Once Saved Always Saved

[kcnalp]

Only those with an agenda to "prove" their unBiblical doctrine would say that none of these were ever saved!

Matthew 7:22 (NKJV)
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

 

[mailmandan]

Only those with an agenda to "prove" their unBiblical doctrine would say that none of these were ever saved!

Matthew 7:22 (NKJV)
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

Matthew 7:23 - And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[kcnalp]

Matthew 7:23 - And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Doesn't mean none of them were ever saved. They truly believed in Jesus!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And the only thing that counts is you are in Christ and Christ is in you.

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6

What counts is a new creation. Galatians 6:15​

You and @Behold are creating a false dichotomy between 'faith' and 'having Christ in you' where one does not exist.....

so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Ephesians 3:17​

 

[mailmandan]

Doesn't mean none of them were ever saved. The truly believed in Jesus!

So never doesn't mean never? Jesus did not say I once knew you, but don't anymore. He clearly stated I never knew you. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. (John 17:3) If they truly believed in Jesus unto salvation, then they would have said, 'Lord, Lord' didn't YOU (Romans 3:24-28) instead of didn't 'WE.' They were obviously trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus described these pseudo Christians as "you who practice lawlessness" which is not descriptive of genuine believers. (1 John 3:7-10)

 

[kcnalp]

So never doesn't mean never? Jesus did not say I once knew you, but don't anymore. He clearly stated I never knew you. If they truly believed in Jesus unto salvation, then they would have said, 'Lord, Lord' didn't YOU (Romans 3:24-28) instead of didn't WE. They were obviously trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus described these pseudo Christians as "you who practice lawlessness" which is not descriptive of genuine believers. (1 John 3:7-10)

So the MANY who did all those MANY things in the Name of Jesus were NEVER saved? Not even one of them? They ABSOLUTELY believed in Jesus! You can't be serious!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And its clear non-OSAS have no bases other than to look to themselves

That's what all Osasers think. They think the only other option to not believing Osas is to believe salvation is earned by works. And furthermore, they literally can not see that is not true when you show them how it's not true. That's why I call Osas a cult.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

but it clearly comes down to trusting Jesus = Safe as a rock

That is what counts, so why does Osas continue to beat it's drum about what doesn't count?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As apposed to trusting themselves with no assurance

It's amazing how you can't see that continuing to believe in order to be saved is not you trusting yourself for salvation. Paul made it crystal clear that trusting God is opposed to working for salvation (Romans 4:5), and that there is no boast in having faith (Romans 3:27). How are you missing that?

 

[mailmandan]

So the MANY who did all those MANY things in the Name of Jesus were NEVER saved? You can't be serious!

I'm absolutely serious. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Period. Don't confuse "nominal" Christians/false prophets etc.. with genuine Christians who have a relationship with Jesus Christ. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts, regardless of their claims of accomplishing many alleged wonderful works.

 

[mailmandan]

That's what all Osasers think. They think the only other option to not believing Osas is to believe salvation is earned by works. And furthermore, they literally can not see that is not true when you show them how it's not true. That's why I call Osas a cult.

Keep in mind that ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me. Now this does not mean that everyone who opposes OSAS attends a false religion or cult, but the red flag is still raised. How is OSAS a cult? I find that too many NOSASers in this thread tend to paint all OSASers with a broad brush.

 

[kcnalp]

Keep in mind that ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me. Now this does not mean that everyone who opposes OSAS attends a false religion or cult, but the red flag is still raised. How is OSAS a cult? I find that too many NOSASers in this thread tend to paint all OSASers with a broad brush.

Why are OSASers obsessed with this phony "works" excuse? You don't even know why you preach OSAS, except for judging others!

 

[mailmandan]

Why are OSASers obsessed with this phony "works" excuse? You don't even know why you preach OSAS, except for judging others!

Who am I judging? I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and know first hand that works salvation is not a phony excuse. All I keep hearing in this thread is NOSASers judging and criticising OSASers. I don't paint ALL NOSASers with a broad brush.

 

[kcnalp]

Who am I judging?

NON OSASers.

I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and know first hand that works salvation is not a phony excuse. All I keep hearing in this thread is NOSASers judging and criticising OSASers.

Wow! Talk about playing the victim! OSASers are the most judgmental people I have seen here!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And the only thing that counts is you are in Christ and Christ is in you.

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6

What counts is a new creation. Galatians 6:15​

You and @Behold are creating a false dichotomy between 'faith' and 'having Christ in you' where one does not exist.....

so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Ephesians 3:17​

Faith it is for you then. As for me, it is Jesus Christ.

Tong
R3285

 

[mailmandan]

NON OSASers.

Wow! Talk about playing the victim! OSASers are the most judgmental people I have seen here!

Who is playing the victim? I've met some very judgmental NOSASers myself, but I have also met some NOSASers who are not so judgmental. You need to put down your broad brush and take a deep breath.

 

[kcnalp]

Who is playing the victim? I've met some very judgmental NOSASers myself. You need to put down your broad brush and take a deep breath.

OSASers are playing the victim while constantly judging NON OSASers as unsaved! Don't you read OSASer posts?

 

[Tong2020]

So the MANY who did all those MANY things in the Name of Jesus were NEVER saved? Not even one of them? They ABSOLUTELY believed in Jesus! You can't be serious!

Why do you not believe what Jesus said? He said to them who says “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?”, “I never knew you”.

Tong
R3286

 

[mailmandan]

OSASers are playing the victim while constantly judging NON OSASers as unsaved! Don't you read OSASer posts?

I never said that all NOSASers were unsaved. Regardless of whether someone believes OSAS or NOSAS, we are still saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So never doesn't mean never? Jesus did not say I once knew you, but don't anymore. He clearly stated I never knew you. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. (John 17:3) If they truly believed in Jesus unto salvation, then they would have said, 'Lord, Lord' didn't YOU (Romans 3:24-28) instead of didn't 'WE.' They were obviously trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus described these pseudo Christians as "you who practice lawlessness" which is not descriptive of genuine believers. (1 John 3:7-10)

Let me point out a couple of things here, because the contention is not in the word 'never'.

In the Bible, 'knowing' is used in the context of intimacy in a relationship, and, the lack of that relationship altogether. And notice, in this passage, it is not about them knowing him, but him not knowing them. Does he mean he never knew these people intimately, or he did not know them at all? Biblically, it could mean either.

Their lawlessness is not the exercise of their spiritual gifts, it's their lack of obedience to the sayings of Christ.

We don't know if these spiritual gifts were fake or for real. The parallel passage (Luke 13:24-30) suggests he is talking about the common everyday people who walked the streets with him who do not have spiritual gifts, not the leaders of the Jews who would indeed have legitimate spiritual gifts despite them having neither an intimate relationship, or a relationship at all with Christ. But, on the other hand, the context of the Matthew 7 passage is false prophets. So that suggests he is talking about the leadership of Israel who could have legit spiritual gifts.

He does seem to be addressing a particular group of people for whom 'never' applies, not broad stroking all people who live lawlessly in the exercise of their spiritual gifts. We are the one's who are saying Jesus is writing hard and fast truth about ALL people, everywhere, in all times who fit this description. Jesus doesn't say that in the passage. We interpret it that way.

So you see, this passage isn't as cut and dry as people make it out to be. Never means never in the passage. It's all these other things that I listed that are in contention.