only a few...

[stephen64]

All those who read (besides your alters of course) will see clearly that Christians are to obey the 10 Commandments.

My oh my. You just cannot see it can you.
For sin/breaking the law shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

You don't focus on the law, you follow after the Holy Spirit, and the more you look to Christ and do that, the more the fruit of the Spirit will grow in your life:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law Gal5:22

The fruit of the Spirit is the embodiment of God's good and Holy laws/how God wants you to live, and does not contradict them

 

[GEN2REV]

You have already broken every conceivable Imperative by calling steven a liar and a hypocrite.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!..."
Matthew 23:13
"Ye are of your father the devil, ... he is a liar and the father of it."
John 8:44

you 'murdered' him

Drama, drama and distracting antics.

we are NOT under the 10 commandments, not up for debate

How convenient since you wouldn't even TOUCH my challenges to you to prove your position about it.

Allow my 'spokesman' to speak

That's who you wanna go with?

You don't do yourself any favors.

 

[stephen64]

Paul kept all 10 Commandments.

They are not difficult to keep.

The Holy Spirit assists us in obeying them and James 3:2 makes plain that slipping up while obeying them daily is intended to be part of Christian living. Slipping up is not the same as living daily in habitual sin like yourself and others who refuse to obey.Coming from a Pharisee yourself, it is absolutely hilarious that you would mention the exact tactic that you are employing with this post.

You live in disobedience to God's Word and teach others to do the same.
Matthew 5:19-20

You might enjoy this:
Let's Talk, CB!

BTW
The following took place in a church I went to to please a friend. Church day was Saturday:
I went to one church to please a friend. A woman was there immaculately dressed with her bible tucked underneath her arm each week. If the minister said something she much approved of she gave a hearty ''Amen'' to his words. She was most insistant you must obey the ten commandments, she was in earnest about this. In my youth, if I had of met her in the church I went to, I would have thought she was the most Godly of people, and I would have felt huge guilt that I could not live my christian life as she must be living hers.
Anyway, in the end I found out this woman was having multiple affairs while she stressed everyone must obey the ten commandments. I said to her one day. 'How can you have all these affairs, you are breaking the Ten Commandments continuously. She shrugged her shoulders and said: ''All sin is equal and no ones perfect''
That was not an isolated case, a woman who often led the service was in a sinful relationship outside of marriage. Others casually took the Lords name in vain, laughing as they did so, apparantly unaware they were breaking the ten commandments. Lying abounded. I tell you the truth, I have never, in five decades seen such flagrant sin as I saw in that church. And it was relentlessly preached ''you must obey the ten commandments.'

It is a shining example of the need to follow Paul's message:
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:6
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. Rom6:14

Because:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

 

[Robert Gwin]

So no one is presently saved, according to you Robert?
J.

That is a hard one to answer Joe, I gather you truly do not know what saved means, perhaps you can define it for me. The term saved means salvation. Salvation means receiving the gift that God gives; everlasting life. Do you agree with that definition, or do you have a different one?

 

[Johann]

That is a hard one to answer Joe, I gather you truly do not know what saved means, perhaps you can define it for me. The term saved means salvation. Salvation means receiving the gift that God gives; everlasting life. Do you agree with that definition, or do you have a different one?

Really not going to answer you since the JW' don't acknowledge that Christ Jesus is God, but "a god"
J.

 

[GEN2REV]

Obedience to the Commandments can ONLY lead to Righteousness. (Per Paul {God})
Romans 6:16

Works Salvation doesn't even apply; nor does Legalism nor does it bypass Grace to obey our Lord and Savior.

 

[stephen64]

Obedience to the Commandments can ONLY lead to Righteousness. (Per Paul {God})
Romans 6:16

Works Salvation doesn't even apply; nor does Legalism nor does it bypass Grace to obey our Lord and Savior.

You say you believe in grace. But to you, a person can only be righteous before God if they obey the law. Therefore you believe in righteousness of obeying the law

 

[bbyrd009]

i think that “the law is insufficient” does not mean that the law should not be obeyed, but that it is the least one might do; and the example given was of a 20mph “school zone.” The law says that i can do 20, right? But see, i might slow down to 10 if there are many little kids near the street, or i might even come to a full stop if some kindergartners spill out into the street, even if i would technically be within the law to run them over! “The law is insufficient”

 

[mailmandan]

You say you believe in grace. But to you, a person can only be righteous before God if they obey the law. Therefore you believe in righteousness of obeying the law

Amen!

I've noticed that works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works, in contradiction with Scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

In regards to Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense - "servants of sin unto death," or "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being servants of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become servants of righteousness."

*Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

*Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[GEN2REV]

i think that “the law is insufficient” does not mean that the law should not be obeyed, but that it is the least one might do; and the example given was of a 20mph “school zone.” The law says that i can do 20, right? But see, i might slow down to 10 if there are many little kids near the street, or i might even come to a full stop if some kindergartners spill out into the street, even if i would technically be within the law to run them over! “The law is insufficient”

The only problem with this analogy is that obeying the 10 Commandments is not the least that Christians do today; it is among the things they do not dare do because of the widespread brainwashing that declares 'if you obey God's Commandments, you will not be right with God.'

What a NUTTY proposition; yet it is taught from the vast majority of pulpits around the world.

 

[bbyrd009]

The only problem with this analogy is that obeying the 10 Commandments is not the least that Christians do today

wadr i dont see how “their” actions affect the analogy at all

yet it is taught from the vast majority of pulpits around the world

hmm, you think? ive never heard that from a pulpit tbh

 

[Behold]

The only problem with this analogy is that obeying the 10 Commandments is not the least that Christians do today; it is among the things they do not dare do

The 10 commandment are a lifestyle boundary.
Break them, and you suffer.
Keep them, and you dont commit what is going to harm your life.

So, the commandments are good, if used correctly.

But they can be TAUGHT as HERESY, and that is the prob.

A HERETIC, deceived by a CULT, will tell you that "keeping commandments" is how you save yourself.
Whereas GOD says....>"Jesus on the CROSS is how and why i accept you, and for NO OTHER REASON".

The deceived, cannot SEE THIS that i just wrote....... they are mind blinded by THE Devil.

2 Corinthians 4:4.

See, its the DEVIL's Gospel, that is "keep this, do that, and dont do that"..........as that is the Gospel of WORKS, and that is NOT The "Gospel of the Grace of God".

 

[stephen64]

I sincerely do not understand some peoples fixation with the words ''ten commandments''

The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart under the new covenant, it is in your dna so to speak. It is in your most inward parts. You in your mind must know what has been placed in your mind and in your heart you want to follow it, because that is where it has been put.
It is not an external law anymore that you have to read up on, it is within you! It is not a law written in ink anymore for the believer but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3)
Yes, the law can be expounded upon as Christ did, but the nuts and bolts of it are within you. Anyone who still has an external law, has major problems with their faith, to put it mildly.
You will not find the phrase ''you must obey the ten commandments written in any of the apostles letters. But for some, on the internet, it is of the utmost importance

 

[GEN2REV]

wadr i dont see how “their” actions affect the analogy at all

That's odd considering your analogy, but stranger things have happened here.

hmm, you think? ive never heard that from a pulpit tbh

Then you haven't been in many churches if you've never heard it preached that 'to obey the 10 Commandments is works salvation, legalism and/or bypassing God's Grace.'

Now you know and knowing is half the battle.

And that's one to grow on.

 

[GEN2REV]

I think I agree with most of what you state in this post, but...

A HERETIC, deceived by a CULT, will tell you that "keeping commandments" is how you save yourself.

... would it be possible for you to post a quote from any thread, anywhere on Christianity Board, from any date no matter how far back, where somebody makes this claim?

If not, then it is a moot point and many use it ad nauseum to attempt to discredit the obeying of the 10 Commandments so it really needs to be addressed, if you please.

 

[farouk]

Amen!

I've noticed that works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works, in contradiction with Scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

In regards to Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense - "servants of sin unto death," or "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being servants of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become servants of righteousness."

*Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

*Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

@mailmandan Romans at the end and at the beginning of the Epistle speaks of 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.

 

[Johann]

You say you believe in grace. But to you, a person can only be righteous before God if they obey the law. Therefore you believe in righteousness of obeying the law

I think I agree with most of what you state in this post, but...
... would it be possible for you to post a quote from any thread, anywhere on Christianity Board, from any date no matter how far back, where somebody makes this claim?

If not, then it is a moot point and many use it ad nauseum to attempt to discredit the obeying of the 10 Commandments so it really needs to be addressed, if you please.

1. He dwells within us at all times (John 14:17, 1 Cor. 6:19, Rom. 8:16, 2 Tim. 1:14).
“Don’t you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from
God?” (1 Cor. 6:19)
2. He guards our salvation and assures us we belong to God (Rom. 8:16, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5)
“The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.” (Rom. 8:16)
3. He gives us hope and peace during difficult times (Rom. 14:17, 15:13, 1 Thess. 1:6).
“May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by
the power of the Holy Spirit.” (Rom. 15:13)
4. He gives us strength and endurance during trials (Eph. 3:16).
“I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being…”
(Eph 3:16)
5. He brings conviction (John 16:8, 1 Thes. 1:5).
“When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment…” (John
16:8)
6. He provides power over temptation (Galatians 5:16).
“So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.” (Gal. 5:16)
7. He grows us into holiness (1 Pet. 1:2)
“…[you] have been chosen… through the sanctifying work of the Spirit.” (1 Pet. 1:2)
8. He helps us pray (Rom. 8:26-27, Eph. 6:18, Jude 20)
“We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot
express.” (Rom. 8:26-27)
9. He gives wisdom for decision making (Eph. 1:17)
“I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom…”
(Eph. 1:17)
10. He provides understanding of God’s Word (1 Cor. 2:9-16).
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.” (John 16:13)
11. He guides and directs into specific events (Acts 13:4, 16:6, Rev. 17:17)
“The two of them, sent on their way by the Holy Spirit…” (Acts 13:4)
12. He calls us unto salvation (Ephesians 4:4).
“There is one body and one Spirit— just as you were called to one hope when you were called…: (Eph. 4:4)
13. He invests us with confidence over fear (2 Timothy 1:7).
“For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.” (2 Tim. 1:7)
14. He gives us the right words to speak about God (Acts 1:8).
“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and
in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)
15. He gives every believer a spiritual gift(s) (1 Corinthians 12:7, Heb. 2:4).
“Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.” (1 Cor. 12:7)
16. He frees us from the letter of the law and gives us the spirit of the law (2 Cor. 3:16-18).
“But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of
the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Cor 3:16-18)
17. He grows within us the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law.” (Gal 5:22-23)

You want to keep the teachings of Christ in your own
strength?

SEE Law Read, BIBLE, THE; THE WORD OF GOD
Instruction given, INSTRUCTION
(14) The Standard of Faith and Duty
Pro_29:18; Isa_8:20; Joh_12:48; Gal_1:8; 1Th_2:13
(15) Its Words Sacred, not to be Altered
Deu_4:2; Deu_12:32; Pro_30:6; Rev_22:19
--SEE Reverence (1), REVERENCE
(16) The Study of Enjoined
Deu_17:19; Isa_34:16; Joh_5:39; Act_17:11; Rom_15:4
--SEE Knowledge (3), KNOWLEDGE
Wisdom Sought, WISDOM
(17) Contains Seed-Corn for the Sower
Psa_126:6; Mar_4:14; Mar_4:15; 2Co_9:10
--SEE Spiritual Sowing, SOWING
(18) Absolutely Trustworthy
1Ki_8:56; Psa_93:5; Psa_111:7; Eze_12:25; Dan_9:12
Mat_5:18; Luk_21:33; Rom_4:16
--SEE Faithfulness, Divine, FAITHFULNESS
Fulfilment, PROPHECY
& PROPHECY
(19) Profitable for Instruction
Deu_4:10; Deu_11:19; 2Ch_17:9; Neh_8:13; Isa_2:3; Act_18:28
--SEE Instruction (2), INSTRUCTION
Law Read, BIBLE, THE; THE WORD OF GOD
(20) Ignorance of, Perilous
Mat_12:3; Mat_19:4; Mat_22:29; Joh_20:9; Act_13:27; 2Co_3:15
--SEE Spiritual Ignorance, IGNORANCE
(21) It Contains the Message to be Delivered
Jer_1:7; Jer_1:17; Jer_11:2; Eze_2:7; Eze_3:17; Act_5:20; Tit_2:15
--SEE Preaching (2), LEADERS
(22) Purity of
Psa_12:6; Psa_18:30; Psa_19:8; Psa_119:140; Pro_30:5; Isa_45:19
(B) THE LAW part of
(1) Ceremonial Abolished in Christ
Eph_2:15; Col_2:14; Heb_7:18; Heb_8:13; Heb_10:1; Heb_12:27
(2) Perfection of the Divine
Psa_19:7; Psa_119:142; Rom_7:12; Rom_7:14; 1Ti_1:8
(3) Keeping of Enjoined
Deu_17:19; Jos_23:6; 1Ch_22:12; Pro_28:7
--SEE Obedience (1), 2614
Book of the Law, GOD'S
Testimonies, TESTIMONIES
Words of Christ, WORDS OF CHRIST
(4) In the Heart
Psa_37:31; Psa_40:8; Jer_31:33; Jer_32:40; Rom_2:15; Rom_7:22; 2Co_3:3
Heb_8:10; Heb_10:16
--SEE 418
(5) Despised
2Ch_36:16; Psa_78:10; Isa_5:24; Isa_30:9; Jer_6:19; Jer_9:13
Hos_4:6; Amo_2:4; Mar_7:9
--SEE Instruction Despised, REJECTION of God and truth
Despisers, DESPISERS
(6) The Public Reading of
Deu_31:11; Jos_8:35; 2Ki_23:2; Neh_8:3; Neh_8:18; Neh_13:1; Jer_36:6
--SEE "Word" Read, BIBLE, THE; THE WORD OF GOD
(7) Impartiality of
Exo_12:49; Lev_24:22; Num_9:14; Num_15:16
--SEE Strangers (3), STRANGERS
(C) STATUTES contained in
(1) General References to
Exo_15:26; Lev_26:46; Deu_4:5; Deu_16:12; 1Ki_3:14; Psa_19:8; Psa_119:12; Psa_119:54
--SEE Commandments, BIBLE, THE; THE WORD OF GOD
(2) Perpetual, given to Israel
Lev_23:14; Lev_23:31; Lev_24:3; Lev_24:9; Num_18:11; Num_19:21
(D) COMMANDMENTS contained in
(1) General References to
Deu_6:6; Deu_11:8; Psa_19:8; Psa_119:6; Mat_15:3; Mat_22:38; 1Jo_5:3
(2) To be Kept
Exo_20:6; Deu_4:40; Deu_6:17; Deu_10:13; Deu_26:18; Jos_22:5; 1Ki_2:3
1Ki_6:12; 1Ki_8:58; 1Ki_11:38; 2Ki_17:13; 1Ch_28:8; 1Ch_29:19; Psa_78:7
Eze_44:24; Mat_19:17; 1Jo_5:3; Rev_14:12
--SEE Obedience (1), OBEDIENCE
Decalogue, DECALOGUE, THE
Tables of Stone, 3543
Words Kept, WORDS OF CHRIST

J.

 

[Behold]

. Anyone who still has an external law, has major problems with their faith, to put it mildly.
You will not find the phrase ''you must obey the ten commandments written in any of the apostles letters. But for some, on the internet, it is of the utmost importance

What is : "self righteousness' ?? As this is the opposite of : The Cross.
The root of self righteousness, is Pride, but what is it exactly, in the context of "Christianity"?
Its this....
= "trying to make SELF RIGHT with God".......by ......... whatever you try to use to do it.
The top 5 would be :

Water Baptism
Law Keeping
Commandment keeping
Holding unto your faith
Enduring to the end

And all of that is SELF EFFORT, as you have to DO THOSE yourself.

Whereas SALVATION... "being SAVED" is what GOD DOES FOR YOU....as its "The GIFT of Salvation".
You dont work for a GIFT.

Reader... can you see JESUS UP THERE BLEEDING AND DYING for you ??
That is "GODs Righteousness".. That is GOD's Salvation.
JESUS is Salvation.

Compare that to : "Self Righteousness". "self Effort" " Works".

 

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan Romans at the end and at the beginning of the Epistle speaks of 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.

'Obedience to the faith' and the 'obedience of faith' does not mean that we are saved by faith + obedience/works in contradiction with (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as 'obeying the gospel' (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience "afterwards." We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" continued multiple acts of obedience/works.

 

[farouk]

'Obedience to the faith' and the 'obedience of faith' does not mean that we are saved by faith + obedience/works in contradiction with (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as 'obeying the gospel' (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience "afterwards." We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" continued multiple acts of obedience/works.

I agree. Faith - through the working of grace - is a work of God which produces obedience. (Unlike the wordy person in James's Epistle for whom it's all talk, talk..... )