Considering the "current" christians are removed ...gathered...departed...prior to the tribulation the "elect" are those who become christians during the tribulation. They are often described as the tribulation saints.
Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ
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Take those 3 verses that speak of a dark sun and post them side by side...in doing so you can see the differences.
TribulationSigns
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But your missing the sudden destruction of them of that time. They say peace and safety.... But this is a false peace after the tribulation of those days. Christ comes after the tribulation. After tribulation is the false peace and safety. The AC seems to be triumphant, he has put down all rule and authority opposed to him. Cause he is not destroyed until Christ returns.
1 Thessalonians 5
1 But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they are saying, “Peace and safety,” then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light and the children of the day; we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep in the night; and those who are drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort yourselves together and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Their is only that one glorious appearing of Christ, the second coming, and it results in a sudden destruction of all the wicked and unbelieving. Then the kingdoms and the earth are given to the people of God.
It will be as Daniel 7 describes the eternal kingdom
After the fourth beast the beast kingdoms of this world are ended. That AC little horn is part of that fourth kingdom.
17 ‘These great beasts, which are four, are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’
www.biblegateway.com
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions in his head upon his bed. Then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spoke and said, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
5 And behold, another beast, a second, like unto a bear. And it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it; and they said thus unto it, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl. The beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth. It devoured, and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days sat down, whose garment was white as snow and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. Thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 “I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spoke; I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him.
14 And there was given Him dominion and glory and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made me know the interpretation of the things:
17 ‘These great beasts, which are four, are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’
19 “Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron and his nails of brass, which devoured, broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up and before whom three fell, even of the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time. (3.5 years)
26 “‘But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
It will be as Daniel 7 describes the eternal kingdom
After the fourth beast the beast kingdoms of this world are ended. That AC little horn is part of that fourth kingdom.
17 ‘These great beasts, which are four, are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’
Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 7 - 21st Century King James Version
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions in his head upon his bed. Then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spoke and said, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four...
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions in his head upon his bed. Then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spoke and said, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
5 And behold, another beast, a second, like unto a bear. And it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it; and they said thus unto it, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl. The beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth. It devoured, and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days sat down, whose garment was white as snow and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. Thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 “I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spoke; I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him.
14 And there was given Him dominion and glory and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made me know the interpretation of the things:
17 ‘These great beasts, which are four, are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’
19 “Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron and his nails of brass, which devoured, broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up and before whom three fell, even of the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time. (3.5 years)
26 “‘But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time. (3.5 years)
26 “‘But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Obviously the saints of the Most High, Christ's people, are on the earth at the time of the end. This is clearly stated by the angel to Daniel.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time. (3.5 years)
26 “‘But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Obviously the saints of the Most High, Christ's people, are on the earth at the time of the end. This is clearly stated by the angel to Daniel.
What is the sudden destruction?
Why would the false peace and safety come after the tribulation??? It seems more likely the AC will cause this false peace and safety....perhaps on his white horse with a bow and fake crown...there are many scenarios...but of course your scenario HAS to be the correct scenario. Right? You seem to be an expert.
LOL. What are you talking about? I addressed those questions to those who made those claims. Address what I wrote to you.
true....at the rapture that is likened to Jesus ascension as mentioned by the angels in Acts Jesus doesn't return on His white horse as described by the glorious description in Rev 19.
They are separate events.
When you finally understand this biblical point the lightbulb will come on for you.
Where is the Pretrib rapture of the Church, followed by your 7 year tribulation, followed by a 3rd coming? Quote the actual text. Underline where the seven year tribulation is taught. Where?
If you find yourself on the earth at that time, patience...
Notice the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 again here in Revelation 13, with the same teaching including the 42 months, 3.5 years...
Including him making war against the saints. On this earth.
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw that one of his heads was, as it were, wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And there was given unto him a mouth, speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in Heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity. He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him; and he causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and lived.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,
17 that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom: Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.
Notice the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 again here in Revelation 13, with the same teaching including the 42 months, 3.5 years...
Including him making war against the saints. On this earth.
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw that one of his heads was, as it were, wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And there was given unto him a mouth, speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in Heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity. He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him; and he causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and lived.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,
17 that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom: Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.
I have one question: where is the Pretrib rapture of the Church, followed by your 7 year tribulation, followed by a 3rd coming?
What? We do not believe in a 7-years trib. Scripture teaches that nowhere.
Like I thought, Pretrib is pure fiction.
I am happy with either one.
Apostasy would be literally " from standing"
"From the faith is added...and not there literally, but instead most agree it is IMPLIED..BUT NOT THE LITERAL.
SO either way, the rapture is pretrib.
Literal should be the go to.
But it interferes with mans natural mind.
If someone needs it to say "from the faith" it really changes nothing, because Jesus taught the pretrib rapture.
Exactly.
My point to "the light " is that he says Jesus comes in power and great glory during the 7 yr trib and is here during the last year of the trib.
So all his doctrine has to be backed up.
As Jesus comes after the 7 yr trib in actual power and great glory..on the white horses.
I pivot off of "power and great glory", combined with the fact of WHEN HE DOES.
The Light says that is wrong.
Jesus tells us He comes AFTER THAT TRIBULATION, meaning after tribulation is when people say 'peace and safety' at last....logically the tribulation ends.... And then comes Christ again. As to how can that be so, I figure the AC has consolidated his rule and establishes a false peace and safety. And Christ's return is unexpected by the world, the thief in the night return, then all the unbelieving world is destroyed.
Mark 13
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;
22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, ‘the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.’
26 And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Debunked.
The Wycliffe Bible translated the word as "dissencioun" (i.e. "dissension"), not "departure".
Every Reformer, suffering under the apostate papal antichrist, would have laughed the idea of a rapture to scorn.
Every Reformer understood apostasy to mean departure from the truth.
The myth of rapture in the verse did not appear until 1859.
Stop perpetuating bunk.
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