Once saved always saved

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Dryhn

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Dear Dryhn,
Paul taught faith in Christ and that it is a gift from God. It is that faith that makes Christ's pathway straight for Christ to come again and save/convert the person.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The time of waiting occurs between the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (to convert them).

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the Rain, as the Latter and Early Rain unto the earth.

Isa 40:29 He gives power to the weak (by the Early Rain), and to those who have no might He increases strength. 30 Even the youths (babes) shall faint and be weary, and the young men (babes) shall utterly fall (fall from grace), 31 But those (the elect) who wait on the LORD shall renew their strength (by the Latter Rain); they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint (once saved, always saved).

The time period of waiting is referred to as "time, times and a half, 3 1/2 years, 42 months and 1260 days". When you read a scripture that contains these terms, know that the verse is teaching on the spiritual events that occur to a babe between the Early and Latter Rains. During each babe's time of waiting for Christ to return to convert them, they will come under the deceptions of the spirit of anti-Christ and will fall away. They fall away because they have accepted Satan's false gospel which mixes works with faith. For this reason, a babe's time of waiting is called a time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

As a result of the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ and the babe's acceptance of Satan's false gospel, the babe will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) and will become a MAN OF SIN/ANTI-CHRIST/BEAST WITH SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS & CROWNS. These spiritual terms represent all apostate babes. THERE WILL NOT BE A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL CALLED THE ANTI-CHRIST WHO RISES TO POWER AT THE LITERAL END OF THE AGE. That is a false teaching from spiritually blind apostate teachers.

The mixing of works with faith is the "sin that leads to death" (1John 5:16). It is founded upon the false Doctrine of Free Will. When a babe mixes works with faith, they have consumed the mixed wine presented in Prv 23:29-32 which I quoted above. This makes the pathway of Christ "crooked". Christ requires His pathway to be "straight" (faith alone) before He will appear to a babe for their conversion.

Since all babes fall away, how can an apostate babe be saved before they die?

For the ELECT babes ONLY, Christ will come again to them before they die and will pour out the Latter Rain. The Latter Rain is the baptism. This event will cause them to repent of their works which will restore their faith. With the pathway now made "straight", Christ will "appear" to them (the second coming) and convert them.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and Rain (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

AFTER AN ELECT PERSON IS CONVERTED, THEIR SALVATION IS ETERNALLY SECURE. The phrase "once saved, always saved" applies at this point.

Paul's conversion is the type that all elect believers will follow. Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. He "typed" falling away during his three days in Damascus. After his three days were complete, Christ came again to Paul and poured out the Latter Rain. Paul’s spiritual blindness was then healed and the scales fell from his eyes. Christ then appeared and converted Paul. This was Paul's day of salvation.

Joe
Hi Joe,
In advance, GOD already knows who will accept the saving gospel but does not pre-choose who will
1 Tim 2:4, 2 Pet 3:9
Based on FORE-knowledge I believe GOD chose specific roles for some of those saved believers eg Paul

Since Paul was chosen by Christ to teach me how to be saved, I rely on what Christ through Paul teaches that applies to me.

OSAS today I believe has only one ongoing condition & that is the same condition that is required to be saved, justified, HS sealed today
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13

Titus 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1 are the performance requirements till the day of rapture
 

Dryhn

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H

It says he predestines in multiple places.
Lol.... he does not just pick whoever and the rest of people are out of luck


He predestines those He knows are going to pick him thru free will....
LOL
Predestines based on FOREknowledge not eeny meeny miney mo, off to hell you go
Dont you understand 1 Tim 2:4 & 2 Pet 3:9 ? :)
 

WHO ME

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Dear Kayla,
Yes, God the Father predestined those who will be saved in this age. The doctrine of free will is a lie from Satan.

To accomplish the salvation of the elect, Christ will do 100% of the spiritual work within each of them before they die. Nothing is left to chance or to the person's "will". Christ will give them their "will" to act and to do. Christ will even give them the answer of their tongue.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

As you said, the elect have to "choose it" but it is Christ within them that causes them make their choice.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom he called, them He also justified: and whom he justified, them He also glorified.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
(faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


In my post just above (#297), I outlined the pathway that Christ will cause the elect to travel to their salvation. It begins with the Early Rain, followed by a "time of waiting" for the Lord to return with salvation.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.


Joe
So if free will is a lie, then God is a liar when he says Christ died for the whole world then...
 

Dryhn

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Correct just as I said before your post, everyone has free will.... all men to be saved 1tim 2:4...

I cant go round and round with you forever geeez
You are going round & round with yourself
You don't even know who your Christ chosen Apostle is that teaches you how to be saved GEEEEZ
 

WHO ME

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LOL
Predestines based on FOREknowledge not eeny meeny miney mo, off to hell you go
Dont you understand 1 Tim 2:4 & 2 Pet 3:9 ? :)
In post 334 I said


Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forknows who will accept him and he predestines those people

Romans 8:29-30 for who he forknew he predestinate 30) who he predestinated he called and who he called he justified and them he glorified


(((( so clearly I say predistine is based on forenowledge))))))


Learn to read..... this is why I choose to not go on forever with someone who doesnt read and then makes a foolish statement..


So will you admit you were wrong in your eeny meeny miney mo?
 

FaithWillDo

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Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forknows who will accept him and he predestines those people

Romans 8:29-30 for who he forknew he predestinate 30) who he predestinated he called and who he called he justified and them he glorified


Those people who believe God only predestined a few call God a liar when He says Jesus died for the whole world...


Everyone has the freewill to come to christ and God already knows who those people are and predestines those people....
Dear Whome,
So you believe that God foreknew (like a fortune teller) who would accept Christ? You then imply that God lies to us in His Word by claiming that He chose the elect in the first place.

Here is the truth about those He foreknew:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (all His work)

God foreknew who would be the elect because He chose them and then worked to accomplish their salvation during each of their lifetimes. The person's work or free will decisions played no part in it.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, (why did He do this?) according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God did not predestinate the elect because He looked into the future to see who was going to accept Christ. Your understanding of God's foreknowledge is completely unscriptural and it makes God out to be a liar and a thief.

Here is more on where God's foreknowledge comes from:

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

God's foreknowledge comes from the certainty that His word will accomplish what He declared would happen.

Joe
 
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Dryhn

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In post 334 I said


Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forknows who will accept him and he predestines those people

Romans 8:29-30 for who he forknew he predestinate 30) who he predestinated he called and who he called he justified and them he glorified


(((( so clearly I say predistine is based on forenowledge))))))


Learn to read..... this is why I choose to not go on forever with someone who doesnt read and then makes a foolish statement..


So will you admit you were wrong in your eeny meeny miney mo?
GOD knowing who will believe the gospel is NOT GOD CHOOSING who will believe the Gospel
Can't you see the difference ? :)

1793838128386.png

Now using verse, who did Christ select to teach you the saving Gospel ?
Take your time
 

FaithWillDo

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So if free will is a lie, then God is a liar when he says Christ died for the whole world then...
Dear Who Me,
God is not a liar and Christ did die for the whole world. Since salvation is 100% His work, nothing can stop Christ from accomplishing the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.


Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Your belief in free will is causing you to falsely believe Christ can't overcome a person's will. This is nonsense:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Joe
 

WHO ME

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Dear Who Me,
God is not a liar and Christ did die for the whole world. Since salvation is 100% His work, nothing can stop Christ from accomplishing the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.


Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Your belief in free will is causing you to falsely believe Christ can't overcome a person's will. This is nonsense:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


Joe
Didnt I say christ died for the whole world?... I believe you said free will is a lie.... to which I said christ died for the whole world meaning everyone has a free will to believe or not...

If christ died for all but all doesnt become saved isnt it because they have the free will to believe or not?
 

WHO ME

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GOD knowing who will believe the gospel is NOT GOD CHOOSING who will believe the Gospel
Can't you see the difference ? :)

View attachment 92762
And I didnt say that, I said he KNOWS who will choose to believe and those he predestines...... no where did I say he chooses who will believe...NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT.

In post 334 I said
Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forenows who will accept him and he predestines those people

AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG AND REFUSE TO MAKE AMENDS for eeny meeny miney mo ..

Im done with you....
 

WHO ME

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Faithwilldo said:
Your belief in free will is causing you to falsely believe Christ can't overcome a person's will. This is nonsense:

WHO ME replies: so your saying Christ forces a person to believe..... if Christ died for all (which He did) but not all are saved isnt that because they have the free will to decide yes or no? If Christ Overcomes someones will isnt he forcing them into belief or predestionation of choosing some but not others... if he overcomes someones will why not everyones will? Otherwise he is choosing who is going to be saved.... how can he die for all but not choose all or overcome all if his desire is that All should be saved
 

FaithWillDo

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Didnt I say christ died for the whole world?... I believe you said free will is a lie.... to which I said christ died for the whole world meaning everyone has a free will to believe or not...

If christ died for all but all doesnt become saved isnt it because they have the free will to believe or not?
Dear Who Me,
All mankind will be saved by the spiritual works of Christ but not all will be the elect/first fruits/heirs. The salvation of the elect comes first in this age, then the salvation of the balance of mankind will come at the end of the final age. A person's supposed free will ability plays no part in their salvation. The part that Christ plays in their salvation is all that matters:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Scripture teaches that no one can believe and have faith until Christ causes it to happen. Christ does so by freely giving a person both the Early and Latter Rains. When Christ decides it is time to save a person, He will do all that is necessary for them to have faith in Him. It is this fatih that makes His pathway straight for Him to appear and convert them.

In the end, all mankind will be in the Kingdom of Heaven.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (the elect). 24 Then cometh the consummation (at the end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe
 

Dryhn

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And I didnt say that, I said he KNOWS who will choose to believe and those he predestines...... no where did I say he chooses who will believe...NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT.

In post 334 I said
Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forenows who will accept him and he predestines those people

AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG AND REFUSE TO MAKE AMENDS for eeny meeny miney mo ..

Im done with you....
I said he KNOWS who will choose to believe and those he predestines.
CORRECT !!!
God KNOWS who will believe and of those who believe GOD chooses what to do with them

Now using verses, who did Christ select to teach you how to be saved ?
 

WHO ME

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Dear Who Me,
All mankind will be saved by the spiritual works of Christ but not all will be the elect/first fruits/heirs. The salvation of the elect comes first in this age, then the salvation of the balance of mankind will come at the end of the final age. A person's supposed free will ability plays no part in their salvation. The part that Christ plays in their salvation is all that matters:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Scripture teaches that no one can believe and have faith until Christ causes it to happen. Christ does so by freely giving a person both the Early and Latter Rains. When Christ decides it is time to save a person, He will do all that is necessary for them to have faith in Him. It is this fatih that makes His pathway straight for Him to appear and convert them.

In the end, all mankind will be in the Kingdom of Heaven.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (the elect). 24 Then cometh the consummation (at the end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe
Dont think Ive ever heard anyone say all will be saved.... while Christ died for all not all will be saved
 
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Dryhn

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Luke 12:40-48 are for todays believer since it is the rapture

Dont think Ive ever heard anyone say all will be saved.... while Christ died for all not all will be saved
Christ died for those who believe and not for those who reject
 

FaithWillDo

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Faithwilldo said:
Your belief in free will is causing you to falsely believe Christ can't overcome a person's will. This is nonsense:

WHO ME replies: so your saying Christ forces a person to believe..... if Christ died for all (which He did) but not all are saved isnt that because they have the free will to decide yes or no? If Christ Overcomes someones will isnt he forcing them into belief or predestionation of choosing some but not others... if he overcomes someones will why not everyones will? Otherwise he is choosing who is going to be saved.... how can he die for all but not choose all or overcome all if his desire is that All should be saved
Dear Who Me,
No, Christ never forces anyone to believe. But after He does His spiritual work within them, everyone will do so willingly.

Christ causes a person to believe by changing their spiritual makeup. After Christ gives a person the Holy Spirit, no one will continue to reject Him:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Christ changes hearts and minds, not by force, but by giving each person the gift of the Holy Spirit. And because Christ is God, He does what pleases Him without asking a person's permission to do it - and what pleases Him is to save all mankind.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Joe
 
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WHO ME

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GOD knowing who will believe the gospel is NOT GOD CHOOSING who will believe the Gospel
Can't you see the difference ? :)

View attachment 92762

Now using verse, who did Christ select to teach you the saving Gospel ?
Take your
And I didnt say that, I said he KNOWS who will choose to believe and those he predestines...... no where did I say he chooses who will believe...NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT.

In post 334 I said
Thats right both free will and predestined work together... God forenows who will accept him and he predestines those people

AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG AND REFUSE TO MAKE AMENDS for eeny meeny miney mo ..
 

Dryhn

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Dear Who Me,
No, Christ never forces anyone to believe. But after He does His spiritual work within them, everyone will do so willingly.

Christ causes a person to believe by changing their spiritual makeup. After Christ gives a person the Holy Spirit, no one will continue to reject Him:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Christ changes hearts and minds, not by force, but by giving each person the gift of the Holy Spirit. And because Christ is God, He does what pleases Him without asking a person's permission to do it - and what pleases Him is to save all mankind.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Joe
FWD >>> but by giving each person the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Doesn't that only happen once they hear, trust & believe the gospel ?

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

WHO ME

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You accuse me of the above of saying

GOD knowing who will believe the gospel is NOT GOD CHOOSING who will believe the Gospel
Can't you see the difference ?

Which I did not say.... so you were wrong in accusing me of that.....