Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

[ewq1938]

You are a good guy. However, your logic is constantly flawed.

I feel the same. Sorry I wasn't able to help your change your views.

It boils down to this;

If I am wrong, I go through a horrible tribulation and probably will be murdered but am still saved if I remain loyal to Christ.
If you are wrong, especially about what the falling away actually is, then I'd be very concerned about what happens to an apostate in regards to the trib/AC/MoB.

 

[William Barton]

English "star" stems from Old English steorra.

"Stars of heaven" (Revelation 6:13, Mathew 24:29) = meteors ("falling stars").

What we today call stars (such as our own sun) are hundreds of times earth's diameter.

 

[Scott Downey]

If people think they missed the rapture, then they might even think the AC is Christ returned, and worship him as God, 2 Thessalonians 2 speaks about how certain events will take place before our being gathered to Christ. Another big flag, Christ won't be just walking around on the earth, He will come glorified with His own glory, and in His Father's and all the holy angels are with Him.

Luke 9:26
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 13 - 21st Century King James Version

And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said unto Him, "Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!" And Jesus answering, said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? There shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down." And as He...

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19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;

22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, ‘the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.’

26 And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree: When her branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man — no, not the angels who are in Heaven, neither the Son, but only the Father.

33 “Take ye heed, watch and pray; for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.

35 Watch ye therefore, for ye know not when the Master of the house cometh — at evening, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning —

36 lest coming suddenly, He find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you, I say unto all: Watch!”

 

[Scott Downey]

About sleeping this

Those 5 virgins were sleeping and not being watchful to be ready for the coming of the bridegroom, they were not prepared and were shut out from Him when He came and could not enter to be with Him, and He said to them after they cried out Lord, open the door to us, He tells them, I do not know you, where you are from.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Thessalonians 5 - New King James Version

The Day of the Lord - But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as...

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The Day of the Lord​

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [b]comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

 

[Scott Downey]

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - 21st Century King James Version

"Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their...

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“Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made: ‘Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.’
7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, ‘Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out.’
9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Not so, lest there be not enough for us and you; but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.’
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us!’
12 But he answered and said, ‘Verily I say unto you, I know you not.’
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh.


14 “For the Kingdom of Heaven is as a man traveling into a far country, who called his own servants and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to every man according to his several ability, and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them another five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained another two.
18 But he that had received one went and dug in the earth and hid his lord’s money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and reckoned with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought the other five talents, saying, ‘Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents. Behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.’
21 His lord said unto him, ‘Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Thou hast been faithful over a few things; I will make thee ruler over many things. Enter thou into the joy of thy lord.’
22 “He also that had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents; behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.’
23 His lord said unto him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. Thou hast been faithful over a few things; I will make thee ruler over many things. Enter thou into the joy of thy lord.’
24 “Then he that had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew thee, that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed.
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth. Lo, there thou hast what is thine.’
26 His lord answered and said unto him, ‘Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strewed.
27 Thou ought therefore to have placed my money with the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with interest.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him that hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance; but from him that hath not, shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


31 “When the Son of Man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations, and He shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, ‘Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’
37 Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink?
38 When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee?
39 Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I hungered, and ye gave Me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in; naked, and ye clothed Me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited Me not.’
44 Then shall they also answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering or athirst or a stranger, or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister unto Thee?’
45 Then shall He answer them, saying, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.’
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus would not teach like this unless this happens to some people, as in not being able to enter into the kingdom of God to be with Him when He comes a second time for our salvation.

Hebrews 9, tells us the same things, we are to watch be ready and eagerly wait for Him to come and deliver us from this evil age in which we live.

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 13 - New King James Version

Repent or Perish - There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such...

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The Narrow Way​

22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”

And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

 

[Davy]

I know He comes immediately after the great tribulation at the 6th seal. I also know He comes more the once. You seem to deny this truth..........

I never denied that two advents (comings) are prophesied for Lord Jesus Christ. The 1st one already happened though when He was born of woman to die on the cross. The other is when He will return, and reign over all nations with the "rod of iron" promised Him, which has not happened yet. There is NO OTHER coming besides that last one.

Here is where the two prophesied comings were first written...

1st Coming:
Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

2nd Coming:
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

That's it, there is no 3rd or 4th coming written.

As for the 144,000, those literally... represent 12,000 out of each of the tribes of Israel listed there. And not all the tribes are listed, for Ephraim and Dan are left out. Those LITERALLY represent the SEALED of the 'seed' of Israel in prep for the coming "great tribulation". Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent today's JEWS. The rest are about the lost ten tribes that migrated west and were the founders of the western Christian nations along with Gentile believers.

All those, in that Revelation 7 Chapter represent Christ's Church. The 144,000 is specifically about those of the 'seed' of Israel that are in Christ Jesus, and the "great multitude" represents the believing Gentiles in Christ's Church. ALL... of them go through the "great tribulation", which is what that SEALING with GOD's SEAL is for, as mentioned in Revelation 7:1-3.

What the pre-trib rapture doctors have made-up about that 144,000 is just speculation because they 'do not know' really who those are, since they reject much of God's written Word in favor of their 'own' doctrines.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exodus 19
19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. All pre-tribs like you ever do is try to relate unrelated scripture. You have no clear scriptures that support your theories.

I see nothing about the Church in 1 Cor 15. 1 Cor 15 is about the gathering from heaven and earth.

You don't think that Paul is talking about those who are in the church being changed unto bodily immortality at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54? You don't think he is talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ who are part of the church in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23?

Supposed??????

LOL. Do you not know what that word means? Yes, a pre-trib rapture is supposed by those who believe in that false theory. It's not proven, it's supposed without any solid scriptural evidence to back it up.

No. But there is a trumpet after the 7th trumpet blown by an angel which you claim is the last trumpet. FYI, the last trumpet is blown on the Feast of Trumpets

LOL. Just keep making things up if you insist. Your beliefs make no sense.

 

[ewq1938]

About sleeping this

Those 5 virgins were sleeping and not being watchful to be ready for the coming of the bridegroom

All the virgins were sleeping. The only difference is 5 had more oil than the others which meant the ones with enough oil met with Christ and the others were left/rejected.

Point being the "sleeping" part does not imply any wrong doing.

 

[Scott Downey]

All the virgins were sleeping. The only difference is 5 had more oil than the others which meant the ones with enough oil met with Christ and the others were left/rejected.

Point being the "sleeping" part does not imply any wrong doing.

Sleeping per say is okay, but do not let a single day go by without getting into a right relationship with Christ.
The world sleeps unawares of the coming day of wrath and perdition (destiny hell fire) of ungodly men.
The unprepared 5 virgins, brought no oil for their lamps, and slept as did the other 5, rather than going and buying oil before the bridegroom came. He comes at a time when the world is not expecting Him.
For the unsaved, who sleep, that Day overtakes them as a thief and there is no escape.

But for us this, 1 Thessalonians 5

​

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [a]comfort each other and [b]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

 

[William Barton]

ουκ ερχεται η βασιλεια του θεου μετα παρατηρησεως (Luke 17:20)

"The kingdom of God does not come with signs."

The return of Jesus will be sudden and unexpected (Revelation 19:11-21).
The return is to Jerusalem, at the plain of Megiddo.

 

[ScottA]

Luke 17:20 says:
ουκ ερχεται η βασιλεια του θεου μετα παρατηρησεως
not comes the kingdom that of God with signs to be observed

The return of Jesus will be sudden and unexpected. See Revelation 19:11-21.

This return is to Jerusalem.

Thanks for the clarification!

But since you also commented, to finish the complete messaged as returning to "Jerusalem"-- What is the original meaning of "Jerusalem", and what would your translation look like with the meaning of Jerusalem included in your explanation?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never denied that two advents (comings) are prophesied for Lord Jesus Christ. The 1st one already happened though when He was born of woman to die on the cross. The other is when He will return, and reign over all nations with the "rod of iron" promised Him, which has not happened yet. There is NO OTHER coming besides that last one.

Here is where the two prophesied comings were first written...

1st Coming:
Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

2nd Coming:
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

That's it, there is no 3rd or 4th coming written.

As for the 144,000, those literally... represent 12,000 out of each of the tribes of Israel listed there. And not all the tribes are listed, for Ephraim and Dan are left out. Those LITERALLY represent the SEALED of the 'seed' of Israel in prep for the coming "great tribulation". Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent today's JEWS. The rest are about the lost ten tribes that migrated west and were the founders of the western Christian nations along with Gentile believers.

All those, in that Revelation 7 Chapter represent Christ's Church. The 144,000 is specifically about those of the 'seed' of Israel that are in Christ Jesus, and the "great multitude" represents the believing Gentiles in Christ's Church. ALL... of them go through the "great tribulation", which is what that SEALING with GOD's SEAL is for, as mentioned in Revelation 7:1-3.

What the pre-trib rapture doctors have made-up about that 144,000 is just speculation because they 'do not know' really who those are, since they reject much of God's written Word in favor of their 'own' doctrines.

lol
rev 14;14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.



God's word does not need any modifying. You can deny it though as you have demonstrated many times

 

[William Barton]

Jerusalem
יךושלים
ירו yerou = city
שלים shalom = peace
City of Peace

"At that time Jerusalem will be known as the throne of the Lord" (Jeremiah 3:17)

 

[The Light]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

Wow. Exactly my point. The trump of God is the voice of God. We find the trump of God in 1 Thes 4 which is about the rapture of the Church.

The trump of God has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the last trump. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and is found in 1 Corinthians 15. The last trump also has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. It is blown at the 6th seal and is the gathering from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God which occurs immediately after the great tribulation.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

All pre-tribs like you ever do is try to relate unrelated scripture. You have no clear scriptures that support your theories.

It appears that you do not know the difference between the trump of God which is the voice of God and the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

You don't think that Paul is talking about those who are in the church being changed unto bodily immortality at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54?

No. Of course not. The Church is raptured to heaven at the trump of God, 1 Thes 4:16-17.

Those raptured in 1 Corinthians 15 are raptured at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. This is talking about the people of Daniel who go through the great tribulation.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

You don't think he is talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ who are part of the church in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23?

The Church is already in heaven before the great tribulation. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed. God turns His attention to the people of Daniel.

LOL. Do you not know what that word means? Yes, a pre-trib rapture is supposed by those who believe in that false theory. It's not proven, it's supposed without any solid scriptural evidence to back it up.

No evidence. LOL. The Church is in heaven as kings and priests before the seals are opened. Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

There's lots of evidence.

LOL. Just keep making things up if you insist. Your beliefs make no sense.

You lack understanding. There are two folds that become one fold which is the great multitude. The first fold is the Church and second fold is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Wow. Exactly my point. The trump of God is the voice of God. We find the trump of God in 1 Thes 4 which is about the rapture of the Church.

The trump of God has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the last trump. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and is found in 1 Corinthians 15. The last trump also has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. It is blown at the 6th seal and is the gathering from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God which occurs immediately after the great tribulation.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


It appears that you do not know the difference between the trump of God which is the voice of God and the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.


No. Of course not. The Church is raptured to heaven at the trump of God, 1 Thes 4:16-17.

Those raptured in 1 Corinthians 15 are raptured at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. This is talking about the people of Daniel who go through the great tribulation.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.




The Church is already in heaven before the great tribulation. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed. God turns His attention to the people of Daniel.

No evidence. LOL. The Church is in heaven as kings and priests before the seals are opened. Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

There's lots of evidence.

You lack understanding. There are two folds that become one fold which is the great multitude. The first fold is the Church and second fold is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Wow. Exactly my point. The trump of God is the voice of God. We find the trump of God in 1 Thes 4 which is about the rapture of the Church.

The trump of God has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the last trump. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and is found in 1 Corinthians 15. The last trump also has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. It is blown at the 6th seal and is the gathering from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God which occurs immediately after the great tribulation.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


It appears that you do not know the difference between the trump of God which is the voice of God and the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.


No. Of course not. The Church is raptured to heaven at the trump of God, 1 Thes 4:16-17.

Those raptured in 1 Corinthians 15 are raptured at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. This is talking about the people of Daniel who go through the great tribulation.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.




The Church is already in heaven before the great tribulation. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed. God turns His attention to the people of Daniel.

No evidence. LOL. The Church is in heaven as kings and priests before the seals are opened. Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

There's lots of evidence.

You lack understanding. There are two folds that become one fold which is the great multitude. The first fold is the Church and second fold is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman.

Also, in Rev 1 when Jesus spoke it sounded like a trumpet.

 

[The Light]

I never denied that two advents (comings) are prophesied for Lord Jesus Christ. The 1st one already happened though when He was born of woman to die on the cross. The other is when He will return, and reign over all nations with the "rod of iron" promised Him, which has not happened yet. There is NO OTHER coming besides that last one.

Here is where the two prophesied comings were first written...

1st Coming:
Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

2nd Coming:
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

That's it, there is no 3rd or 4th coming written.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal. All eyes see the coming of the Lord. There is a harvest, seen here.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is the gathering from heaven and earth (Church gathered from heaven as we are raptured before the great tribulation and 12 twelve are gathered from the earth at the 6th seal before the wrath of God) which becomes the great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. We are at the marriage supper in Revelation 19.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Then we return again with the armies of heaven in Rev 19. Then Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives when is the second advent.

As for the 144,000, those literally... represent 12,000 out of each of the tribes of Israel listed there. And not all the tribes are listed, for Ephraim and Dan are left out. Those LITERALLY represent the SEALED of the 'seed' of Israel in prep for the coming "great tribulation".

The Church is in heaven before the great tribulation. After the rapture of the Church it starts over. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming. The first fruits are the 144,000 from twelve tribes. The twelve tribes across the earth, which are the seed of the woman Israel are raptured at the 6th seal before the 7th seal is opened. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent today's JEWS. The rest are about the lost ten tribes that migrated west and were the founders of the western Christian nations along with Gentile believers.

God know who the Jews are. They may be lost to you, but they are not lost to Him.

All those, in that Revelation 7 Chapter represent Christ's Church.

All those in Revelation 7 are the great multitude. The Church is in heaven before the great tribulation which begins in the midst of the week. The Church is the first fold. Then there are 144,000 first fruits from 12 tribes. They are first fruits because they are raptured to heaven as we see in Revelation 14:3-4. Then the harvest of the 12 tribes occur (Rev 14:14-16) before the 7th seal is opened. They are the ones that come out of great tribulation in Revelation 7.

They are also the ones that get victory over the beast in the great tribulation. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The 144,000 is specifically about those of the 'seed' of Israel that are in Christ Jesus, and the "great multitude" represents the believing Gentiles in Christ's Church. ALL... of them go through the "great tribulation", which is what that SEALING with GOD's SEAL is for, as mentioned in Revelation 7:1-3.

The 144,000 are first fruits of 12 tribes. The Church is in heaven before they become first fruits. The great multitude is the Church which is the first fold and 12 tribes across the earth which is the second fold. We are all in heaven for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.

The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, remain on the earth during the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to God wrath.

What the pre-trib rapture doctors have made-up about that 144,000 is just speculation because they 'do not know' really who those are, since they reject much of God's written Word in favor of their 'own' doctrines.

I don't know what you are referring to. The 144,000 are of 12 tribes of Israel. They have nothing to do with the Church. The Church is in heaven before the great tribulation. It is the 12 tribes that go through the great tribulation and get victory over the beast by the blood of the lamb. The twelve tribes are raptured to heaven BEFORE the ONE YEAR wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

 

[The Light]

Also, in Rev 1 when Jesus spoke it sounded like a trumpet.

Yep

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yep

This is why it is a challenge unpacking end times passages.
We need help...lol