Once Saved, Always Saved?

[BloodBought 1953]

Where I am disagreeing with Lifelong sinner is, his belief that you cannot control yourself from committing sin.

Sometimes you can....Sometimes you can’t....Those Saved Believers with a New Nature That can NOT sin find themselves warring against the Old Adamic Nature—- It is not subject to the-Law Of God because it cannot be.....

It’s like this—- you have a White Dog and Black Dog within you—- the one that you “Feed “ the most will dominate the other one....wanna be blessed in your life ? Try to feed the White Dog and reap the rewards......feed the Black Dog and wind up Chastised and miserable .....you are STILL saved.... if you were Lost ,this battle would not even exist...there would be no White Dog within you..l.

 

[Taken]

Newsflash......you ever have an unclean thought ? I suspect that you have “ secret thoughts that would shame Hell itself” —- just like the rest of us....you need Grace just as much as anybody else.....perhaps “ more” for denying an obvious Truth...

What are you talking about “an impure thought, secret, shaming hell?”

What does that have to do with a mans Sin of Disbelief Against God, having been Forgiven and impossible for that man to ever AGAIN Sin Against God?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What are you talking about “an impure thought, secret, shaming hell?”

What does that have to do with a mans Sin of Disbelief Against God, having been Forgiven and impossible for that man to ever AGAIN Sin Against God?

theres more than 1 sin. How can you know how often you sin when you dont even know what sin is??

 

[Taken]

".

How about “ trying not to sin” because I am a New Creation..

BB -That is contradictory.

A man is naturally born in sin, commits sin.
...What IS a naturally born mans COMMISSION of Sin?

ANSWER:
OT and NT —->
1) His natural spirit in his natural heart, IN his natural body....
that DOES NOT Believe in God!
2) His souls life (Gods Breath), IN his natural body...
that has BECOME CORRUPTED, being IN his natural body...
that DOES NOT Believe in God
NT and forward —->
3) DOES NOT Believe in God or Jesus IS the Christ Messiah WHOM Gods Sent.

* “IF” a man’s natural spirit in his natural heart......HAS....come into Belief IN GOD...BEFORE the man physically DIES...God SHALL FORGIVE and SAVE that man, WHEN his body Physically Dies....AND...Raise that mans BODY sinless/glorified....IN the First Resurrection.

* “IF” a man’s natural spirit in his natural heart......HAS....come into Belief IN GOD....”and” IN Jesus IS the Christ Messiah, BEFORE the man physically DIES...”AND”....the man HAS heartfully, (via his natural spirit) confessed His Belief TO the Lord....and Spiritually given his BODY to Death, Crucified WITH, The Lord,
The Lord God, SHALL FORGIVE and SAVE and QUICKEN, ie. CONVERT that man ..AND...The “ Lord” Shall Raise that mans BODY sinless/glorified ... BEFORE
* The Wrath from Heaven rains DOWN from Heaven
* That Wrath IS the Last great Tribulation to come DOWN from Heaven.
* That IS BEFORE Gods First Resurrection.
* That IS BEFORE Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign.

ALL Men have FREEWILL.
Men live in DIFFERENT historical and present Eras.
NO man IN ANY ERA...
1) “IS” permanently FORGIVEN his sin AGAINST God; Of having HAD Disbelief;
2) “HAS” his soul permanently RESTORED and permanently FORGIVEN his sin AGAINST God: Of having HAD corrupted his soul;
3) “HAS” his natural spirit ie the truth in his heart, circumcised, cut off, and Permanently given a new heart, given the SEED of God, QUICKENING, (ie rebirthing his own spirit), WITH Gods Holy Spirit of Truth.
..............UNTIL the MANS BODY .......IS DEAD......!!!

*PHYSICAL BODILY DEATH...WAS REQUIRED for 4,000 Years...BEFORE a man COULD RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

*PHYSICAL BODILY DEATH...FOR the LAST 6,000 Years...CONTINUES, today, and through the SEALS, through the TRUMPS, during the Last Great Tribulation....BEFORE a man CAN RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

For the LAST 2,000 YEARS...
* AN EXCEPTION...VIA a NEW Testament....
Was offered BY God, THROUGH Jesus, OF Christ...
FOR any man:
WHO...heartfully repents his own sorrow for having DISBELIEVED.
WHO..heartfully repents his own sorrow for having CORRUPTED his soul
WHO....heartfully believes IN his natural spirit in his natural heart.
WHO....heartfully CONFESSES his belief...OF his natural spirit.
WHO....Willfully Lays down his bodily life, crucified with Christ Jesus.

THAT MAN......HAS expressly fulfilled Gods REQUIREMENT, TO:
BE permanently Forgiven
BE permanently soul RESTORED, ie saved.
BE permanently spirit QUICKENED, ie spirit born of Gods Seed.
BE permanently body, washed (Jesus’ blood), sanctified (ie set apart),
....justified, (forever with the Lord God)
BE temporarily INDWELT with Gods Spirit, ie Light, covering his sins.
BE temporarily INDWELT, with Gods Spirit, ie Power, to Keep that man.
BE temporarily USING the Lords Risen body, to dwell IN, until his own body is RISEN up in sinless glory.

THAT ^ IS A CONVERTED man.....THAT IS A NEW CREATION...
body, soul, spirit....ALREADY having QUALIFIED, BY FULFILLING EVERY REQUIREMENT, FOR THAT MAN TO...
RECEIVE HIS FORGIVENESS, HIS SALVATION, HIS QUICKENING...
BEFORE HIS PHYSICAL DEATH.

NOW, BB....
WHAT DOES THAT ^ HAVE to do with a man’s minds, “impure” thoughts?

How is a mans minds “impure” thoughts...A SIN AGAINST God?

Do you believe, YOUR thoughts, YOUR actions AGAINST other men, ARE SINS AGAINST MEN?

Did God INSTRUCT “you”, to BELIEVE IN EARTHLY MEN?
Did God INSTRUCT “you”, DISBELIEF IN EARTHLY MEN was a SIN AGAINST MEN? AGAINST God?
Did God INSTRUCT “you”, to FORGIVE MEN of “SIN”?

Do you realize, Conversion IS an OFFERING of God, for “A” man to have an ASSURED (before a mans physical death) forever relationship WITH the Lord God Almighty?

What does a mans assured forever relationship WITH God have to do with THAT mans relationship with ANY other person?

A man having RECEIVED an assured permanent relationship WITH God..HAD nothing whatsoever TO DO WITH consideration, or of God “changing, renewing, rebirthing, a mans MIND”.

WHEN the Lord God...FORGAVE a mans natural spirit OF his SIN of disbelief Against God, and of the man Having Corrupting his soul...
The Lord God...ALSO forgave that man OF ALL his Trespasses, AGAINST other men.

Gods FORGIVENESS of that mans SIN against God IS PERMANENT, WHEN the body is DEAD....it is not POSSIBLE for a DEAD BODY to commit SIN against GOD....(ie remember, crucified?)

But, that flesh is still physically living. (Blood IS the life of the body).
If your blood is still flowing, the physical body is carnally living.

CAN YOU STILL repeatedly, Carnally, naturally, TRESPASS AGAINST MEN?
OF course. IS that a SIN AGAINST men? No. IS that a SIN AGAINST God? No. IS that a TRESPASS AGAINST men? Yes.


Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

A converted man IS a man with an assured forever relationship with God.

A converted man (alive in his flesh body) LIKE ANY OTHER MAN, (NOT converted, forgiven, saved, quickened)......WILL have relationships WITH other people.
* cheating, lying, theft, intent, unintended, accidental, etc. OCCURS between and among ALL people.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT TO USE the POWER of God in his “new spirit”, to NOT ACT on the deceptive thoughts of HIS CARNAL MIND, but instead, ACT on the thoughts of his new quickened spirit.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT “IF” he “HAS” Trespassed Against an other man........FIX IT! Ask the man for forgiveness of his Trespass....MAKE RIGHT the damages, harm he has cause the man he Trespassed AGAINST...restore, fix, replace ... possessions, reputation, the Trespasser HAS Harmed.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT, to as well, Forgive others who “trespass against him”... and so also will God forgive a mans Trespasses...
(Regardless IF an other man “forgives” a trespass against him).

You are mixing...a mans Exclusive Relationship with God concerning...
SIN Against God....and SIN Forgiven By God...

AS equal to ....a mans Relationship with OTHER MEN concerning...
TRESPASSING of men against men....and men forgiving men of TRESPASSES against men.

SIN...is only Against God.
ONLY God forgives SIN.

TRESPASSES....is man Against man.
MEN...and God...can and do Forgive Trespasses of men against men.

IF you recall...WHY the Jewish Pharisees WANTED Jesus Crucified?
WHAT DID, mosaic Law TEACH for 4,000 YEARS?
SIN...was AGAINST God.
ONLY GOD...could forgive SIN AGAINST Him.

The Pharisee’s KNEW, and SAID, exactly what Jesus was DOING, When JESUS, said to a person......YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN...
(Jesus was MAKING Himself God, BY Forgiving a person of their SIN.)

Yep! True! And Mosaic Law...Required any man, “making himself Equal with God, was making himself God, BY forgiving a man OF Sin, that is only Against God, and Only Forgiven BY God”... AND by Mosaic Law...such a Man WAS REQUIRED BY LAW, to be put to death.

* When you say “your ARE A new creature”....and “YOU CONTINUE to SIN”....you ARE claiming something SCRIPTURE “DOES NOT TEACH”.
* IN FACT....you ARE claiming, the Complete OPPOSITE of what Scripture “explicitly DOES TEACH.”

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

See WHO that applies to? A man born of God. Surely you know a man born of God IS born of God, by, through, of Conversion, being made “a new creature” and the old creature IS DEAD.

See WHAT that applies to? SIN....not trespasses of men against men.

See the EXPLICIT caveat? Whosoever IS BORN OF GOD.
THAT is not a man...HOPING to keep believing until his body dies, to THEN receive his Salvation.
THAT IS a man...who BELIEVED AND GAVE his body unto death, crucified with Christ Jesus AND RECEIVED forever, his Salvation.

Salvation IS ALWAYS “given” and “received” AFTER DEATH...
AND WHY....it IS Permanent...OSAS....
DEAD BODY’S, know nothing, choose nothing, confess nothing...they can not “un-confess” their belief!

 

[Taken]

theres more than 1 sin. How can you know how often you sin when you dont even know what sin is??

I know what SIN is ...

But You are welcome to give YOUR definition of SIN...
I’ll wait.

 

[Taken]

Where I am disagreeing with Lifelong sinner is, his belief that you cannot control yourself from committing sin.

Sometimes you can....Sometimes you can’t....Those Saved Believers with a New Nature That can NOT sin find themselves warring against the Old Adamic Nature—- It is not subject to the-Law Of God because it cannot be.....

It’s like this—- you have a White Dog and Black Dog within you—- the one that you “Feed “ the most will dominate the other one....wanna be blessed in your life ? Try to feed the White Dog and reap the rewards......feed the Black Dog and wind up Chastised and miserable .....you are STILL saved.... if you were Lost ,this battle would not even exist...there would be no White Dog within you..l.

What I disagree with YOU and lifelong....IS
SIN against God and TRESPASSING against men...IS THE SAME THING.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What I disagree with YOU and lifelong....IS
SIN against God and TRESPASSING against men...IS THE SAME THING.

Sin is doing something, anything that God hates. Bad thoughts, anger, lies, wandering eyes, giving someone the middle finger, sticking your tongue out at someone, all of these are examples of sin.

 

[Taken]

Sin is doing something, anything that God hates. Bad thoughts, anger, lies, wandering eyes, giving someone the middle finger, sticking your tongue out at someone, all of these are examples of sin.

Thank you for your input. I disagree.

God Himself becomes ANGRY...Jesus Himself became ANGRY...
And you say (for example that ANGER, IS a sin.
which would mean GOD committed SIN?
Which would mean JESUS committed SIN?

Yes?

 

[Taken]

@Lifelong_sinner

IF you properly speak face to face with another person...
And say...this, that, thank, love, (for example)...
You have stuck your tongue out of your mouth...
And you say...”THAT” is a sin?

Yes?

 

[Taken]

@Lifelong_sinner

While you are pondering your replies regarding my two other posts....
How do you know what God hates?

And

That which IS what God hates...
...what a man DOES Against God is called what?
...what a man DOES Against a man is called what?

 

[mailmandan]

The apostles commandments is Jesus speaking to you Dan.

Jesus said it in Mark 16:15-16.

I hear Jesus loud and clear. Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

I also hear Jesus loud and clear in (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All you hear is Campbellite eisegesis "..but he who is not baptized will be condemned," yet Jesus never said that.

Jesus said it in,
John 3:5,
-Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus said, unless one is born of water and the Spirit.. He did not say "unless one is born of baptism and the Spirit.." More Campbellite eisegesis. Now Jesus also said in John 4:10, "..If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In verse 14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." *Jesus connects this living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism.

In John 7:37, we read - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. *I also find it interesting that in 1 Corinthians 12:13, the apostle Paul says, "drink into one Spirit." Is the truth finally sinking in yet?

Now compare this passage to Mark 16:15-16.
Now interpret this passage the way Danthemailman interprets Mark 16:16,

"Unless one is born of water and not the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
"he who believes and is not baptized will be saved; ...."

Since Jesus did not say, "unless one is born of baptism and the Spirit" and He also did not say, "whoever is not baptized will not be saved," your argument is moot.

Would Danthemailman dare to twist John 3:5 the way he twists Jesus' words in Mark 16:15-16?

It's you who twists the words of Jesus in John 3:5 to read, "unless one is born of baptism and the Spirit" and you also twist the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16 to read, "but he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned." Roman Catholics, Mormons and other works-salvationists also twist the words of Jesus in John 3:5 and Mark 16:16 to draw the same erroneous conclusion that you do.

Of course he would not. That would include baptism and exclude The Spirits revealed word.
The verse clearly says water and Spirit as prerequisites/essential conditions to be saved.

Jesus simply said "water" in John 3:5 and not baptism. Jesus said "living water" in John 4:10,14 and John 7:37-39 and connects this living water with everlasting life, but you simply disregard that. The word "water" in scripture is also used as an emblem of the word of God and is associated with cleansing or washing (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) but you simply disregard that as well. You remain thoroughly indoctrinated and spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

Just as Mark 16:16 gives two essential conditions that must be met to be saved.

No it doesn't because there are not two conditions that result in condemnation, but only one..but he who does not believe will be condemned. How many conditions did Jesus say must be met to be saved in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Only one. BELIEVES.

Dan, cherry picks what he wants to save him in his custom version of his gospel.

That's exactly what you do. You isolate the first half of Mark 16:16 then ignore the second half of the verse and you also ignore John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26.

Jesus says it again here,
Ephesians 5:26,
-that Jesus might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.
By the word =John 3:5 and the Spirit
Washing of water= John 3:5 unless one is born of water

Washing of water by the word and not by baptism. In John 15:3, Jesus said - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. In 1 Peter 1:23, we read - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Unless one is baptized they cannot enter the kingdom
Same as saying they cannot be saved!

Jesus NEVER said unless one is baptized they cannot enter the kingdom. More eisegesis on your part. Your biased church indoctrination runs deep.

Dan's gospel of disobedience can never save.

Obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel is not disobedience, but is the obedience that saves. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Your perverted gospel of "water and works" salvation can never save.

Dan teaches we can disobey Jesus and not be baptized and Jesus will still save us,

I never said that believers who die before having the opportunity to get water baptized are refusing water baptism out of disobedience. Enough with the straw man arguments.

Here is Dan, denying what Jesus taught in Mark 16:16,
"he who believes and is baptized shall be saved"

I don't deny that at all. If he who believes shall be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well, but who did Jesus say would be condemned? He who is not baptized? NO. He who does not believe. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18)

Once again, here he denies Jesus,

Your straw man arguments and slander is getting old.

Yes He did Dan and you dont believe Him because you have no faith in His gospel.

My faith is absolutely in the gospel which is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) that is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of my salvation. It's you who has no faith in the gospel. You trust in "water and works" for salvation. That is a "different" gospel.

We see that Dan in fact teaches a doctrine of do nothing disobedience to be saved.

Choosing to believe the gospel unto salvation is not disobedience. (Romans 1:16) Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is teaching disobedience to be saved. Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Dan has taught you can disobey the commandment to be water baptized and you will be saved,
Acts 10:47-48,
-and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Dan's response to Jesus' commandments:

Dan teaches we are saved when we believe in Him (Acts 10:43) prior to receiving water baptism. Receiving water baptism is a command that believers are expected to obey (and I have obeyed that command) but it's not obeying the command to get water baptized that saves, but believing in Him which saves, just as Peter said in Acts 10:43.

You are blind Danthemailman,
Matthew 15:14

Actually, it's YOU who is blind (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) just like the Pharisees in Matthew 15:14.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Boast until you can’t boast any more! Nobody cares.....just don’t claim that whatever you are “ boasting” about ( in this case it is your “ righteous Works” that God sees as Dung, btw) GOT you Saved or KEEPS you Saved.

No, JESUS is going to be boasting about the righteous deeds of the saints.

your boasting stems from an inward pride showing itself on the outside

You need to reread my post. I showed you where the Bible says JESUS is going to do the boasting of the righteous deeds of the saints, not the saints, lol.

In the same passage, if you don't have any deeds for him to boast in you get cast into the lake of fire.

 

[mailmandan]

Dan you are taking Jesus' teaching in John chapter 3 out of context.
Chapter 3 of John, WHAT ARE THEY DOING IN CHAPTER 3 Dan?
Read the whole chapter. Don't go away from chapter 3 to other chapters of the bible like you did here,

I'm not taking anything out of context and I did read the entire chapter. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus leads us right into John 3:14-18. Let's read it together - "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Read John chapter 3,
John 3:3,
-Jesus answered and said to him,...Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Dan Jesus is teaching about being born again in chapter 3!

I understand fully that Jesus is teaching about being born again in chapter 3. So why did you conveniently forget to mention John 3:14-18 and skip all the way down to John 3:22-23? I know why. Because you would WALK AROUND MOUNTAINS OF GRACE IN ORDER TO FIND WATER.

John 3:5,
-Jesus answered unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

Yes, unless one is born of water and the Spirit and not born of baptism and the Spirit.

Jesus is teaching about being born again.
Now what are they doing in chapter 3 of John Dan?

John 3:22-23,
-Now John was baptizing in Aenon near Salim because there was much water there, and they came and were baptized.

Do you mean what were they doing during Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus or AFTER the conversation was over and Jesus and His disciples moved on? In regards to water baptism in John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing.. You are getting out of context.

Now Danthemailman what was the purpose of John's water baptism?
It was for the forgiveness of sins.

Wait a minute! A common argument used by Campbellites in an attempt to "get around" the thief on the cross being saved through faith "apart from water baptism" is, "the thief was not subject to baptism because he died under the OT mandate. Well, John's baptism preceded the death of Jesus, which still leaves us under the OT mandate. So in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, was this baptism of repentance FOR (in order to obtain) the remission of sins or was it or FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? It would have to be the latter in order to agree with the OT mandate argument from Campbellites. You can't have it both ways.

*In John 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water FOR repentance.. Now was this baptism FOR (in order to obtain) repentance or FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) remission of sins received upon repentance? If translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water FOR (in order to obtain) repentance? or I baptize you with water FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) repentance? Obviously, the latter. So the water baptism is not necessary for salvation under the OT mandate, but is necessary for salvation under the NT mandate argument is bogus and doesn't hold water.

Under the OT and NT mandate, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:39; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

What happens when your sins are washed away, remitted,?
Answer: You are born again!
Mark 1:4-5,
-John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Baptism is FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) remission of sins received upon repentance.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." This was prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) *HERMENEUTICS*

John's water baptism washed away the Jews sins, they were born again.
Exactly what Jesus was teaching Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

Absolutely false. You just don't get it.

Learn context Dan.

Your idea of learn context has only lead you to more eisegesis and you need to learn how to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i agree that its every hour, but on this forum you got many a perfect persons saying they no longer sin. At all. Which is crazy to me. I feel like by time i even get out of bed in the morning, i’ve committed at least 3 sins to start the day.

if you can even get people on here to admit to being sinners i’d feel like you accomplished something.

But you are an unbeliever, we are not. Born again people are not like you. We are increasing in our righteousness, while you, an unbeliever, are increasing in your unrighteousness:

"while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed, since you know from whom you have learned them." 2 Timothy 3:13-14​

The favorite thing for unbelievers to do is make born again people out to be just as bad of sinners as they are (it's pretty much the sign you're dealing with an unbeliever). Which, if one is truly born again, is not true at all. Born again people are growing up into Christ. Unbelievers are shrinking down further and further into their sin.

 

[Titus]

hear Jesus loud and clear. Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

Danthemailman teaches all can disobey Jesus' commandment to be baptized and still be saved because,
Only faith + nothing else= salvation
Conclusion: Dan's gospel is salvation by disobedience.

He admits you can disobey God and be saved here,

(general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized)

Danthemailman has proven me correct by admitting that individuals can disobey the commandment to be baptized and still be saved,
Acts 10:47-48.
He proves his own doctrine to be salvation by disobedience

 

[Titus]

I'm not taking anything out of context and I did read the entire chapter. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus leads us right into John 3:14-18. Let's read it together - "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I understand fully that Jesus is teaching about being born again in chapter 3. So why did you conveniently forget to mention John 3:14-18 and skip all the way down to John 3:22-23? I know why. Because you would WALK AROUND MOUNTAINS OF GRACE IN ORDER TO FIND WATER.

Yes, unless one is born of water and the Spirit and not born of baptism and the Spirit.

Do you mean what were they doing during Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus or AFTER the conversation was over and Jesus and His disciples moved on? In regards to water baptism in John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing.. You are getting out of context.

Wait a minute! A common argument used by Campbellites in an attempt to "get around" the thief on the cross being saved through faith "apart from water baptism" is, "the thief was not subject to baptism because he died under the OT mandate. Well, John's baptism preceded the death of Jesus, which still leaves us under the OT mandate. So in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, was this baptism of repentance FOR (in order to obtain) the remission of sins or was it or FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? It would have to be the latter in order to agree with the OT mandate argument from Campbellites. You can't have it both ways.

*In John 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water FOR repentance.. Now was this baptism FOR (in order to obtain) repentance or FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) remission of sins received upon repentance? If translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water FOR (in order to obtain) repentance? or I baptize you with water FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) repentance? Obviously, the latter. So the water baptism is not necessary for salvation under the OT mandate, but is necessary for salvation under the NT mandate argument is bogus and doesn't hold water.

Under the OT and NT mandate, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:39; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Baptism is FOR (in regards to/on the basis of) remission of sins received upon repentance.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." This was prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) *HERMENEUTICS*

Absolutely false. You just don't get it.

Your idea of learn context has only lead you to more eisegesis and you need to learn how to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

Give me a Yes or No answer Danthemailman,

In your gospel,
Can I have faith alone and reject the commandment to be baptized, Acts 10:47-48
And be saved by faith only and not obey Jesus' commandment, Mark 16:15-16?

 

[Titus]

Dan Moses and the Isrealites were not saved by faith alone,
THEY HAD TO LOOK UPON THE SRPENT ON THE POLE OR THEY WOULD DIE.

That is being saved by believing and obeying the command to look at the serpent on the pole,

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him

You think they could be saved by belief alone and reject the commandment to look at the snake on the pole.
THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO LIVE DAN

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Any Believer can fall into Error......God will bring him back....if he doesn’t , the Amazing Grace of God has it covered.

What I find amazing is how in Hypergrace/Freegrace doctrine God's grace is super-abounding to keep one saved despite all things, but too puny to keep a person from falling away into sin and unbelief.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

BB -That is contradictory.

A man is naturally born in sin, commits sin.
...What IS a naturally born mans COMMISSION of Sin?

ANSWER:
OT and NT —->
1) His natural spirit in his natural heart, IN his natural body....
that DOES NOT Believe in God!
2) His souls life (Gods Breath), IN his natural body...
that has BECOME CORRUPTED, being IN his natural body...
that DOES NOT Believe in God
NT and forward —->
3) DOES NOT Believe in God or Jesus IS the Christ Messiah WHOM Gods Sent.

* “IF” a man’s natural spirit in his natural heart......HAS....come into Belief IN GOD...BEFORE the man physically DIES...God SHALL FORGIVE and SAVE that man, WHEN his body Physically Dies....AND...Raise that mans BODY sinless/glorified....IN the First Resurrection.

* “IF” a man’s natural spirit in his natural heart......HAS....come into Belief IN GOD....”and” IN Jesus IS the Christ Messiah, BEFORE the man physically DIES...”AND”....the man HAS heartfully, (via his natural spirit) confessed His Belief TO the Lord....and Spiritually given his BODY to Death, Crucified WITH, The Lord,
The Lord God, SHALL FORGIVE and SAVE and QUICKEN, ie. CONVERT that man ..AND...The “ Lord” Shall Raise that mans BODY sinless/glorified ... BEFORE
* The Wrath from Heaven rains DOWN from Heaven
* That Wrath IS the Last great Tribulation to come DOWN from Heaven.
* That IS BEFORE Gods First Resurrection.
* That IS BEFORE Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign.

ALL Men have FREEWILL.
Men live in DIFFERENT historical and present Eras.
NO man IN ANY ERA...
1) “IS” permanently FORGIVEN his sin AGAINST God; Of having HAD Disbelief;
2) “HAS” his soul permanently RESTORED and permanently FORGIVEN his sin AGAINST God: Of having HAD corrupted his soul;
3) “HAS” his natural spirit ie the truth in his heart, circumcised, cut off, and Permanently given a new heart, given the SEED of God, QUICKENING, (ie rebirthing his own spirit), WITH Gods Holy Spirit of Truth.
..............UNTIL the MANS BODY .......IS DEAD......!!!

*PHYSICAL BODILY DEATH...WAS REQUIRED for 4,000 Years...BEFORE a man COULD RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

*PHYSICAL BODILY DEATH...FOR the LAST 6,000 Years...CONTINUES, today, and through the SEALS, through the TRUMPS, during the Last Great Tribulation....BEFORE a man CAN RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

For the LAST 2,000 YEARS...
* AN EXCEPTION...VIA a NEW Testament....
Was offered BY God, THROUGH Jesus, OF Christ...
FOR any man:
WHO...heartfully repents his own sorrow for having DISBELIEVED.
WHO..heartfully repents his own sorrow for having CORRUPTED his soul
WHO....heartfully believes IN his natural spirit in his natural heart.
WHO....heartfully CONFESSES his belief...OF his natural spirit.
WHO....Willfully Lays down his bodily life, crucified with Christ Jesus.

THAT MAN......HAS expressly fulfilled Gods REQUIREMENT, TO:
BE permanently Forgiven
BE permanently soul RESTORED, ie saved.
BE permanently spirit QUICKENED, ie spirit born of Gods Seed.
BE permanently body, washed (Jesus’ blood), sanctified (ie set apart),
....justified, (forever with the Lord God)
BE temporarily INDWELT with Gods Spirit, ie Light, covering his sins.
BE temporarily INDWELT, with Gods Spirit, ie Power, to Keep that man.
BE temporarily USING the Lords Risen body, to dwell IN, until his own body is RISEN up in sinless glory.

THAT ^ IS A CONVERTED man.....THAT IS A NEW CREATION...
body, soul, spirit....ALREADY having QUALIFIED, BY FULFILLING EVERY REQUIREMENT, FOR THAT MAN TO...
RECEIVE HIS FORGIVENESS, HIS SALVATION, HIS QUICKENING...
BEFORE HIS PHYSICAL DEATH.

NOW, BB....
WHAT DOES THAT ^ HAVE to do with a man’s minds, “impure” thoughts?

How is a mans minds “impure” thoughts...A SIN AGAINST God?

Do you believe, YOUR thoughts, YOUR actions AGAINST other men, ARE SINS AGAINST MEN?

Did God INSTRUCT “you”, to BELIEVE IN EARTHLY MEN?
Did God INSTRUCT “you”, DISBELIEF IN EARTHLY MEN was a SIN AGAINST MEN? AGAINST God?
Did God INSTRUCT “you”, to FORGIVE MEN of “SIN”?

Do you realize, Conversion IS an OFFERING of God, for “A” man to have an ASSURED (before a mans physical death) forever relationship WITH the Lord God Almighty?

What does a mans assured forever relationship WITH God have to do with THAT mans relationship with ANY other person?

A man having RECEIVED an assured permanent relationship WITH God..HAD nothing whatsoever TO DO WITH consideration, or of God “changing, renewing, rebirthing, a mans MIND”.

WHEN the Lord God...FORGAVE a mans natural spirit OF his SIN of disbelief Against God, and of the man Having Corrupting his soul...
The Lord God...ALSO forgave that man OF ALL his Trespasses, AGAINST other men.

Gods FORGIVENESS of that mans SIN against God IS PERMANENT, WHEN the body is DEAD....it is not POSSIBLE for a DEAD BODY to commit SIN against GOD....(ie remember, crucified?)

But, that flesh is still physically living. (Blood IS the life of the body).
If your blood is still flowing, the physical body is carnally living.

CAN YOU STILL repeatedly, Carnally, naturally, TRESPASS AGAINST MEN?
OF course. IS that a SIN AGAINST men? No. IS that a SIN AGAINST God? No. IS that a TRESPASS AGAINST men? Yes.


Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

A converted man IS a man with an assured forever relationship with God.

A converted man (alive in his flesh body) LIKE ANY OTHER MAN, (NOT converted, forgiven, saved, quickened)......WILL have relationships WITH other people.
* cheating, lying, theft, intent, unintended, accidental, etc. OCCURS between and among ALL people.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT TO USE the POWER of God in his “new spirit”, to NOT ACT on the deceptive thoughts of HIS CARNAL MIND, but instead, ACT on the thoughts of his new quickened spirit.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT “IF” he “HAS” Trespassed Against an other man........FIX IT! Ask the man for forgiveness of his Trespass....MAKE RIGHT the damages, harm he has cause the man he Trespassed AGAINST...restore, fix, replace ... possessions, reputation, the Trespasser HAS Harmed.
* A “godly” man IS TAUGHT, to as well, Forgive others who “trespass against him”... and so also will God forgive a mans Trespasses...
(Regardless IF an other man “forgives” a trespass against him).

You are mixing...a mans Exclusive Relationship with God concerning...
SIN Against God....and SIN Forgiven By God...

AS equal to ....a mans Relationship with OTHER MEN concerning...
TRESPASSING of men against men....and men forgiving men of TRESPASSES against men.

SIN...is only Against God.
ONLY God forgives SIN.

TRESPASSES....is man Against man.
MEN...and God...can and do Forgive Trespasses of men against men.

IF you recall...WHY the Jewish Pharisees WANTED Jesus Crucified?
WHAT DID, mosaic Law TEACH for 4,000 YEARS?
SIN...was AGAINST God.
ONLY GOD...could forgive SIN AGAINST Him.

The Pharisee’s KNEW, and SAID, exactly what Jesus was DOING, When JESUS, said to a person......YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN...
(Jesus was MAKING Himself God, BY Forgiving a person of their SIN.)

Yep! True! And Mosaic Law...Required any man, “making himself Equal with God, was making himself God, BY forgiving a man OF Sin, that is only Against God, and Only Forgiven BY God”... AND by Mosaic Law...such a Man WAS REQUIRED BY LAW, to be put to death.

* When you say “your ARE A new creature”....and “YOU CONTINUE to SIN”....you ARE claiming something SCRIPTURE “DOES NOT TEACH”.
* IN FACT....you ARE claiming, the Complete OPPOSITE of what Scripture “explicitly DOES TEACH.”

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

See WHO that applies to? A man born of God. Surely you know a man born of God IS born of God, by, through, of Conversion, being made “a new creature” and the old creature IS DEAD.

See WHAT that applies to? SIN....not trespasses of men against men.

See the EXPLICIT caveat? Whosoever IS BORN OF GOD.
THAT is not a man...HOPING to keep believing until his body dies, to THEN receive his Salvation.
THAT IS a man...who BELIEVED AND GAVE his body unto death, crucified with Christ Jesus AND RECEIVED forever, his Salvation.

Salvation IS ALWAYS “given” and “received” AFTER DEATH...
AND WHY....it IS Permanent...OSAS....
DEAD BODY’S, know nothing, choose nothing, confess nothing...they can not “un-confess” their belief!

Sorry.....you have a strange writing style that I find difficult to read and understand....and I tend to ignore lengthy posts ....could you condense this post and write in a manner more similar to the way people talk in real life....not trying to “ dis” you , but as it stands ( for me anyway) reading your posts are too difficult and time consuming.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What I disagree with YOU and lifelong....IS
SIN against God and TRESPASSING against men...IS THE SAME THING.

Perhaps.....I don’t really care.....What I care about is making sure that my sins are “ blotted out”—— and they are—— not only “ that” , they are “ Forgotten” ......They're as removed as far as “ the East from the West”..... why? Because I REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace, Given to Him by Jesus....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What I find amazing is how in Hypergrace/Freegrace doctrine God's grace is super-abounding to keep one saved despite all things, but too puny to keep a person from falling away into sin and unbelief.

I think that you are confusing Apples with Oranges ......Grace is Mercy in Action that forgives and forgets ALL of the sins of the Believer because of his Faith in the Gospel.....it is never “ puny”
What is “ puny” is us....Puny in the sense that we are ALL capable of “ stumbling” in these weak bodies of flesh....Believers are fully capable of falling into Error and giving into temptations

It’s like the warning Paul gave to his followers about being gentle and humble when somebody has to be corrected for his sins, like the guy that slept with his step- mother.....he was “ handed over to Satan” to be Chastised , but when he was restored and welcomed back into the fold,there was no reason for anybody to be cocky about it—-Paul warned them all about getting” haughty” about this man’s troubles.....Paul warned them—— “ YOU might be NEXT!

Any “ man” can be Puny and fall into sin,but not the Grace that always trumps that Sin when we take those sins BOLDLY to the “ Throne Of Grace”...... I’m there quite often....I don’t try to take advantage of it, but I’m sure glad it is there for us “ in our time of need”....