romans 10:9 gives Gods Word, to a man WHO fulfills the "Requirement AND Condition"!
"ONCE"
...is a man fulfilling the "IF" requirement & condition.
"SAVED"
...is God "fulfilling" His Word the man SHALL be SAVED.
"ALWAYS"
...is A man TRUSTING, Gods WORD "IS TRUE"
"SAVED"
...is A man TRUSTING, Gods WORD "IS TRUE".
~ Gods Word ~
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
1 John 2:
[17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
2 John 1:
[2] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
ALWAYS IS FOREVER
* What YOU believe has ZERO effect on me.
* What YOU preach is a SCAM, "DEFIES" Gods Word.
* I fulfilled...Gods Requirement AND Condition.
* I TRUST Gods WILL was for me to fulfill Gods Requirement AND Condition, in order to Receive HIS GIFT OF SALVATION.
* I TRUST Gods Word "IS TRUE".
* I HAVE the WISDOM to "KNOW and UNDERSTAND" SANCTIFIED "expressly means, SET APART UNTO GOD: (from ALL OTHERS, WITHOUT HIS SPIRIT "in & with" them.)
* I TRUST God "IS FAITHFUL" and "TRUE"...TO DO WHAT HE SAID.
It "effects" me not one iota,
"IF" you know Gods Word,
"IF" you trust Gods Word,
"IF" you do Gods Word,
"IF" you understand Gods Word,
"IF" you know what Sanctification means
"IF" you have "heartfully confessed "belief",
"IF" you preach receiving the Lord Gods GIFT of Salvation... IS NOT kept IN a man "ALWAYS and FOREVER".
*
WHAT you say,
WHAT you do,
WHAT you believe;
...IS ONLY ACCOUNTED unto YOU...
...IT IS "YOUR BURDEN"
..."not mine".
Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Our good deeds indicate or demonstrate that we have the righteousness which is by faith was my point. Faith is the root of salvation and good deeds are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of the righteousness of faith. We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18)
Last edited:
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (John 6:40)
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. The correct answer in Matthew 7:22 is not Lord, Lord, didn't 'WE,' but Lord, Lord, didn't 'YOU.' (John 3:16; 10:9; 14:6)
Oh good grief...
It is not saying "falling into unbelief".
* Every man IS NATURALLY BORN in UNBELIEF.
( Paul was the Apostle SENT to Preach to the Gentiles.
Study of History Reveals:
* Those who "gathered" to HEAR (men the Lord preached to, men the Apostles preached to....WERE MIXED CROWDS;
Jews Faithful to God, Jews Lost to DOING Gods Word, Gentiles who knew not God, Jews and Gentiles who knew not Christ Jesus...)
God established an EXPRESS, Tradition and Custom FOR the HEBREWS and ALL the TRIBES of ISRAEL...(FOR 4,000 YEARS)
For parents, elders, TO SPEAK the WORD of God IN THE EARS of "their Children!"
* HEARING Gods Word.... AND NOT BELIEVING Gods Word IS EXPRESSLY who WAS "CUT OFF"...Hebrews, Tribes, Jews, and so ALSO WILL BE
"CUT OFF"...Hebrews, Tribes, Jews, Gentiles.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
It depends on their attitude toward the sin. I knew someone who considered porn viewing as kind of a normative sin and it just kept on going on year after year. Is that "besetting"? Are they really sorry? If they're sorry, that's different, and if they strive against it and hate it then all right. "Besetting Sin" doesn't cancel 1 Corinthians 5 "do not even eat with someone who claims to be a believer yet lives in sin".
THAT'S YOU...your burden to BE IN FEAR.
I don't have that BURDEN.
I Have already given my life to the Lord.
The Lord has already Given me, What He Said He would, (BECAUSE I fulfilled His Requirement and Condition) TO RECEIVE His Gift of Salvation.
I am NOT ASHAMED to BE TRUSTING and CONFIDENT in the Lords Word, And LOUDLY SPEAK, of the Gift of Salvation the Lord God has Given me, and WILL GIVE to ANY man, WHO Confesses Belief.
SO? Learn the difference between "confidence to speak unashamedly"
AND
"Arrogance, bragging, demeaning, that one has something, the other doesn't"...
Which is what you are "IMPLYING' is occuring....PROVE IT.
Absolutely Correct! And I KNOW WHY...(according to Gods Word)...and So can any other man Be given Gods Gift of Salvation, Once and Forever...IF they choose to Hear, Learn, Trust that the POWER (Spirit) of God IN A MAN, IS GREATER than the mans POWER to "thrust" Gods Gift of Salvation OUT of that man.
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: BECAUSE greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.
* FEAR...of the Lord is a beginning of wisdom.
* NO FEAR....of the Lord is an ending of having received Gods Baptism of HIS Holy Spirit...With and "IN" a man.
* Gods Spirit 'IN' a man "IS THE KEY Knowledge AND Understanding...His Spirit "IN" a man "IS" Forever.
Learn the Scriptures...LEARN the TRUTH.
Gods Spirit Absolutely CAN BE "WITH" a man...... AND LEAVE A MAN.
Gods Spirit (only) "WITH" a man IS NOT a man Having "RECEIVED" Salvation.
Gods Spirit (SPECIFICALLY);
"WITH and IN" a man, IS EXPRESSLY a man who HAS RECEIVED Gods Gift of Salvation...ONCE and FOREVER
Arguing, a man can RECEIVE Gods Spirit "IN" the man, the man BE SAVED; then LOSE his Salvation....IS NEVER taught in Scripture.
Understanding, Gods Spirit can BE "WITH" a man...and then LEAVE a man....IS Scriptural Teaching.
Gods Spirit "IS" "WITH" every man WHO is "HEARING" the Word of God.
Such men are Scripturally CALLED....
"TASTING".
( they receive Blessings from God FOR HEARING His Word )
Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
* THEY have Tasted, the enlightenment of Gods Word....BY "HEARING".
* THEY experienced Having the "Holy Spirit"
WiTH THEM.
* IF they CHOOSE TO REJECT what they have HEARD...THEY STOP HEARING...and the Holy Spirit, Leaves...and is NO LONGER WITH THEM
* ^ that has nothing to do with a man WHO ... Has the Holy Spirit "WITH" them...AND "IN" them.
* Scripture IS FULL of Examples of men, WHO have the Holy Spirit "WITH" them...and "WARNINGS" to them.. IF THEY DO NOT COMPLETE the Requirement of "Heartful Confession".... ) THEY ARE "IN DANGER" of NEVER RECEIVING Salvation.
The Warning is repeated throughout Scripture....MEN ARE WEAK, they are EASILY "influenced" by Demonic Presence, and Philosophies of men, with Wicked anti-Christ teachings.
* Scripture EXPRESSLY "requires" the Holy Spirit of God....TO BE "WITH and IN" a man, for the man TO HAVE "RECEIVED" Gods Gift of Salvation.
* FURTHER Scripture EXPRESSLY "teaches" Once the Holy Spirit of God...."IS" "With and IN' a man...THE man IS SAVED...and the man IS KEPT SAVED FOREVER, BY the "indwelling POWER of God".
Men Against "OSAS", giving "Scriptural Examples" of men, having Gods Spirit "WITH" them, but NOT "IN" them...is a MOOT analogy...trying to Compare to a man WHO "DOES HAVE, Gods Spirit "with and IN" them.
I stand Firmly, without shame...
God Offered "ONCE" Through His Word Jesus, and Through His Power Christ, and Through His Wisdom Christ ...
That ANY man Who Hears Gods Word...
Gods Spirit IS WITH that man.
That ANY man Who "ONCE" Confesses Heartful Belief...IN God, IN His Word, In His Power...
Gods Spirit ENTERS INTO that man ... and is FOREVER (BY THE POWER of God)..."WITH and IN" that man.
What anyone else BELIEVES, is of no consequence to me.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
1. I believe I've already informed you on how that verse ("grace superabounded") was introduced, its proper context and use--how you're misusing it--and you're undeterred.
2. Nope. Galatians isn't about people caught up in sin. Pray before you read Scripture if you want to understand it : "Grant me understanding please. Thank You." He will give liberally.
3. Yeah, if they hate the sin, and mourn over it, and want restoration,and don't try to defend or justify themselves--if not, Paul gave someone to Satan for the destruction of their flesh.
Your mind does not grasp truth.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Guy, you haven't gotten a single thing correct and you're boasting about being a mature meat eater? Absolutely baffling. Are you on psychotropics?
A deflection of "Confidence" in Gods Word TO "Arrogance"...is what it is... "A deflection".
What is occuring is "disagreement".
* One has Confidence to Believe, the Lords Spirit "with AND in" a man IS Forever.
* One rejects to Believe, the Lords Spirit "with AND in" a man IS Forever.
Glory to God,
Taken
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
External works, yes. Internal works are a pre-requisite. Many verses have already been provided. If this were not true, universalism would be proper doctrine.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Trusting God is the whole point of Christianity, and I'd want nothing else for you along those lines. No one here takes issue with your trust in God, only with the arguments you use to arrive at that trust--you're having to disregard so much truth in Scripture. Like I've said, I think many would be better off as Monergists even Monergism is inconsistent with Scripture, because It's tenets (eg, once saved always saved/perseverance of the saints) has practical use. John Piper says after being married he was never attracted to another woman. If anyone wants a "miracle" that should be the kind--righteousness. The guy trusts God. That's great. I'm just seeking to trust God's Word, nothing less, and you and all others who believe in OSAS believe in God's Word, but only part of it, so that's "less".
The thief on the cross confessed Jesus. He was saved. He didn't know a thing about the OSAS hoax.
OSAS is an acronym for a man-made saying.
The Basis for the saying;
IS Gods Scriptural Truth.
Romans 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9 gives a mans "REQUIREMENT", to receive "His SALVATION"...
Romans 10:9 gives a mans "CONDITION" of HOW the man "FULFILLS" the "REQUIREMENT"!
The Condition of man is "IF".
The Requirement of man is "Heartful Confession of Belief".
Romans 10:9 gives Gods Word, to a man WHO fulfills the "Requirement AND Condition"!
"ONCE"
...is a man fulfilling the "IF" requirement & condition.
"SAVED"
...is God "fulfilling" His Word the man SHALL be SAVED.
"ALWAYS"
...is A man TRUSTING, Gods WORD "IS TRUE"
"SAVED"
...is A man TRUSTING, Gods WORD "IS TRUE".
~ Gods Word ~
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
1 John 2:
[17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
2 John 1:
[2] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
ALWAYS IS FOREVER
* What YOU believe has ZERO effect on me.
* What YOU preach is a SCAM, "DEFIES" Gods Word.
* I fulfilled...Gods Requirement AND Condition.
* I TRUST Gods WILL was for me to fulfill Gods Requirement AND Condition, in order to Receive HIS GIFT OF SALVATION.
* I TRUST Gods Word "IS TRUE".
* I HAVE the WISDOM to "KNOW and UNDERSTAND" SANCTIFIED "expressly means, SET APART UNTO GOD: (from ALL OTHERS, WITHOUT HIS SPIRIT "in & with" them.)
* I TRUST God "IS FAITHFUL" and "TRUE"...TO DO WHAT HE SAID.
It "effects" me not one iota,
"IF" you know Gods Word,
"IF" you trust Gods Word,
"IF" you do Gods Word,
"IF" you understand Gods Word,
"IF" you know what Sanctification means
"IF" you have "heartfully confessed "belief",
"IF" you preach receiving the Lord Gods GIFT of Salvation... IS NOT kept IN a man "ALWAYS and FOREVER".
*
WHAT you say,
WHAT you do,
WHAT you believe;
...IS ONLY ACCOUNTED unto YOU...
...IT IS "YOUR BURDEN"
..."not mine".
Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.
- Status
Similar threads
