One Baptism

[marksman]

Hi marksman,

I understand baptidzo to mean "immerse", but is not limited to water, and can also mean to overwhelm.

Much love!

The rendering in the Greek which means to overwhelm is in relation to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[charity]

The Matthew reference has the same Greek word which means fully wet.

The Acts verse again means fully wet.

THe corinthian verse has nothing at all to do with New Testament baptism.

Hello @marksman,

The reason I referred you to those references was to show that the word is also applied in situations where water is not in evidence.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Truther]

(Ephesians 4:1-6)

'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
.. beseech you
.... that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
...... With all lowliness and meekness,
........ with longsuffering,
.......... forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep
.. the unity of the Spirit
.... in the bond of peace.
There is
.. one body, and
.... one Spirit, even as ye are called in
...... one hope of your calling;
........ One Lord,
.......... one faith,
............ one baptism,
.............. One God and Father of all,
Who is above all,
.. and through all,
.... and in you all.'

Praise God!

* These instructions were given following the revelation of The Mystery, given by God to Paul, concerning the church which is His Body,' the fullness of Him that filleth all in all' (Ephesians 1:22-23): Of which Paul was made Steward.

* The One Baptism is believers baptism, which is, like the calling to which it belongs, of the Spirit: in which the flesh has no part. It bears no resemblance to the baptism of repentance of John the Baptist, or to the baptisms which followed, for it is entirely of the Spirit.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

....debunking Acts2:38

 

[Truther]

Water baptism is already in God's word, so I cannot add to what is already there. But there are those trying to invent and come up with ways to get water baptism out of God's word as in John 3:5.

I can’t imagine taking up arms against Acts 2:38.
Crazy, Ernest t, crazy Christians

 

[Truther]

<<Because all Christians {allegedly GE] since apostolic times have practiced Christian {water GE] baptism, any group claiming that it is not necessary for a believer is borderline heretical.>>

Spot on! Precise! Halleluiah! I am a heretical believer! I'm recognised a Christian at last! Much obliged, thank you....
However, you still owe me ... one thing ... that SCRIPTURE for claiming water-<<baptism which is a COMMANDMENT of Christ>>?

I would not call anti baptism Christians heretical, maybe crazy, but not heretical.

Rejecting remission of sins is crazy

 

[Truther]

The word baptizo literally means an immersion, an overwhelming and it was an immersion in water is what the baptism of the great commission is as seen with Phillip water baptizing the eunuch. Men can obey the command to be water baptism. No one was ever commanded in the NT to be "spirit baptized".

I think I figured it out. Anti baptism folks are afraid of water and never learned to swim.

 

[Truther]

--Romans 1:16 the salvation of the gospel was to first go to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

--in Acts 10 we have the saving gospel going to the Gentile and we have the first Gentile converts. Acts 11:15 Peter said Jew and Gentiles are saved in a like manner way and the like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved is by water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins Jews in Acts 2:38 and Gentiles in Acts 10:47-48.

---Acts 10:47-48 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Since God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves, then "any man" that tired to stop the Gentiles from being water baptized would have been attempting to thwart God's will in salvation going to the Gentiles. The simple fact they were commanded to be baptized makes water baptism essential if for no other reason.

--We have Peter here, as Phillip in Acts 8, carrying out the great commission in going, teaching and WATER baptizing. In both cases we have water baptizing taking place and you can deny the facts all you care to but the facts remain.

Actually, at Pentecost, the 3000 were not yet Spirit filled, but added to the Church by water baptism alone.
Interesting fact.
Meaning, those not baptized are not part of the Church

 

[Truther]

"In the name of" means by the authority therefore when one is water baptized he is being baptized by the authority of Christ.

If the name of Jesus is not spoken at the point of baptism then all God has to remit sins is the sound,”splash”.

Likewise, “Splash” does not remit sins, nor does it heal or cast out devils.

 

[Marymog]

Then my dear friend you are wrong!!

I just posted in another thread how on movies and shows on TV we see Priests praying with unsaved people , on deathbeds , in hospitals , and on the battle fields , and assuring them that if they turn to God then He will receive them and give them peace. Are they lying then?

God is greater than water ...which is just a symbol.

Hi Helen.

I don't think @Philip James or any Christian would deny that God is greater than water. The questions are why did God initiate the use of water in baptism and must we obey him when he instructs us to do something?

Why did God have Moses raise his staff and stretch out his hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground? And when his arms grew tired he had help holding them up? Or make a snake and put it up on a pole? Was it necessary that Moses did what God told him to do? Was it necessary that his arms be held up? After all a snake on a pole, holding up your arms until your enemy is defeated and raising a staff is just symbolic....Isn't it? Did Moses have the option of telling Him "I don't need those symbols or symbolic gestures to accomplish what you told me to do God"?

Why does Scripture instruct laying on of hands for healing? It even says not to lay hands upon anyone too hastily! If it isn't necessary that we did what God told us to do then why instruct us to lay hands on OR not to lay hands on? Do we have the option of telling Him we don't need to do this symbolic thing with our hands?

Why does Scripture say declare with your mouth and you will be saved? After all wouldn't declaring with your mouth just be public profession of your belief in Him? Why do it? Do we have the option of telling Him we don't need to confess with our mouth?

At the Last Supper Jesus said "do this in remembrance of me". What happens if we don't do what Jesus tells us to do? I mean, after all, eating a piece of bread and drinking some wine is just symbolic.....Isn't it? Do we have the option of participating in that symbolic practice?

If you believe that water baptism is an option, just a symbol, then you must surely believe that those things mentioned above are options/symbols also.

Your example of praying with unsaved people, people on deathbeds in hospitals and on the battle fields, assuring them that if they turn to God then He will receive them and give them peace is the perfect example of being saved by grace thru faith. It is what happened to the thief on the cross. He didn't have the opportunity to participate in water baptism or laying on of hands or the bread/wine communion with his fellow Christians. Those that have the opportunity to participate in those things should otherwise they are not doing what He told us to do.

When we do what He tells us to do it is NOT a symbolic act. It is and act of obedience and faith which is what saves us.

I see that @Pisteuo and @marks liked your post. Hopefully they don't deny the symbolic laying on of hands and communion ALSO? After all if your going to deny the necessity of ONE "symbolic" practice written of in Scripture then why not deny all of them? What's the consequence?

I hope that you will reconsider your position. After all, even the angels raised their hands to heaven (Rev. 10:5). But I am sure it wasn't necessary for them to do that....just a symbolic action.

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

Here is an apostolic community who taught differently from your "Trinitarian formula".

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

This was of course spoken by Peter on Pentecost.

Later, at the Beautiful Gate, Peter was guilty of an even greater ommission, failing to even mention baptism.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

You add many requirements where God has but one.

Much love!

Hi marks,

If there is only ONE requirement why didn't Scripture just state that ONE requirement? That would be a pretty short bible...wouldn't it?

Are you saying that you don't believe that there are other requirements?

Peter did not omit baptism in 1 Peter 3:21 soooo how can you say he is guilty of omission?

Respectfully, Mary

 

[charity]

[Reply #183 - * Re: Chris' post:- #162]

....debunking Acts 2:38

------------------------------------------

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
(Act 2:38)

Hello @Truther,

Looking up what is meant by 'debunk'. I see that it means:- 'to show that something is less important, less good, or less true than it has been made to appear'. Why would I try to 'debunk' a portion of God's Word? For it is all Truth.

* However, though I believe that all Scripture is for us, I believe also that not all is about us. So, is that the case in regard to Acts 2:38? Are the words of Peter in Acts 2:38, spoken to the Church which is the Body of Christ? Who was Peter addressing in Acts 2:38? Acts 2:36 tells us that Peter spoke to, 'all the house of Israel' :-

'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.'
(Acts 2:36)

* Acts 2:38 was spoken in reply to a question in Acts 2:37:-

'Now when they heard this,
they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
(Acts 2:37)

* By comparison, Ephesians 4:1-6 that I quoted in #162 (that you responded to), was written to:-

'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus,
and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ... '
(Ephesians 1:1)

* The former was spoken to Israel as a nation, who needed to come to repentance first, in order for the times of refreshing to come from the presence of the Lord, and Christ to return (Acts 3:19-20). The latter was spoken by Paul, after Israel was finally laid aside in unbelief, and the revelation of God given to Paul, concerning the Church which is His Body, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.' made known. This was addressed to the 'Saints' and 'Faithful': which are quite a different company.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Truther]

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
(Act 2:38)

Hello @Truther,

Looking up what is meant by 'debunk'. I see that it means:- 'to show that something is less important, less good, or less true than it has been made to appear'. Why would I try to 'debunk' a portion of God's Word? For it is all Truth.

* However, though I believe that all Scripture is for us, I believe also that not all is about us. So, is that the case in regard to Acts 2:38? Are the words of Peter in Acts 2:38, spoken to the Church which is the Body of Christ? Who was Peter addressing in Acts 2:38? Acts 2:36 tells us that Peter spoke to, 'all the house of Israel' :-

'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.'
(Acts 2:36)

* Acts 2:38 was spoken in reply to a question in Acts 2:37:-

'Now when they heard this,
they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
(Acts 2:37)

* By comparison, Ephesians 4:1-6 that I quoted in #162 (that you responded to), was written to:-

'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus,
and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ... '
(Ephesians 1:1)

* The former was spoken to Israel as a nation, who needed to come to repentance in order for the times of refreshing to come from the presence of the Lord, and Christ to return (Acts 3:19-20). The latter was spoken by Paul, after Israel was finally laid aside in unbelief, and the revelation of God given to Paul, concerning the Church which is His Body, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.' made known. This was addressed to the 'Saints' and 'Faithful': which are quite a different company.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Peter was preaching to unbaptized sinners in Acts 2:38.

He preached the very first message of salvation to the future possible saint.

He told them how to find remission of sins per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, etc.

These 3000 folks were added to the church by being water baptized, not by Spirit baptism....


41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I would not call anti baptism Christians heretical, maybe crazy, but not heretical.

Rejecting remission of sins is crazy

Do you esteem the Baptism of Christ "NOT WITH WATER" "in the NAME of the Father Son and Holy Spirit", not good enough for remission of sins?

Now that's <crazy> if ever there was.

Nevertheless, Gospel fact is forgiveness of sins had been availed once for all, not by anything which happened to or with or in us, but solely by what happened to, with, in and through the GOD of forgiveness through the DEATH of the GOD of forgiveness in the Son of the GOD of forgiveness in our place.

 

[marksman]

Hello @marksman,

The reason I referred you to those references was to show that the word is also applied in situations where water is not in evidence.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

If the original Greek means fully wet, how do you get fully wet if water is not in evidence?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Peter was preaching to unbaptized sinners in Acts 2:38.

He preached the very first message of salvation to the future possible saint.

He told them how to find remission of sins per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, etc.

These 3000 folks were added to the church by being water baptized, not by Spirit baptism....


41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Come, here's a secret for you, a great treasure that will bring you peace for the rest of your Christian life. It is the definition - the Scripture definition, prescription and unmitigated Divine requirement - of and for <<how to find remission of sins>>, of how to find one's soul added to the number of the redeemed. The definition and condition is, they who "received God's Word were baptised".

Can you say it simpler or clearer? Man, that is the sum-total of being SAVED forever by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ: To "receive God's Word", is to be, "baptised", is, to "find remission of sin"! Peter's preaching to <unbaptized> sinners in Acts 2:38, was, their baptism in the Name of God, was their baptism with the Holy Spirit, and was their forgiveness of sins.

And that is why NO ONE EVER AFTER Jesus' apostles can or may take the apostles' baptism over or further or add to it water or anything, or make anyone or any church its mediator or administer. Baptism in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit is the PREROGATIVE of the Trinity in the Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Let man not make himself God!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If the original Greek means fully wet, how do you get fully wet if water is not in evidence?

What is this you're talking about? The <original Greek meaning> of WHAT do you say, <means wet>??? Chancer!

 

[charity]

If the original Greek means fully wet, how do you get fully wet if water is not in evidence?

Hello @marksman,

When it is used figuratively, as in 1 Corinthians 10:2 for example, the element being, 'the cloud and the sea', and the object being identification with the former experiences of Moses and the children of Israel, in the crossing of the Jordan river, which took place, 'dryshod', the water having been parted for them.

* See also Luke 12:50, where the Lord Jesus refers to the baptism of suffering He was going to have to endure. No water there either.

The other elements associated with baptism being, water (as in Matthew 3:11), the Holy Spirit, ie., power from on high (as referred to in Matthew 3:11) and the name of the Lord (as in Acts 10:48).

The word baptize also has the meaning - 'to overwhelm' - to come into full union with whoever or whatever is being baptised into, or identified with.

The baptism of John used the element of water, and identified the participant with the word John had preached, which was repentance, and the remission of sins, in the light of the fact that the Kingdom, which is of God, was nigh.

The moment Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ enters, by the entry of God's Word, the believer is identified with Christ, in His death and resurrection, he becomes one with Him, by the operation of the Holy Spirit. He is thereby baptised into Him without the element of water.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Truther]

Come, here's a secret for you, a great treasure that will bring you peace for the rest of your Christian life. It is the definition - the Scripture definition, prescription and unmitigated Divine requirement - of and for <<how to find remission of sins>>, of how to find one's soul added to the number of the redeemed. The definition and condition is, they who "received God's Word were baptised".

Can you say it simpler or clearer? Man, that is the sum-total of being SAVED forever by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ: To "receive God's Word", is to be, "baptised", is, to "find remission of sin"! Peter's preaching to <unbaptized> sinners in Acts 2:38, was, their baptism in the Name of God, was their baptism with the Holy Spirit, and was their forgiveness of sins.

And that is why NO ONE EVER AFTER Jesus' apostles can or may take the apostles' baptism over or further or add to it water or anything, or make anyone or any church its mediator or administer. Baptism in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit is the PREROGATIVE of the Trinity in the Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Let man not make himself God!

Listening to preaching remits sins.
Who made that up?

 

[Truther]

Do you esteem the Baptism of Christ "NOT WITH WATER" "in the NAME of the Father Son and Holy Spirit", not good enough for remission of sins?

Now that's <crazy> if ever there was.

Nevertheless, Gospel fact is forgiveness of sins had been availed once for all, not by anything which happened to or with or in us, but solely by what happened to, with, in and through the GOD of forgiveness through the DEATH of the GOD of forgiveness in the Son of the GOD of forgiveness in our place.

The first actual Church began at Acts 2.
They were COMMANDED to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins(verse 38).

Question...who changed it?

 

[Waiting on him]

Listening to preaching remits sins.
Who made that up?

God.