Once saved always saved

[David1701]

so is the Catholic Church or the Protestant denominations more shattered into pieces?

The Tower of Babel has remained intact (with all its wickedness and lies; in fact, they have increased); meanwhile, the Christians have scattered into various denominations and independent congregations.

 

[rwb]

Is reptentance a kind of ‘good work’ ?

Yes, it is a work of faith, for whosoever has faith to believe in Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[Dryhn]

so is the Catholic Church or the Protestant denominations more shattered into pieces?

Pope/Vatican is good at controlling the finances of all it's branches who wont look a gift horse in the mouth - a good way of keeping members in line

 

[WHO ME]

not to mention. John said his his epistle that a child of God can not live in sin.. so if they can not longer practice sin as they did before they got saved, how could they lose salvation.

Cant or wont?
A saved child of God has the free will to do either but John doesnt mean that.
John means wont practice sin vs cant practice sin, your answer seems to be saying that once your a child of God you Cant practice as if you just physically unable to sin when its a choice you make.

Im not saying a child of God never sins ever..... just that its a choice and that if your going to consider yourself a child of God you will make that choice not to sin..... maybe I took your post wrong but it seems that your saying a child Cant because something keeps you from sinning outside your choice...

Ofcourse the Holy Spirit helps you to not sin but its your decision

You can fall away into your old lifestyle for however long and practice sin

Paul says in romans that if you willfuly sin theres no more sacrifice for your sins.... meaning there was a sacrifice for your sins but you fell back into your old life and sinned over and again.... paul finnishes that chapter by saying - but we are not those who fall back to destruction.....
(Paul is including himself when he says "we" meaning we as believers)(unbelievers never rise out of destruction - only believers can fall back into it)

Doesnt mean you cant repent and again live the life of a child of God... the so called prodicals son he is with the Father but, while hes out in the world willfully sinning he is dead (lost) to the Father (spiritually) and theres no sacrifice for his sin at that point Until he repents and lives again.... if he does not repent he stays dead and lost in destruction.... its a choice

 

[rwb]

The saving Gospel that Paul taught is Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13

Please list the saving gospel verses that the 12 taught

The saving gospel the twelve and Paul taught are highlighted below in red. Also in red where Paul says, "whether it were I or they (the twelve), so WE preach, and so ye believed."

According to Paul in the passage below, the twelve preached the same gospel of Christ that he preached. That is "that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And the He was buried, and the He rose again the third day according to the scriptures". In fact Paul calls himself the least of the Apostles because he persecuted the church of God.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

 

[Dryhn]

The saving gospel the twelve and Paul taught are highlighted below in red. Also in red where Paul says, "whether it were I or they (the twelve), so WE preach, and so ye believed."

According to Paul in the passage below, the twelve preached the same gospel of Christ that he preached. That is "that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And the He was buried, and the He rose again the third day according to the scriptures". In fact Paul calls himself the least of the Apostles because he persecuted the church of God.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

Please list the actual saving gospel verses the 12 used BEFORE Paul was Acts 9:15 commissioned by Christ

 

[Dryhn]

Cant or wont?
A saved child of God has the free will to do either but John doesnt mean that.
John means wont practice sin vs cant practice sin, your answer seems to be saying that once your a child of God you Cant practice as if you just physically unable to sin when its a choice you make.

Im not saying a child of God never sins ever..... just that its a choice and that if your going to consider yourself a child of God you will make that choice not to sin..... maybe I took your post wrong but it seems that your saying a child Cant because something keeps you from sinning outside your choice...

Ofcourse the Holy Spirit helps you to not sin but its your decision

You can fall away into your old lifestyle for however long and practice sin

Paul says in romans that if you willfuly sin theres no more sacrifice for your sins.... meaning there was a sacrifice for your sins but you fell back into your old life and sinned over and again.... paul finnishes that chapter by saying - but we are not those who fall back to destruction.....
(Paul is including himself when he says "we" meaning we as believers)(unbelievers never rise out of destruction - only believers can fall back into it)

Doesnt mean you cant repent and again live the life of a child of God... the so called prodicals son he is with the Father but, while hes out in the world willfully sinning he is dead (lost) to the Father (spiritually) and theres no sacrifice for his sin at that point Until he repents and lives again.... if he does not repent he stays dead and lost in destruction.... its a choice

Paul says in romans that if you willfuly sin theres no more sacrifice for your sins.
Thats Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Scripture does not teach that Paul wrote Hebrews.

 

[WHO ME]

Pope/Vatican is good at controlling the finances of all it's branches who wont look a gift horse in the mouth - a good way of keeping members in line

Add to that that the rcc tells them theres no salvation outside the rcc also.

The cc tells unbelievers that they can keep their religions and by extension gods and will still go to heaven because the rcc has purgatory which then deny the one who bought them Jesus.... the rcc climbs up another way and is a thief and robber... so the unbeliever is told he doesnt need Jesus because purgatory will sufice

The catholic is told purgatory and belonging to the church will sufice while the chistian has to denouce his bellief in christ and accept the rcc's way...


So the unbeliever dies without the blood of christ
The catholic dies adding to Christ the rcc
The saved christian dies having denounced Christ thru believing on his name alone and being saved and adding the rcc


So all 3 groups go to destruction......and no one is saved

 

[WHO ME]

Paul says in romans that if you willfuly sin theres no more sacrifice for your sins.
Thats Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Scripture doe not teach that Paul wrote Hebrews.

Yes correct hebrews but it remains the same meaning....

 

[rwb]

Please list the actual saving gospel verses the 12 used BEFORE Paul was Acts 9:15 commissioned by Christ

What apostles' doctrine do you think they continued steadfastly in if not the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ? If this sermon to these men of Judaea is not the gospel of Christ which Peter with the eleven preached, what would you call it?

Ac 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Ac 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Ac 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Ac 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Ac 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Ac 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Ac 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Ac 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 2:42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

 

[Dryhn]

Yes correct hebrews but it remains the same meaning....

Yes, to the audience Hebrews was written to.
What do you believe are the saving Gospel verses that Paul taught that applies to you ?

 

[Stumpmaster]

You should change yours, as follows -

Mar 14:21 The Son of Man indeed goes, as it has been written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It were good for that man if he had never been born.

I can't change the context which is Jesus Himself choosing the moment to apply FORKNOWLEDGE of Judas betraying Him.

 

[Dryhn]

What apostles' doctrine do you think they continued steadfastly in if not the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ? If this sermon to these men of Judaea is not the gospel of Christ which Peter with the eleven preached, what would you call it?

Ac 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Ac 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Ac 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Ac 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Ac 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Ac 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Ac 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Ac 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 2:42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Also:-
Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed were together and sold everything

Where is that done today ?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Also:-
Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed were together and sold everything

Where is that done today ?

Usually in cults that stretch Scriptures to suit their controlling spirits, prohibitions on ownership are applied, but this is not biblical. Paul met with Christians in privately owned houses.
Those with goods and resources to spare are free to distribute them to the needy if they choose, but there should be no coercion or compulsion.

 

[Dryhn]

Usually in cults that stretch Scriptures to suit their controlling spirits, prohibitions on ownership are applied, but this is not biblical. Paul met with Christians in privately owned houses.
Those with goods and resources to spare are free to distribute them to the needy if they choose, but there should be no coercion or compulsion.

It applied then & not today
Another is how the HS was received then, at that time occasionally the Apostles had to lay hands and pray
Acts 8:-
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Today the HS is received by trusting & believing only the Gospel, hands & pray is never required today
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30

 

[rwb]

Also:-
Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed were together and sold everything

Where is that done today ?

What is your point? The Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ has been building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as it is being preached unto all the nations of the world. Where does Scripture tell us that this supernatural conversion of 3-4 thousand souls through one sermon preached in the power of the Holy Spirit must be repeated? In the beginning it was necessary through supernatural signs and wonders to prove the Gospel of the Kingdom of God was of God, and even at the very beginning it was effective through the power of the Spirit, to save whosoever believed.

 

[Dryhn]

What is your point? The Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ has been building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as it is being preached unto all the nations of the world. Where does Scripture tell us that this supernatural conversion of 3-4 thousand souls through one sermon preached in the power of the Holy Spirit must be repeated? In the beginning it was necessary through supernatural signs and wonders to prove the Gospel of the Kingdom of God was of God, and even at the very beginning it was effective through the power of the Spirit, to save whosoever believed.

The point is the Gospel that you are justified, saved & HS sealed by is taught by Paul
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
Christ selected & taught Paul Acts 9:15, Gal 1:11-12
Christ sent Paul to teach the 12 what he was teaching Gal 2:2
If it was the same then there was no need to send Paul to the 12
Plus ALL the apostles agreed that Paul was to teach a different audience than they Gal 2:7-9

 

[rwb]

The point is the Gospel that you are justified, saved & HS sealed by is taught by Paul
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
Christ selected & taught Paul Acts 9:15, Gal 1:11-12
Christ sent Paul to teach the 12 what he was teaching Gal 2:2
If it was the same then there was no need to send Paul to the 12
Plus ALL the apostles agreed that Paul was to teach a different audience than they Gal 2:7-9

Yes, Paul was sent by God to be a preacher to the Gentiles. Preaching to a different audience doesn't mean he preached another Gospel or something different. All the Apostles preached/taught the same Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ that Christ commissioned them to preach unto all the world before leaving the earth. The Great Commission is the same for the twelve, and for Paul, and whosoever is called by God to preach the Gospel.

Mark 16:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[Dryhn]

Yes, Paul was sent by God to be a preacher to the Gentiles. Preaching to a different audience doesn't mean he preached another Gospel or something different. All the Apostles preached/taught the same Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ that Christ commissioned them to preach unto all the world before leaving the earth. The Great Commission is the same for the twelve, and for Paul, and whosoever is called by God to preach the Gospel.

Mark 16:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

In that case Mark 16:18 applies today too, can you do that ? :)

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[rwb]

In that case Mark 16:18 applies today too, can you do that ? :)

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

To understand Christ, one must first understand these signs point to supernatural fulfillment by the power of the Holy Spirit through the name of Christ. Signs are gifts through the Holy Spirit that Christ gave to the church "bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with diverse miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to His own will." These supernatural signs are gifts of the Holy Spirit according to the will of God.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mr 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.