Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Plain as day, friend. It's right there.

For you perhaps.

Tong
R3300

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And you only referred to Judas and Caiaphas as to whom He is referring to....

I don't think Caiaphas ever pretended to be a believer. And that's not the point I was trying to make anyway. I'm proving to you, using his example right from Jesus' day, that an unbeliever can have a legitimate gift of the Spirit. I don't believe that's true now after the resurrection.

...tell us who you say was Jesus talking to there, besides the two.

Tong
R3297

He probably was not talking to Caiaphas. That was not the point, lol.

He was probably talking about the Pharisees and the Scribes who listened to Jesus' teachings in the streets. For one, the context of the passage is false prophets/teachers, and two, at this time only appointed officials had gifts of the Spirit. But there's always the possibility that Jesus is referring to just anybody, which would mean the powers they had were fake, or demonic. But there's also the story of Sceva, the Jewish priest, who didn't have the miraculous powers of the Spirit (Acts 19:13-16). The point is, you can't just make hasty conclusions about the passage before considering the many questions the passage itself brings up. But the main take away that is clear is that those who do not live Christ's commands will not be saved when he comes back. Osas causes people to miss the important point of the passage and focus on the non-issue of whether or not they were ever real believers to begin with. You don't hear Osasers talking about that too much. That's a works gospel to them. Not all of them, of course, but the vast majority of them.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What do you mean to point out by that about justification? Are you saying that justification is by doing what the law says?

Be careful. Justification has two distinct Biblical meanings. It can mean to be made righteous, and it can mean to be shown to be righteous. Paul is not wrong when he said, "For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous." (Romans 3:13). It's just hard to discern which meaning of 'justified' (declared righteous) he is referring to, because both would be true in this case. It's just that we know it's impossible to be made righteous by doing the law. But it is true, nonetheless. You would have to keep the law in order to be made righteous by the law. Not just hear the law to be made righteous by the law.

Be careful? I was just asking a clarification from Corlove13. And so I wait for her to clarify.

Perhaps you can address that to her?

Tong
R3301

 

[Corlove13]

Those who put their Faith in the Blood Plus NOTHING “ ARE” the closest to Jesus.....you don’t get it ...o am not surprised....Dallas Willard , whoever that idiot is, can kiss me where the sun doesn’t shine and I ain't talking about London... God help any man that would Trample the Blood Of Jesus in this manner....Ferris should be ashamed for liking that post...

If not for Christ’s Shed Blood That is splattered on a Heavenly Mercy Seat.....this entire Universe would be Eternally Damned....Damned with absolutely NO hope....and some are ignorant enough to bad- mouth it....May God have Mercy on that ignorant Fool, Mr. Willard....

Lol
What type of relationship is a one night stand? Not many women want to be used for sex...lol not even the married ones...
That's why they like you to communicate with them, spend time with them doing things that are pleasing...

Therefore this is Why we need to be Born from above....because you are not just trusting something you can get to secure heaven when you die.....that leaves your life unchanged.

But should have Trusted or be putting trust in someone you came to believe Is truly "it" The son of God, the creator, King.....

This is why you cannot see the natural flow of your own biblical words.

 

[Corlove13]

Because it can only be understood as a works gospel. Most in the church can only hear the call to obedience as a works gospel. So the church doesn't preach it.


It means to strive for obedience in your faith....

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.10Therefore, brothers, strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​

Again, this can only be understood by most in the church as a works gospel, so it is not taught.

"Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" Romans 14:17​

The very thing the church longs for, but does not know how to lay hold of. Instead deferring to things like Osas teachings to get that which only obedience to God's commands, summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself' will get them.

Amen

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As for me, such is plain and clear, He never knew them, that is, He had never a personal relationship with them.

That's what I'm saying! 'Never knew you' doesn't have to mean he never had any kind of relationship with them. I think it could mean that he did not have an intimate, personal relationship with them, which ultimately deteriorated into him having no relationship with them and thus no life of obedience. And so they will be condemned at his coming.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Don't you even know that Jesus knows everything??? >>>
Of course I know that Jesus know everything. What does that have to do with Him saying “I never knew you”?

<<<You're TWISTING to fit YOUR unBiblical doctrine.>>>
So, what’s the ad hominem for? You happy doing that?

<<<BTW, thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved.>>>
Don’t thank me. I never said anything like that to you.

OSAS judge! lol

OSAS is total nonsense!

John 15:6 (NKJV)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Had I judged you in any way? Please quote. If not, why the rudeness and ad hominem? I can see you have fun doing that, that you even lol. I don’t find such as funny, nor pleasant and christian like. Please stop being like that. Could you do that?

If you think you can stop abiding in Him and be saved no longer, so be it with you, but not just for me.

Tong
R3302

 

[Corlove13]

Be careful? I was just asking a clarification from Corlove13. And so I wait for her to clarify.

Perhaps you can address that to her?

Tong
R3301

His answer is on point

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are so right....As I was writing some answers myself I had to asked myself where did I fall at...
and it was the Give me, Give me Give me state and not Lord How can I please you....

You know, I don't even believe we can love the Lord as we should without His help. The best we can do is feel drawn to Him, and then cast ourselves upon His mercy. When we thus humble ourselves, He picks us up, and enables us to serve Him with a whole heart.

But we must never think we can be spiritual or righteous without Him. It's an exercise in futility. :)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

By the way, can you tell us what you mean by Jesus knowing people but not intimately?

They're babies in their salvation. Using another analogy, they are saved but they have yet to bear the fruit of a 'knowing' relationship. Like when a woman eventually comes into a 'knowing' relationship with her husband and bears the fruit of that relationship—fruit she would otherwise not have borne before being in that level of intimacy in the relationship. As an example, the Galatians were known by God in salvation, but they did not know him (Galatians 4:9), so we know that 'knowing' can mean more than just you and God knowing each other in salvation itself.

 

[Corlove13]

Be careful. Justification has two distinct Biblical meanings. It can mean to be made righteous, and it can mean to be shown to be righteous. Paul is not wrong when he said, "For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous." (Romans 3:13). It's just hard to discern which meaning of 'justified' (declared righteous) he is referring to, because both would be true in this case. It's just that we know it's impossible to be made righteous by doing the law. But it is true, nonetheless. You would have to keep the law in order to be made righteous by the law. Not just hear the law to be made righteous by the law.

You know, I don't even believe we can love the Lord as we should without His help. The best we can do is feel drawn to Him, and then cast ourselves upon His mercy. When we thus humble ourselves, He picks us up, and enables us to serve Him with a whole heart.

But we must never think we can be spiritual or righteous without Him. It's an exercise in futility. :)

Yes, I see why prayer is so important in other ways.....It communicates we want what He wants and need Him .....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So there it is. You are actually injecting a qualification in the “know” there which is not there in the passage. That’s the problem, apparently.

Remember, I said we have to discern the passage in the context of all scripture. You will see that most, if not all, false doctrine is false because it did not take the whole counsel of scripture into consideration and instead un-rightly divided out a verse or two from scripture to establish that false doctrine.

 

[Corlove13]

His answer is on point

Because I think I already explained to Tong that we do not keep the Law by trying to keep it....but uphold it through the faith. Therefore if one loves they are not trying to kill, steal, murder...etc. Another words if you are walking North you are not walking South....

 

[kcnalp]

Had I judged you in any way? Please quote. If not, why the rudeness and ad hominem? I can see you have fun doing that, that you even lol. I don’t find such as funny, nor pleasant and christian like. Please stop being like that. Could you do that?

"<<<BTW, thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved.>>>
Don’t thank me. I never said anything like that to you."

You denied your own OSAS doctrine!

If you think you can stop abiding in Him and be saved no longer, so be it with you, but not just for me.

Tong
R3302

Can't help it. The warnings are abundant in Scripture!

Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But if you think that He knew them before or at one time, even while Jesus said He never knew them, so be it with you then.

And so you'll just ignore the Biblical reasons I gave for why we can't automatically exclude the possibility that 'never knew you' can mean 'never knew you intimately'? "So be it with you then."

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those who put their Faith in the Blood Plus NOTHING “ ARE” the closest to Jesus....

I appreciate what you're saying here, BB, but the truth is those who live in obedience to God's commands are the one's who are the closest to Jesus.

 

[Corlove13]

The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Has anyone ever witnessed a changing of a mind in this matter as a result of these quibblefests?

Barney, Precious friend, we are not here to "change anyone's mind," having respect
for THEIR right to express opinions.

Our work for God is to "simply PLANT and WATER Seeds Of The WORD,"
And, IF It Is HIS WILL: "...God Gives The Increase!..."

(1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!). Amen?​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God help any man that would Trample the Blood Of Jesus in this manner..

I appreciate your stance against the works gospel. And certainly every unbeliever that thumbs his nose to the grace of God and never receives it is treating the grace of God offered him with contempt, but truthfully, the trampling of Jesus that Hebrews 10:26-31 is addressing is not about that contempt for God's grace. It's about receiving the grace of God in Christ and then insulting the Spirit of grace by then rejecting it and purposely living in unbelief in the sin that grace delivered you from.

I assure you Hebrews 10:26-31 is likened to a judge who lets a young guilty criminal offender off the hook and lets him go back to society without punishment because the judge thinks he'll straighten up and turn away from his life of crime only to then have that person purposely despise the grace and mercy he was given by going back to his life of crime. The judge isn't going to let him off next time he's in their court room. All that person has to look forward to is the unmitigated wrath of the judge who had mercy on him. This time he won't be treated any different than any other guilty criminal who comes before the judge. Wouldn't want to be him! It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of an angry judge! But that's what the saved person who purposely goes back to unbelief and his old life of sin has to look forward to.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If not for Christ’s Shed Blood That is splattered on a Heavenly Mercy Seat.....this entire Universe would be Eternally Damned....Damned with absolutely NO hope....and some are ignorant enough to bad- mouth it....May God have Mercy on that ignorant Fool, Mr. Willard....

I don't think she was implying Mr. Willard was saying the blood is nothing. Sounds like he's saying some Christians are only interested in getting the blood and have no appreciation for who gave the blood, nor any desire to show any appreciation for who gave the blood by walking in, or guarding the life that blood gave them.