One God has spoken

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,344
17,180
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
So Pearl…are you going to be quiet as he commanded you? Oh wait, Pearl can’t hear you, she’s on a rooftop over there. :D
His post just made me laugh that there are still dinosaurs around today.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,001
4,801
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So Pearl…are you going to be quiet as he commanded you? Oh wait, Pearl can’t hear you, she’s on a rooftop over there. :D

Guess the “no longer male or female, slave or free” verse isnt plain enough to them

Appeal to Victimhood. This seems to be the new claim to righteousness.

I didn’t say to be quiet because of sexism but foolish talk. The point hinges on IS REALLY THE CASE (objective reality), not point of view.

An authoritative reference either says X or it doesn’t.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You only impress yourself. To us, it sounds like a gobbledygook word salad.
And I can’t find a single foolish thing Pearl has said.
 

Justbobg

Active Member
Oct 4, 2022
117
49
28
65
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You only impress yourself. To us, it sounds like a gobbledygook word salad.
And I can’t find a single foolish thing Pearl has said.
You ladies obviously do not believe the Bible , you made that statement yourself , deception is a terrible thing .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrangler

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,001
4,801
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You ladies obviously do not believe the Bible , you made that statement yourself , deception is a terrible thing .
An example I use often is what day Adam was made compared to what day Eve was made.

I think this rather mundane question mirrors the more provocative question of who God is and who God is not.

Most people recognize the day of Adam’s creation is explicit in Scripture. Therefore, it is not too controversial. Not so with Eve. People could speculate and come up with all kinds of theories, doctrines, etc. Most people recognize the day of Eve’s creation is not explicit.

There is a funny principle adopted by trinitarians, which rejects logic, specifically mutual exclusivity. Given, that Adam was created on Day 6 means he was not created on any other day.

Not so, they say regarding Scripture’s equally explicit pronouncement that Jesus is the son of YHWH. That’s not mutually exclusive, they say.
 

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I’ve struggled with that a bit over the years. I don’t think they are intentionally blind. I think they were born that way, just as I was, and…then satan manipulates them and manipulates the men who indoctrinated them. Its a hard thing to grapple with to wonder why He gives one man his sight and not another man, frees one man and leaves another a prisoner.
I 100% agree and the only sense I've ever been able to make of it, after years of pondering it and praying for clarity, is to take a very close look at Jesus' teaching of the Wheat and the Tares.

Really study it and think about it for a long time and your mind will be redirected to it every time you see Scripture that appears to say that there are some who are different from birth.

One of the crucially important things to notice about that teaching is that Jesus is asked afterward by His disciples to explain the teaching and what He says is mind blowing. Contrary to modern teaching, He does not say that it is a parable at all. He makes plain that it is a Truth - that the devil plants (generates) some people ... somehow ... and God plants the others.

There's no other way to take that but to accept that somehow there are people who are children of the devil. (Lots of references in the Bible about them by many names) Now, the take away for me has been to then ask "Can the Tares be saved or not?"

I am still wrestling with that question. It seems that they can IF they completely repent of their natural ways and cease all sin and commit themselves to God, BUT there seems to be some question as to whether or not they are capable of doing that. God says things like 'We are capable of love because He loved us first.' and 'Nobody can come to Me unless they are drawn.', etc.

I truly don't know.

Jesus even makes comments like 'To you it is given to know these things, but to them it is not given.' and 'If they were to hear and repent, I would then have to heal them and they would be saved.', etc.

It's really a perplexing concept to consider, but I am convinced there is something very literal to it.

Wheat and Tares teaching: Matthew 13:24-30; Matthew 13:36-40
 

Justbobg

Active Member
Oct 4, 2022
117
49
28
65
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I 100% agree and the only sense I've ever been able to make of it, after years of pondering it and praying for clarity, is to take a very close look at Jesus' teaching of the Wheat and the Tares.

Really study it and think about it for a long time and your mind will be redirected to it every time you see Scripture that appears to say that there are some who are different from birth.

One of the crucially important things to notice about that teaching is that Jesus is asked afterward by His disciples to explain the teaching and what He says is mind blowing. Contrary to modern teaching, He does not say that it is a parable at all. He makes plain that it is a Truth - that the devil plants (generates) some people ... somehow ... and God plants the others.

There's no other way to take that but to accept that somehow there are people who are children of the devil. (Lots of references in the Bible about them by many names) Now, the take away for me has been to then ask "Can the Tares be saved or not?"

I am still wrestling with that question. It seems that they can IF they completely repent of their natural ways and cease all sin and commit themselves to God, BUT there seems to be some question as to whether or not they are capable of doing that. God says things like 'We are capable of love because He loved us first.' and 'Nobody can come to Me unless they are drawn.', etc.

I truly don't know.

Jesus even makes comments like 'To you it is given to know these things, but to them it is not given.' and 'If they were to hear and repent, I would then have to heal them and they would be saved.', etc.

It's really a perplexing concept to consider, but I am convinced there is something very literal to it.

Wheat and Tares teaching: Matthew 13:24-30; Matthew 13:36-40
I have thought about this the wheat and tares . I’m not a master on the subject , but my inclination is God so loved the world , that’s tares too . So all can be saved , but it requires obedience, and some never will they rebel . Unbelief is disobedience, and it starts there .
 
  • Like
Reactions: GEN2REV and Pearl

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I have thought about this the wheat and tares . I’m not a master on the subject , but my inclination is God so loved the world , that’s tares too . So all can be saved , but it requires obedience, and some never will they rebel . Unbelief is disobedience, and it starts there .
The background to the parable of "the wheat and the weeds" is very interesting. The weeds (or tares) are believed to be "bearded darnel", a weed that is poisonous, but that resembles wheat in its early growing stages. Once the plants are established the difference becomes noticeable, but by then the root systems are so intertwined that to pull out the darnel would mean uprooting the wheat as well. This plant was called "wheat's evil twin" because a man could destroy his neighbor's crop by sowing the seeds of this noxious weed in the same field as his wheat crop. No one would notice until it was too late to do something about it. So, to save what there was of the wheat, the farmer would wait until the harvest time and gather the whole lot....separating the wheat from the weeds at that time.
This makes the parable very easy to understand because the devil is identified as the sower of the weeds. The field is the world, the wheat are the genuine Christians and the weeds are counterfeits....the reapers are angels.

By allowing both to grow together until the harvest, God gets to see which is which by the choices they make in life. When Jesus comes with his angels to judge mankind, he sends those reapers to gather the weeds first, and to dispose of them in the fire, then he gathers the wheat into his storehouse.

We all have the same opportunity to find God and serve him as a disciple of his son.....during our lifetime we will be making decisions about many things....whether we are spiritually minded and want to seek God.....or not. Some people just have a natural tendency to be spiritual, but the devil also has his ways of redirecting that to things which are spiritistic, which has nothing to do with God (just the opposite) and we can see a fascination with the supernatural with what people choose for their entertainment, or whether they will make a practice of doing things that bring them into contact with wicked spirits in a more direct way. (God's law to Israel warned about such practices. Deuteronomy 18:9-12) God called them an abomination.

The one thing we have to look for in a world full of counterfeits, is to observe carefully what kind of fruitage (traits) are produced in those who call themselves "Christians". For many it is simply a label, for others perhaps a duty, and for others a way of life to walk with God....someone with whom they have a close and personal relationship.

The one determining factor though, is something that Jesus made clear in John ch 6: 44, 65....he said...
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. . . . .
. . . .“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (ESV)


So, when all is said and done, no one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father....this way he has the wheat separated from the weeds before the harvest begins. By the time the reapers are on the job, under Christ's direction, they already know which is which.
But no one is condemned or chosen until they are of age to make choices about whether worship will be an important part of their life, and also whether they will be "drawn" to the truth by God.....or left in a deceived state by him.

Speaking under inspiration the apostle Paul wrote concerning the return of our Lord......
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

We are telling God something about ourselves every day......and he is seeking citizens for his incoming Kingdom. He will only choose those who have already proven themselves to be faithful followers of Christ.

We can hope to pass that final test of our "Christianity"....but we could well be deceived and allowed to stay that way because we love the lie and want to defend it. We will all know soon enough....
 
  • Like
Reactions: GEN2REV

Justbobg

Active Member
Oct 4, 2022
117
49
28
65
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The background to the parable of "the wheat and the weeds" is very interesting. The weeds (or tares) are believed to be "bearded darnel", a weed that is poisonous, but that resembles wheat in its early growing stages. Once the plants are established the difference becomes noticeable, but by then the root systems are so intertwined that to pull out the darnel would mean uprooting the wheat as well. This plant was called "wheat's evil twin" because a man could destroy his neighbor's crop by sowing the seeds of this noxious weed in the same field as his wheat crop. No one would notice until it was too late to do something about it. So, to save what there was of the wheat, the farmer would wait until the harvest time and gather the whole lot....separating the wheat from the weeds at that time.
This makes the parable very easy to understand because the devil is identified as the sower of the weeds. The field is the world, the wheat are the genuine Christians and the weeds are counterfeits....the reapers are angels.

By allowing both to grow together until the harvest, God gets to see which is which by the choices they make in life. When Jesus comes with his angels to judge mankind, he sends those reapers to gather the weeds first, and to dispose of them in the fire, then he gathers the wheat into his storehouse.

We all have the same opportunity to find God and serve him as a disciple of his son.....during our lifetime we will be making decisions about many things....whether we are spiritually minded and want to seek God.....or not. Some people just have a natural tendency to be spiritual, but the devil also has his ways of redirecting that to things which are spiritistic, which has nothing to do with God (just the opposite) and we can see a fascination with the supernatural with what people choose for their entertainment, or whether they will make a practice of doing things that bring them into contact with wicked spirits in a more direct way. (God's law to Israel warned about such practices. Deuteronomy 18:9-12) God called them an abomination.

The one thing we have to look for in a world full of counterfeits, is to observe carefully what kind of fruitage (traits) are produced in those who call themselves "Christians". For many it is simply a label, for others perhaps a duty, and for others a way of life to walk with God....someone with whom they have a close and personal relationship.

The one determining factor though, is something that Jesus made clear in John ch 6: 44, 65....he said...
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. . . . .
. . . .“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (ESV)


So, when all is said and done, no one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father....this way he has the wheat separated from the weeds before the harvest begins. By the time the reapers are on the job, under Christ's direction, they already know which is which.
But no one is condemned or chosen until they are of age to make choices about whether worship will be an important part of their life, and also whether they will be "drawn" to the truth by God.....or left in a deceived state by him.

Speaking under inspiration the apostle Paul wrote concerning the return of our Lord......
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

We are telling God something about ourselves every day......and he is seeking citizens for his incoming Kingdom. He will only choose those who have already proven themselves to be faithful followers of Christ.

We can hope to pass that final test of our "Christianity"....but we could well be deceived and allowed to stay that way because we love the lie and want to defend it. We will all know soon enough....
 

Justbobg

Active Member
Oct 4, 2022
117
49
28
65
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Interesting thoughts on the subject of wheat and tares .
Looking back over my journey as a Christian, I would testify that Jesus the author and finisher of my faith has enabled me to have faith enough to keep going , in difficult times able to believe a promise to overcome at the time .
This builds confidence and trust in God . It’s the word of God that is as stepping stones of faith . “ faith cometh by hearing by the word of God , but faith is given to us . I have experienced this many times . That’s why I keep going back to scriptures, it’s a treasure of faith and instructions, comfort and companionship, brings us closer to God . When things seem not so good , to the word we must go in prayer . God never fails this simple act . I like the writer in Lamentations , if not for the mercy of the Lord we would be consumed . But the Lord loves mercy over judgment, seek it and He loves to give it !
 

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting thoughts on the subject of wheat and tares .
Looking back over my journey as a Christian, I would testify that Jesus the author and finisher of my faith has enabled me to have faith enough to keep going , in difficult times able to believe a promise to overcome at the time .
This builds confidence and trust in God . It’s the word of God that is as stepping stones of faith . “ faith cometh by hearing by the word of God , but faith is given to us . I have experienced this many times . That’s why I keep going back to scriptures, it’s a treasure of faith and instructions, comfort and companionship, brings us closer to God . When things seem not so good , to the word we must go in prayer . God never fails this simple act . I like the writer in Lamentations , if not for the mercy of the Lord we would be consumed . But the Lord loves mercy over judgment, seek it and He loves to give it !
You are absolutely right that Faith is a gift. That is a very controversial, and threatening, fact for the status quo.

Churches, and all modern Christendom, need people to believe that it is simply something we choose on our own, whenever it suits us, but the Bible is very clear that is not the case.

God bless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stunnedbygrace

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Look at John 1:18 --- No man has ever seen God at anytime. Did people "see" Jesus? Yes they did, hence Jesus could not be God or the bible is false.
God is a Spirit, you silly goose. Err blue bird.

Nobody can see a Spirit.

But that Spirit indwelled Jesus from the moment of conception.

That's why Jesus said 'If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."
John 14:7
John 14:9

And the Bible is never false just because you take one verse out of context and claim it contradicts all of Scripture.

There are no contradictions in Scripture, only verses that appear to contradict until they are fully understood.
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,344
17,180
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Look at John 1:18 --- No man has ever seen God at anytime. Did people "see" Jesus? Yes they did, hence Jesus could not be God or the bible is false.
You can't understand this mystery with logic. Which group do you belong to that taught you that Jesus isn't God?

And what about:
John 1:1-3 & 14
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
Last edited:

Monte McGuire

New Member
Aug 6, 2022
15
16
3
57
Wichita, KS
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's why Jesus said 'If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."
John 14:7
John 14:9

Ah, but you dont understand the Trinity. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father, etc. If God gave us the bible and the Trinity is a major teaching, he failed to teach it.
Google "Trinity Shield"
 

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ah, but you dont understand the Trinity. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father, etc. If God gave us the bible and the Trinity is a major teaching, he failed to teach it.
Google "Trinity Shield"
There's nothing to understand about the trinity.

You give away so much with your words and punctuation.

You don't capitalize Bible, but you do capitalize trinity.

I know you already.
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,344
17,180
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Ah, but you dont understand the Trinity. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father, etc. If God gave us the bible and the Trinity is a major teaching, he failed to teach it.
Google "Trinity Shield"
I absolutely do understand that Jesus is not the Father.
God the Father.
God the Son.
God the Holy Spirit
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,344
17,180
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hmmm, I wonder why that matters? Attack the argument not the man....
I can't see how that is attacking you, I just asked which religious group you belong to.
But I have found that there a quite few people on here who refuse to disclose their religious persuasions. So one can only guess.