One Creed to live by and die for...

[BreadOfLife]

Honestly, do you believe these two verses prove the Holy Spirit is a separate person of the Godhead? Be honest now!

As sure as YOU believes that reference to "Him" and "He" do NOT refer to a Person . . .

 

[face2face]

I didn’t think you’d be able to address the fact that BOTH Jesus (Rev. 22:12) and the Father (Re. 1:8) uttered the SAME thing in Revelation:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega"

EPIC FAIL . . .

You're a strange person BreadOfLife. I mean, you like to increase the size of your text and make it bold, underline words as though you want them to mean something, which it's clear they do not. I'm wondering why you hold onto these man-made teachings as aggressively as you do. Be interested to know your past and how you came to these false ideas. I'm sure there is a story lurking in the background which drives this aggressive behavior. Read & Study John 17 - here you will find your answer to why Jesus can speak on behalf of God, as God but it doesn't make him God. It's actually has to do with the purpose he has with all His Children, Jesus was the firstfruits of them that slept.
Enjoy
F2F

 

[face2face]

As sure as YOU believes that reference to "Him" and "He" do NOT refer to a Person . . .

Everything in the Bible is personified.
"The wages of Sin is death"
Does this make sin a person?
Out of interest do you know why the writers used personification?
Wisdom in the Proverbs is another good example.
Do you know why?

 

[face2face]

@everyone else.

Jesus has "a beginning and a ending"
God has no beginning and no ending

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Not only does God alone foretell the future; @BreadOfLife as per Revelation 1:1, but He is the only One who starts and finishes anything in His Creation - that includes the Lord Jesus Christ.

What you would need to have in Revelation is a verse that states Jesus never really died! that he only pretended to suffer and he could have entered Heaven without his sacrifice and blood. If you can show me this I would gladly accept your beliefs.

F2F

 

[Behold]

Joh_17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (ESV)

And Jesus said....>" All that believe in me....I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never go to Hell (perish).


A.) Same "God'.

 

[face2face]

Peter absolutely referred to the Holy Spirit as GOD in Acts 5:3-4.

Anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come: Mat 12:32.
So who is the adversary in verse Acts 5:3?
This is a teaching moment for you Behold.
Explain in a few words the context of Acts 5, and how Matthew 12:32 relates to the satan (adversaries) in this chapter?
Why are these people adversaries?
Why does Jesus use the Holy Spirit and not God, or even himself in Matthew 12:32?
Be interested to see if you give this a go.
F2F

 

[face2face]

And Jesus said....>" All that believe in me....I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never go to Hell (perish).


A.) Same "God'.

That verse in John 17:3 is a tough one to overcome as the Apostles understanding of God and Jesus is very different to yours. That must be concerning for you.

 

[amigo de christo]

No - it's not that I'M right.
The Church, which taught me the truth about the nature of God is right.

And before you say it was the Bible that taught us that - the Canono of Scripture came out of the Church - not the other way around.
And look at what bad Bible comprehension has done for the likes of APAK and Wrangler and face2face . . .

Its dangerous men that tried to twist the scrips that did this . The bible actually says GOD IS HIS WORD
So they changed it to say and the word was a god . BUT THAT AINT what john wrote now was it .
HE said And the Word was God . Folks just twist stuff . As they do many other places in the scrips .

 

[Behold]

That verse in John 17:3 is a tough one to overcome as the Apostles understanding of God and Jesus is very different to yours. That must be concerning for you.

How is your time machine doing?
You know the one you just used to go back in time 2000 yrs and ask the apostles what they meant, regarding "Jesus" as "God".

Or. just do this.

Thomas said to Jesus....>"My Lord and my God".......and GOD didn't correct Thomas. As why would God correct the Truth?

He's not like you., face2face.
God does not correct the Truth.

This is also useful.

"Let US....make man....in OUR Image".

That is "us and out'. = 2.

Add the Holy Spirit, and you get "3" as one, who are "us, and our".


Also useful..

"God is A Spirit", (The Holy Spirit)

"Christ is THAT Spirit""

Its all the SAME, as ...."The Word WAS God", and that is the "us, and our"..... in Genesis 1.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're a strange person BreadOfLife. I mean, you like to increase the size of your text and make it bold, underline words as though you want them to mean something, which it's clear they do not. I'm wondering why you hold onto these man-made teachings as aggressively as you do. Be interested to know your past and how you came to these false ideas. I'm sure there is a story lurking in the background which drives this aggressive behavior. Read & Study John 17 - here you will find your answer to why Jesus can speak on behalf of God, as God but it doesn't make him God. It's actually has to do with the purpose he has with all His Children, Jesus was the firstfruits of them that slept.
Enjoy
F2F

I learned all pof my "ideas" from Christ's 2000 year-pld Church.
The SAME Church of the Aopstles and the one that I was Baptized into0 and have belonged to my whole life.

YOUR phoy doctrines are Post Reformation inventions . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Everything in the Bible is personified.
"The wages of Sin is death"
Does this make sin a person?
Out of interest do you know why the writers used personification?
Wisdom in the Proverbs is another good example.
Do you know why?

WRONG.
When is sin or "isdomevery referred to as "He" or "Him"?

Try again . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

@everyone else.

Jesus has "a beginning and a ending"
God has no beginning and no ending

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Not only does God alone foretell the future; @BreadOfLife as per Revelation 1:1, but He is the only One who starts and finishes anything in His Creation - that includes the Lord Jesus Christ.

What you would need to have in Revelation is a verse that states Jesus never really died! that he only pretended to suffer and he could have entered Heaven without his sacrifice and blood. If you can show me this I would gladly accept your beliefs.

F2F

You have NO grasp of Rev. 1:8 & Rev. 22:13.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega" doesn't mean that He has a beginning OR an end. It means that he is NOT bound by either - and exists OUT of time (2 Pet. 3:8).

God makes this statement in Rev. 1:8.
Jesus makes the SAME statement in Rev. 22:13.
WHY? Because they are GOD.

 

[face2face]

WRONG.
When is sin or "isdomevery referred to as "He" or "Him"?

Try again . . .

Okay so you dont understand personification.
Why is Wisdom referred to a she or a woman in the Proverbs?
I must say you inability to the enter the Word of God is rather telling Bread.
Also denying everything presented to you is a sign of one being unteachable.
F2F

 

[BreadOfLife]

Anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come: Mat 12:32.
So who is the adversary in verse Acts 5:3?
This is a teaching moment for you Behold.
Explain in a few words the context of Acts 5, and how Matthew 12:32 relates to the satan (adversaries) in this chapter?
Why are these people adversaries?
Why does Jesus use the Holy Spirit and not God, or even himself in Matthew 12:32?
Be interested to see if you give this a go.
F2F

You're missing the point.
The Holy spirit IS God. THAT'S the po[nt.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all of theor particular ROLES in our lives.
Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier.

When we sin against the Holy Spirit, we are refusing His sanctification. Sanctification is what makes us holy before God.
Without being sabctified - we cannot enter into Heaven.

 

[face2face]

You have NO grasp of Rev. 1:8 & Rev. 22:13.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega" doesn't mean that He has a beginning OR an end. It means that he is NOT bound by either - and exists OUT of time (2 Pet. 3:8).

God makes this statement in Rev. 1:8.
Jesus makes the SAME statement in Rev. 22:13.
WHY? Because they are GOD.

No Bread,
I've dealt with Revelation 1:1 & 1:8 so lets look at Rev 22:13. This is more for others benefit than yours.

Notice how God (Yahweh) manifests this same title at the beginning and at the end of the Revelation? It's fitting that He shows His Work of beginning and ending, which is consistent with all He does, both in Christ, and His Prophetical Revelations.

"I am Alpha and Omega' So Yahweh manifested through mighty ones, Jesus being the Mightiest of this creation who like all those he represents have a beginning and an end!

"The beginning and the end" & "The first and the last"

All of these titles do not apply or define God Himself, as having a beginning and an end, unlike the Lord Jesus Christ, He is outside of these titles - If Bread persists with this line of reasoning, they are in affect stating God is not the Almighty and that there is another God unknown to them, who did all these things.

The question they must answer is this - did Jesus have a beginning and an end?

If no, then Christ is not a savior and must be God
If yes, then Christ lived and died to cleanse them of their sins - but in no way can be God - Who has no beginning or end.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You're missing the point.
The Holy spirit IS God. THAT'S the po[nt.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all of theor particular ROLES in our lives.
Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier.

When we sin against the Holy Spirit, we are refusing His sanctification. Sanctification is what makes us holy before God.
Without being sabctified - we cannot enter into Heaven.

So you were unable to speak to Acts 5....interesting
Can you see your problem?

 

[APAK]

And Jesus said....>" All that believe in me....I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never go to Hell (perish).


A.) Same "God'.

Not at all Behold far from it. He is the Son of God only I'm afraid. I do not know how you can be so comfortable and confident in that simplistic answer by saying that the Father's Son is also God. Quite astonishing and incredible of a statement to make. It makes the following verses I've included below nonsense with that ridiculous answer.

And is that the level of understanding you have concerning John 10:28? Why not show all the words of the verse as the verse most surely connects to other verses. How about that..

John 10: 24 triggers the response (with a question that you should truly read Behold) and includes the part verse you quoted. You need to read the entire section of verses before and even after for understanding the context and what this verse really means. You cannot just pluck what you want out and say there it is, see...


Joh 10:24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Joh 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (ESV)

Now for support and wider context read in John 17....

(Joh 17:1) When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,
(Joh 17:2) since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. Refer to John 10:29
(Joh 17:3) And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
One MUST KNOW the ONE TRUE GOD first to have eternal life, and his Son...

(Joh 17:6) “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. refer to John 10:29
(Joh 17:7) Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. Refer to John 10:29

(Joh 17:8) For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
Jesus was born by the Father and send on his mission to save mankind from death...

(Joh 17:9) I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
(Joh 17:10) All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
(Joh 17:11) And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. Refer to John 10:29 -30

So do you think that the true God is still the Son (I guess you think along with the Father that is NOT scriptural at all) and not only the Father?!

 

[Wrangler]

They really have no answer even though they should be able to interpret the most clearest scripture like John 17:3 and John 4:23.

What’s so peculiar is how they treat their IDOL AS IF it is the central message of the Bible - even though it is completely absent from Scripture in any kind of actual, straight forward, direct expression.

Their go to is insist on tortured interpretations, like when some say a common expression (I be) it means they are claiming to be a deity but when others make this same common expression, that is NOT a claim of deity. Why all the convolution?

Why not come right out and say it? Truth is, the Bible is unique in all books ever written for being dramatically direct! God himself wrote in stone ‘you shall not X.’ From such heights to total reliance on mystical dualism. There is no shame for such shameful disregard of the Holy Scriptures.


I am Adonai your God, and there is no other.
Joel 2:27

 

[Behold]

Not at all Behold far from it. He is the Son of God only I'm afraid. I

You should only be afraid of posting Against the Truth, in public.
That deed is a spiritual seed that will return to its owner.

I dont have that issue, as Jesus who "Was God" in John 1, is "the Word became flesh"...Virgin born. = "God manifested in the Flesh".

So. You can spin your verses upside down, all you like, but when you read that Jesus "made the world".....John 1:10, and Colossians 1:16... you have to want to deny that truth, and that's not a good idea.

See, He who made the world, Jesus, in John 1:10, spoke the Word of Creation, and the world originally showed up.

Same "God".

"Jesus is the Word" in John 1.......that God "Spoke".... as Creation, by the Holy Spirit..

See those 3?

God, The Word, The Holy Spirit

 

[face2face]

we cannot enter into Heaven.

Heaven is not the reward of the saints, Bread.
"The meek shall inherent the earth"... the Kingdom is "of" Heaven, not "in" Heaven.
Your own thoughts again?