One Baptism

[Philip James]

Another fallacy. God taught it in the New Testament. This predates your church. And supercedes your authority.

Philip, if we can't simply accept the simple Words from God in the Bible, then what? Why do you need these false appeals?

Much love!

Marks,

First, thank you for the pleasant dialouge. And I think we have come to the crux of our difference here.

The Church had been bapising people since before 1 letter of the NT was penned.

She has documented evidence that what she says of baptism now, is what she has said from the beginning.

For 2000 years she has understood that to be born again (by water and Spirit) one must receive the sacrament of baptism. And that this is specifically what Jesus is referring to when HE says we must be born of water and Spirit.
All the apostolic churhes teach this. All the bishops in communion with Alexandria. The bishops in communion with Constantinople. The bishops in communion with Rome.
Not one 2000 year old Christian community teach otherwise.

Why do you think your interpretation of our scriptures should be anything else but the teaching of men?

Peace!

 

[Philip James]

that is man made doctrine not Bible

That is the doctrine of the Church since the very beginning.
No one may receive the Eucharist unless they have been first baptised.

To argue otherwise in the face of all historical evidince is absurd.

Peace

 

[Ezra]

That is the doctrine of the Church since the very beginning.
No one may receive the Eucharist unless they have been first baptised.

To argue otherwise in the face of all historical evidince is absurd.

Peace

of what Church and where does that say that exact wording in the Bible. yes a person must be saved to take communion. baptism follows salvation. Jesus said as of as you do this do it in remembrance of me .communion should be a very sacred time . in fact its my understanding our church will be having a communion service . this is being done after our building was destroyed by fire week ago tonight . but there will be no questions have you been baptized . strong emphasis on must be saved. w also should be in the right spirit when taking it . i await scriptures that back up your words . some get saved not having the chance to be baptized. your placing more emphasis on baptism than salvation

 

[Philip James]

of what Church and where does that say that exact wording in the Bible.

Of THE Church, founded by Christ through His apostles.

and here:

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord

Peace!

 

[Ezra]

Of THE Church, founded by Christ through His apostles.

and here:

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord

Peace!

do you not realize in a unworthy manner has nothing to do with baptism { might iadd none of us are worthy } once again your way off.

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself, if he does not judge the body rightly."
The context of the verses seems to begin around verse 16 of 1 Cor. 11. Paul mentions people who are contentious and that there were divisions among them (v. 18). He also mentions people getting drunk in v. 21. Paul then says in verse 22, "Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you."

It is after this that Paul speaks more directly about communion and how it represents the Body and Blood of Christ. In verse 26 he says, "as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes." Paul relates the communion to the sacrifice of Christ and then says to examine one's self in verse 28. It seems most probable that Paul is telling people to examine their motives, make sure there is no dissension with other believers, to take the supper solemnly, and they were to rightly understand that it represents the sacrifice of Christ.

Finally, many Christians do not feel worthy of taking communion because of their sin. But the Christian should realize that communion is for sinners, for Christians who are sinners. It is not that communion makes sinning okay. The Christian should always war against his sin, but Christians should not withhold themselves from the table if they are trying to repent of their sins and are struggling to gain victory but have not yet attained it. It is the struggle against sin that is an admission that we must depend upon Christ and his grace. In our struggle, we judge sin to be sin and war against it. It is precisely this struggle that is a vindication of our position with Christ and a manifestation of our need for communion as an act of dependence upon His work and grace.

 

[bbyrd009]

That is the doctrine of the Church since the very beginning.
No one may receive the Eucharist unless they have been first baptised.

To argue otherwise in the face of all historical evidince is absurd.

Peace

how is it you did not know I was not talking about bread?

is "the Church" an Institution (idol) in your mind, pj?
Hell man, you have even made Communion an Institution(idol), huh?
then no offense but may i ask why you are here?
i could certainly suggest Catholic sites where you would not be moving boundary stones and thus not be subjecting yourself to inevitable Christian criticism?

 

[bbyrd009]

of what Church and where does that say that exact wording in the Bible. yes a person must be saved to take communion. baptism follows salvation. Jesus said as of as you do this do it in remembrance of me .communion should be a very sacred time . in fact its my understanding our church will be having a communion service . this is being done after our building was destroyed by fire week ago tonight . but there will be no questions have you been baptized . strong emphasis on must be saved. w also should be in the right spirit when taking it . i await scriptures that back up your words . some get saved not having the chance to be baptized. your placing more emphasis on baptism than salvation

and may i suggest that we come to accept a definition of a term, and then often blindly hold to that definition even when it obviously no longer serves us. Me too. It is only natural yeh?

Imo question every definition you hold, and never accept that you have a complete definition for a term, nor that anyone else on the planet defines that term the same exact way you do. We are all speaking in tongues to each other imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Of THE Church, founded by Christ through His apostles.

and here:

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord

Peace!

Colossians 2:10 Lexicon: and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Colossians 2:15 Lexicon: When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
is this what you seek, pj? Bc i'm tryna not be that guy ok, but i can be that guy if you insist. If you are hear to learn about Christ and Christianity--begin learning i mean--then i am all, 100%, for you ok; but if you are here to insist on Catholicism--which btw i still respect as currently necessary--then may i suggest that you tread carefully?

Bc you are sinning here, every time you post, ok? Now i am surely a more accomplished sinner than you ok, dont get me wrong, but pls remember that you are essentially a guest on a Christian, not a Catholic site. You are a Stranger in a Strange Land. You are being tolerated, and will not be assimilated,
1 Corinthians 15:24 Lexicon: then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
at least until you have changed your mind, ok?
Catholicism is a fine place to start imo, and to "be from," and surely even to finish at if you so desire; do you need directions?

Because i certainly mean no offense, ok, but the term that best describes you literally right now is lost.

i love Catholics, m. james, even Roman ones; why not go back to the correct side of the Boundary Stone and be the best Catholic you know how to be?
Proverbs 23:10 Lexicon: Do not move the ancient boundary Or go into the fields of the fatherless,
(how apropos is "fatherless" there lol, zing huh)

once again your way off.

^
which does not make him wrong, imo anyway, at least until he travels to a foreign land and starts telling them how their cows should eat cabbage? In many enlightened countries this man would be imprisoned, if he were so lucky as to not be killed, a distinct possibility, recently in our um missionary news i think?

 

[Ezra]

and may i suggest that we come to accept a definition of a term, and then often blindly hold to that definition even when it obviously no longer serves us. Me too. It is only natural yeh?

as in what definition of a term,

 

[bbyrd009]

as in what definition of a term,

man, Ezra, i might have to refresh on which thread i'm in, but i meant what i said; every single definition that you "established" via trusting someone else's definition as "truth" bc they were charismatic and maybe even likely as conscientious as they knew how to be, for every single term that you accepted a definition of. Now obv we are (i think) on terms like "baptism, communion, salvation" right, but even "tree" Ezra, "tree" means something quite diff to you than me, and to you v one of your grandkids, and look here i can even show you pitchers and you can label them without my help i bet,

 

[Philip James]

It seems most probable that Paul is telling people to examine their motives,

Thats a pretty good post Ezra,

Paul is indeed telling us to examine our hearts, to ensure that we are worthy to approach our King.

Finally, many Christians do not feel worthy of taking communion because of their sin. But the Christian should realize that communion is for sinners, for Christians who are sinners.

Indeed, and for those who recognize their unworthiness, and ask the Lord for mercy and healing, HE will indeed cleanse them and empower them to boldly approach and receive Him.

Now if we who have been born again must carefully examine ourselves and submit to Christ to have ourselves purified, so that we may come forward, a spotless bride, to be united with our Most Holy Husband,
What then of one who is still dead in their sins, one that has not received the living water of new birth... Should they be found at the feast without their wedding garment...

He said to him, 'My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?' But he was reduced to silence.

Then the king said to his attendants, 'Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'



Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

how is it you did not know I was not talking about bread?

is "the Church" an Institution (idol) in your mind, pj?
Hell man, you have even made Communion an Institution(idol), huh?
then no offense but may i ask why you are here?
i could certainly suggest Catholic sites where you would not be moving boundary stones and thus not be subjecting yourself to inevitable Christian criticism?

Beloved,
I have missed you. I trust that you have been well and continue to pray that our Father blesses you abundently.

The Church is no man made instituton. It was founded and built by Christ, ever guided and guarded and corrected by the Holy Spirit.

She is His bride, and He and she are one.

In Christ there are no boundry stones, for we are one in Him. He has reconciled the world to Himself, removing all barriers between us.

As for my reason for being here, have you forgotten? I am charged with handing out invitations:

Then he said to his servants, 'The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come.

Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.'

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

In many enlightened countries this man would be imprisoned, if he were so lucky as to not be killed, a distinct possibility, recently in our um missionary news i think?

Yes, many of my brothers and sisters have endured and are enduring such for the Glory of Jesus Christ. They will have their reward.

May God grant us the Grace to endure the trial, that we may be worthy to stand with them in the presence of our Glorious King, Jesus Christ.

Peace!

 

[Ezra]

Indeed, and for those who recognize their unworthiness, and ask the Lord for mercy and healing, HE will indeed cleanse them and empower them to boldly approach and receive Him.

Now if we who have been born again must carefully examine ourselves and submit to Christ to have ourselves purified, so that we may come forward, a spotless bride, to be united with our Most Holy Husband,
What then of one who is still dead in their sins, one that has not received the living water of new birth... Should they be found at the feast without their wedding garment...

He said to him, 'My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?' But he was reduced to silence.

Then the king said to his attendants, 'Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'

this is most certainly bible nothing with man w/o baptism .the most important baptism is of the spirit .the new birth

 

[bbyrd009]

Now if we who have been born again

if I testify of myself, my testimony is invalid
commending themselves to each other
may not be in drb anymore, dunno
ok bye bro

 

[Philip James]

if I testify of myself, my testimony is invalid
commending themselves to each other
may not be in drb anymore, dunno
ok bye bro

Happily, i do not testify of myself, but of Him who has saved us by His Blood;

Who (indeed) is the victor over the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is the one who came through water and blood, Jesus Christ, not by water alone, but by water and blood. The Spirit is the one that testifies, and the Spirit is truth.

So there are three that testify,

the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

Peace be with you!

Jesus Christ reigns!
Alleluia!

 

[bbyrd009]

happily i do not testify of myself

Now if we who have been born again

moren one def of happy i guess bro
ok peace love and butterflies to you too k

 

[Marymog]

wrong when we get saved we are baptized into the Body by his spirit . water baptism does not do that

You should take the time to read Scripture; Matthew 3:11 and 16, John 3:5, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:38, Acts 19 etc

 

[marks]

For 2000 years she has understood

Appeal to authority of a "she"? Who is this "She"?

 

[Marymog]

Hi marks,
No, it teaches that they (water and Spirit) baptize you as one.

Its like a peanut butter jelly sandwich. Its just one sandwich.

And with np diseespect to @Marymog ,

This IS the one baptism. It is by the power of the holy spirit that the sacramant actually conveys what thw outward sign also signifies.

It is thus that we are truly buried with Christ and rise with Him to new life on Him.

It is thus that we are born again and become children of God, members of His body, the Church.

Such we have always taught, believed , and Lived! For 2000 years as St Cyril shows.

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

Pax!

Thank you Philip.

No disrespect taken. Your PB&J reference is good. I even said They are one in the same. Just like God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. You can't have one without the other.

Sooooo I think we are agreeing with each other just using different words/analogies.

Mary