Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

[The Light]

You're not following the Bible as written, so I don't have time to waste with you.

Oh, I got the translation. The following questions you were unable to answer because they completely blow your end time beliefs out of the water.

As usual Davy, you have no answer and have to cut and run. I will repost questions as a reminder so you will remember that your end time beliefs aren't possible according to scripture. Tonight, when you are dreaming remember to Run Davy Run.

Why is Jesus coming immediately AFTER the tribulation? Doesn't Jesus have to end the tribulation with the armies of heaven in your view?

Why is Jesus gathering the elect after the tribulation. Shouldn't they be gathered before the tribulation is over.........in your view?

 

[Marty fox]

Not even remotely the same context. By the time Jesus gets to verse 36, verse 20 is already 2000 years in the past. But that doesn't mean I interpret verse 36 in the same manner as Pretrib, that I apply it to what they do. But at least, unlike you, they place verse 36 in the correct era of time, that being the final hours of this age. 2000 years ago was not the final hours of this age.

One thing I am noticing via these Likes being voted, is that there are more members in here than I realized that agree with Preterist thinking throughout the Discourse. For example, anyone that takes Luke 21:27 to be meaning the 2nd coming in the end of this age, which you yourself don't take to mean, should not then be agreeing with your post. Your post contradicts the fact that they agree verse 27 = the 2nd coming in the end of this age. That is the context verse 36 is connected with, not verse 20.

It is clearly confusing to the readers if one's position is that verse 27 = the 2nd coming in the end of this age, but that they agree with you that verse 36, the context is verse 20, not something 2nd coming related instead.

2000 years ago was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the old testament age.

So the disciples ask Jesus when will the temple be destroyed and He tells them, He was talking about thousands of years in the future not about 35 years later? When Jesus uses the word "you" as He's speaking to them about being persecuted and we read about those events in the book of Acts the "you" mentioned in verse 20 wasn't them? Even though it happened about 35 years later when some of them were still alive?

 

[Davy]

Oh, I got the translation. The following questions you were unable to answer because they completely blow your end time beliefs out of the water.

As usual Davy, you have no answer and have to cut and run. I will repost questions as a reminder so you will remember that your end time beliefs aren't possible according to scripture. Tonight, when you are dreaming remember to Run Davy Run.

Why is Jesus coming immediately AFTER the tribulation? Doesn't Jesus have to end the tribulation with the armies of heaven in your view?

Why is Jesus gathering the elect after the tribulation. Shouldn't they be gathered before the tribulation is over.........in your view?

You're false pride will really turn on you one of these days. Admit your error.

 

[grafted branch]

Clearly, He returns to the mount of Olives first, exactly where He departed from, and that even Zechariah 14:4 echoes this. But that doesn't mean He won't be globally seen as He is descending. Satellites and things of that nature would be capturing the event live and broadcasting worldwide.

We keep track of various satellites and objects in orbit, who knows, we might be able to pick up and track Jesus coming to earth from millions of miles in outer space.

If Jesus were to just suddenly start descending from out of a cloud over the mount of Olives, I would think the Israeli government would deploy some kind of anti missile defensive to shoot Him down and maybe scramble fighter jets.

I don’t know, I would think the Bible would give some kind of description other than in like manner. Do you know of any other verses that could be interpreted as describing modern events that would occur?

 

[Davy]

2000 years ago was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the old testament age.

So the disciples ask Jesus when will the temple be destroyed and He tells them, He was talking about thousands of years in the future not about 35 years later? When Jesus uses the word "you" as He's speaking to them about being persecuted and we read about those events in the book of Acts the "you" mentioned in verse 20 wasn't them? Even though it happened about 35 years later when some of them were still alive?

There is such a thing as a 'dual fulfillment prophecy' in God's written Word. Jesus' not one stone atop of another referring to the buildings at the temple mount, is one of those type prophecies. It covered the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans, and it will cover His future destruction at His future coming when today's Jew's build a 3rd temple at the end of this world for the false-Messiah to sit in. One of the ways to know there will be another fulfillment is the first one lacked some prophetic parameter of the prophecy being fulfilled, which is completed at the second fulfillment.

And example also is with Daniel 11 about the "vile person", which is about the same one in Daniel 8 and Daniel 9:27 that ends the daily sacrifice in Jerusalem and sets up an IDOL abomination at the temple instead. Antiochus Epiphanes did that in 165-170 B.C., but he came to power with an army, whereas the prophecy says the "vile person" will come to power using peace and flattery. Plus, Lord Jesus quoted that event about the "vile person" placing the "abomination of desolation" being for the end of this world, which was about 200 years after Antiochus had been dead.

 

[Davidpt]

We keep track of various satellites and objects in orbit, who knows, we might be able to pick up and track Jesus coming to earth from millions of miles in outer space.

If Jesus were to just suddenly start descending from out of a cloud over the mount of Olives, I would think the Israeli government would deploy some kind of anti missile defensive to shoot Him down and maybe scramble fighter jets.

I don’t know, I would think the Bible would give some kind of description other than in like manner. Do you know of any other verses that could be interpreted as describing modern events that would occur?

shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

He didn't go into heaven without being on the earth first, then departing the earth's surface. Therefore, any interpretation that insists He never touches down on the earth when He initially comes, is 100% false. That contradicts the above, since He wasn't initially floating in the sky first, then continued ascending from there. He was clearly on the earth's surface first, literally.

And like I have pointed out in the past. Had there been cellphones back in those days and that this event got recorded, what would it show if played in reverse? It would obviously show Him descending from the clouds, whatever clouds represent here(highly doubtful literal clouds are meant), And once He is out of the clouds, thus in sight, it would continue to show Him descending until He has touched down on the very same spot He left from.

But some ppl don't want to think outside of the box. Because it might cause conflicts with their view of things, thus contradict their view of things. Yet it is perfectly reasonable had there been cellphones in those days, and that the event was recorded then played in reverse that it would indeed 100% show Him touching down exactly where He left from. It would reveal to a T in like manner.

But let's be fair here. When He returns that event is going to be more impactful than when He left. Because when He returns, He returns in power and great glory and in judgment. Therefore, when He touches down, it's not going to be a smooth landing, it's going to cause devastation and great earthquakes like this planet has never experienced before. IMO, the great earthquake meant in Revelation 16 and the 7th bowl is because of Zech 14:4, keeping in mind, the context of verse 5 in Zech 14 pertains to earthquakes, and that this event is also recorded in Ezekiel 38:18-22, where Revelation 16 and the 7th bowl echoes some of it..

 

[Scott Downey]

Clearly, He returns to the mount of Olives first, exactly where He departed from, and that even Zechariah 14:4 echoes this. But that doesn't mean He won't be globally seen as He is descending. Satellites and things of that nature would be capturing the event live and broadcasting worldwide.

Well, it could be, but it goes deeper than just a fully natural event. We don't know if satellites will still be working at that time, or even technology.

There is more to that verse.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Heaven is opening up to the earthly realms, and that would include the dead who are in Hell. People are either on Earth, in Heaven or in Hell. When Christ returns everyone is witness, the living and the dead. He then gathers all to the judgment of the great Day.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - New King James Version

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins - “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise...

www.biblegateway.com

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
..........................
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[The Light]

You're false pride will really turn on you one of these days. Admit your error.

Just answer the question. You talk all this nonsense and then when challenged with facts you want to run every time.

The fact you can't the questions should tell you don't know what you are talking about. Face the facts.

And yet you spew all this nonsense about the rapture of the Church when you are blind to the truth.

Study to show thyself approved.

 

[Davidpt]

He then gathers all to the judgment of the great Day.

But that great day is not meaning Revelation 20:11-15, in the event that is what you are implying. That great day is involving a battle of sorts. Revelation 20:11-15 is not involving a battle of sorts. IOW, regardless when Rev 20:11-15 is meaning, that 'great day' that you mentioned, it precedes, thus does not equal, Rev 20:11-15. Nor does the sheep and goats judgment you brought up involve a battle of sorts either.



Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Maybe it's just me, but the ones meant in Jude 1:6 sure sound like spirits of devils to me. Except they are confined somewhere until the time of the battle of that great day of God Almighty. And that Revelation 16:14 couldn't possibly be meaning the GWTJ nor the sheep and goats judgment.

 

[Davidpt]

2000 years ago was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the old testament age.

So the disciples ask Jesus when will the temple be destroyed and He tells them, He was talking about thousands of years in the future not about 35 years later? When Jesus uses the word "you" as He's speaking to them about being persecuted and we read about those events in the book of Acts the "you" mentioned in verse 20 wasn't them? Even though it happened about 35 years later when some of them were still alive?

He answered their question per Luke 21:20.. But Luke 21:20 is not the context of verse 36. Luke 21:20 is not the context of verse 27 either. Apparently, initially you already knew these things, thus agreed at the time, before you changed your position to what it is now. You didn't always read the Discourse in the exact same manner as now. Correct?

 

[rebuilder 454]

1 Corinthians 12 clearly states there is only one body, there is NO DIVISION of the body. The entire body is gathered together as one body, and there are no separate gathering of separate bodies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink [a]into one Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And he comes for His church as one body of believers when He comes again, we gathered together in one body. Which includes them in heaven and them on earth in Christ.

Ephesians 1:10
that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Paul disagrees.
He divided believers into "spiritual ", "carnal", and "babes".
The bride is the worthy ones that go in the rapture.
Jesus said "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of man".
If it were a passive lump, why pray?
Why "to be found worthy ". Why remove those critical components?
If all saints are lumped together then there can be no bema seat.
The bema seat is "worthy vs unworthy", for rewards.
A clear division made by paul.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@The Light , please note this...and anyone else who is interested.

1. Claim About the "Secret Rapture" and Alien Abductions​

• The Flaw: Comparing a doctrine of the Christian faith to the cultural phenomenon of alien abductions is a wild argument. Essentially admitting that the concept of people mysteriously vanishing invisibly without anyone noticing sounds a lot like science fiction rather than biblical descriptions. Scripture describes Christ's return with a shouting voice, an archangel, a trumpet blast of God, and every eye seeing Him—none of which sounds like a quiet, stealthy sci-fi abduction.

2. Splitting of the Church and Israel (The 144,000)​

• The Flaw: Confusing the literal, numerical sealing of the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel in Revelation 7 with a general gathering of "tribulation saints." The 144,000 are explicitly stated to be sealed from the tribes of the sons of Israel (Revelation 7:4–8), not a code word for a second class of Christian church raptured later. Then having to invent a completely separate timeline and category of people because his pre-trib system can't handle the plain text.

3. Confusion Over the Trumpets​

• The Flaw: This is pure chronological gymnastics. Trying to fit a Jewish holiday calendar (Feast of Trumpets) onto a text where Paul is explicitly defining a linear order. If the trumpet blown after the tribulation is the "last trump," how can there have been an earlier trumpet years prior that snatched the church away? By definition, the "last" trumpet is the final one. You cannot have a "last" trumpet if another group is going to experience a subsequent trumpet-driven rapture later.

4. A 6th Seal Invention​

• The Flaw: Look closely at here: had to invent a scenario where the church is already sitting in heaven just so they can be "gathered" from heaven down to earth (or vice versa) at the 6th seal. The text of Revelation 6 never mentions a rapture at the 6th seal; it describes terrified kings, slaves, and free men hiding in caves shouting for the rocks to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of the Lamb. Inserting a whole narrative into the text that simply isn't there.

1 thes 4 is not rev 19, the second coming.
Mat 24 " before the flood one taken, one left is the setting BEFORE THE TRIBULATION .

The gathering of rev 14 is not, and can not be, either of the other 2 gatherings.

So every attempt to blederize them into one coming , falls way short.

Way to much there to try and gloss over it.

Plus we know THE AC martyrs billions DURING THE TRIB.

Just too much there.
Too much scripture working against a one coming theory.