Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

[Truth7t7]

You're missing that not all passages that describe events related to the second coming of Christ contain all the same details. Do you believe that Matthew 24:30-31 describes the same event as Revelation 19:11-21?

100% Yes

2 different explanations of the Lord's second coming that contain different details

There is one future second coming of Jesus Christ, this takes place on the last day, on the day of the Lord

Yes the poster falsely believes and teaches of two future comings of Jesus Christ, and we both know well that's a bogus claim not found in scripture "Fact"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[The Light]

Many does not mean "not all". All of something can be described as "many" or 'a multitude". Everyone but you knows that.

When the words are "Many of THEM that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised"............it is not referring to all.

Maybe this will help you understand.

"Many of them"

A large number or a high percentage of the group.

Some, but not all. It explicitly leaves room for exceptions.

 

[ewq1938]

I Disagree, Daniel 12:1-2 teaches of the final judgment when the book of life is opened, Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29 are the same event in (The Last Day Resurrection)

You think your going to separate Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29 by using the word "Many" as compared to "All", that's absolutely laughable, and hard to believe your denial of this very clear biblical fact, "Sad"

I have no need to further explain the last day resurrection as seen in Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29, we have run around the bush several times now, the horse is dead its all yours

Jesus Is The Lord

(Every One That Shall Be Found Written In The Book) Final Judgement "THE END"

(The Last Day Resurrection)

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Final Judgement "THE END"

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You left out one of the two resurrections in Rev 20. You showed both in the other two passages. Here's the first one in Rev 20:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

When the words are "Many of THEM that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised"............it is not referring to all.

It splits up all the dead into two groups. There's no dead person left after those two resurrections.

 

[Truth7t7]

When the words are "Many of THEM that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised"............it is not referring to all.

False, the word "Many" does not exclude the word "All" as you suggest, "Fact" Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 are the very same exact teaching of the last day resurrection that takes place at the one and only future second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)

 

[The Light]

Nonsense. Both passages refer to the resurrection of the dead in Christ which will happen when Christ returns at the last trumpet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Do you deny that when the dead in Christ rise that they will then be changed to be incorruptible and immortal? How can you think that the dead mentioned in 1 Thess 4:16-17 are not the same as mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52? There is no basis for that belief whatsoever.

No, only 1 Corinthians 15 is talking about the Lords return at the 6th seal at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Corinthians 15 also shows that the dead and alive are changed at the last trump, so they are changed at the same time in the twinkling of an eye. Whereas in 1 Thessalonians 4 it shows that the dead are raised first and the alive remain..........so they are NOT changed at the same time.

 

[The Light]

It splits up all the dead into two groups. There's no dead person left after those two resurrections.

Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.

Not all of them shall be raised, only many of them.

Additionally, this is only talking about the people of Daniel.

 

[The Light]

Other translations say "multitudes" rather than "many". The Hebrew word translated as "many" or "multitudes" does not mean "many, but not all" as you imagine. When all of something is described (in this case all of the dead) they can be described as "many" or "multitudes". The word indicates that the number of those being resurrected will be very large, but does not imply that not all will be resurrected.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (NIV)

There are multitudes of people living on the earth. Am I only referring to some, but not all people who are living on earth by saying that? No, I'm referring to all people and describing their number as "multitudes".

Jesus made it clear that ALL of the dead will be resurrected at the same hour/time, so Jesus obviously had a much better understanding of Daniel 12:2 than you do.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

In John 5 ALL that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Before that event MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth were raised.

 

[The Light]

I Disagree, Daniel 12:1-2 teaches of the final judgment when the book of life is opened, Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29 are the same event in (The Last Day Resurrection)

Nope Daniel 12:1 is talking about the great tribulation. The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. This is when the Lord comes for a harvest.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You think your going to separate Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29 by using the word "Many" as compared to "All", that's absolutely laughable, and hard to believe your denial of this very clear biblical fact, "Sad"

You do not think because it seem you do not understand the difference between ALL and MANY.

I have no need to further explain the last day resurrection as seen in Daniel 12:2 & John 5:28-29, we have run around the bush several times now, the horse is dead its all yours

You haven't even figured out that the last day of the of the age occurs at the 6th seal. Then the ONE-YEAR wrath of God begins which is the day of vengeance.

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[The Light]

False, the word "Many" does not exclude the word "All" as you suggest, "Fact" Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 are the very same exact teaching of the last day resurrection that takes place at the one and only future second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)

Many of them refers to some of them...............not all of them. This is basic english.


Maybe this will help you understand.

"Many of them"

A large number or a high percentage of the group.

Some, but not all. It explicitly leaves room for exceptions.

 

[ewq1938]

Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.

Not all of them shall be raised, only many of them.

Additionally, this is only talking about the people of Daniel.

It's speaking of all the dead in two groups like many other passages and it is not only about Daniel's people.

 

[ewq1938]

Many of them refers to some of them...............not all of them. This is basic english.

It wasn't written in English. Many are in the first resurrection, and many are in the second resurrection. That's still all eventually.

 

[ewq1938]

False, the word "Many" does not exclude the word "All" as you suggest, "Fact" Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 are the very same exact teaching of the last day resurrection that takes place at the one and only future second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)

Mostly correct. There are two resurrections in the passages, as well as in Rev 20. The saved all rise first, then after a long time the unsaved will all rise.

 

[Truth7t7]

Mostly correct. There are two resurrections in the passages, as well as in Rev 20. The saved all rise first, then after a long time the unsaved will all rise.

I Disagree

There won't be a future 1,000 year gap between resurrections as you suggest, as you believe and teach in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus Christ, this teaching doesn't exist in scripture "Nowhere"

Jesus Christ returns and the resurrection of all that have lived takes place, (Then Cometh The End) Eternity begins in the twinkling of an eye

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus Christ returns and the resurrection of all that have lived takes place, (Then Cometh The End) Eternity begins in the twinkling of an eye

Not according to many passages. There are always two resurrections. Look for yourself:


Revelation 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.



Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

 

[Davidpt]

False, the word "Many" does not exclude the word "All" as you suggest, "Fact" Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 are the very same exact teaching of the last day resurrection that takes place at the one and only future second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)

That same Hebrew word (rab) is used elsewhere in Daniel 12, not just verse 2. Is it meaning 'all' in those verses too?

Better yet, let's look at every single instance of 'rab' in the book of Daniel then point out which verse or verses support your interpretation of that word in Daniel 12:2.


Dan 8:25, Dan 8:26, Dan 9:27, Dan 11:14, Dan 11:18, Dan 11:26, Dan 11:33, Dan 11:34, Dan 11:39, Dan 11:40, Dan 11:41, Dan 11:44, Dan 12:2, Dan 12:3, Dan 12:4, Dan 12:10

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many(rab): he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many(rab)
days.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many(rab) for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:14 And in those times there shall many(rab) stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

Daniel 11:18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many(rab) : but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.

Daniel 11:26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many(rab) shall fall down slain.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many(rab): yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many(rab) days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many(rab) shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many(rab), and shall divide the land for gain.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many(rab) ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many(rab) countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Daniel 12:2 And many(rab) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many(rab) to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many(rab) shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:10 Many(rab) shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

[The Light]

It wasn't written in English

My Bible is in English.

Many are in the first resurrection, and many are in the second resurrection. That's still all eventually.

It would have to be worded...........All of them that sleep in dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Davidpt]

My Bible is in English.


It would have to be worded...........All of them that sleep in dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

If all is meant what Hebrew word, not English word, would likely have been used? I fully agree many(rab) isn't meaning all. So wondering if you might know what Hebrew word likely would have been used if all is meant?

 

[Davidpt]

It wasn't written in English. Many are in the first resurrection, and many are in the second resurrection. That's still all eventually.

I grasp your logic except I'm not convinced that those that awake to everlasting shame don't awake when the ones that awake to everlasting life do. But I'm only meaning in Daniel 12:2. Not meaning John 5 as well. IOW, some of the lost rise in order to appear at the sheep and goats judgment involving the saved and the lost within the church. The remainder of the lost rise after the millennium in order to be judged at the GWTJ. I guess you would have to interpret the sheep and goats judgment in the manner I do in order to see why I conclude this.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not according to many passages. There are always two resurrections. Look for yourself:


Revelation 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.



Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

You falsely have the righteous saved being resurrected 1,000 years before (The Last Day) and you remove the words (Then Cometh The End) as if they don't exist, then you falsely teach that mortals on this earth live for 1,000 years beyond the words described? "100% "False"

1.) You don't believe in the words (I Will Raise Him Up At The Last Day) John 6:39-40

2.) You dont believe that when Jesus comes (Then Cometh The End) as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:21-24

You don't believe that the words (Last Day) means exactly what is stated (Last Day) in final judgement John 12:48, you've created a private interpretation to exclude the meaning of the afore mentioned words (Then Cometh The End) and (The Last Day) to "Falsely" allow for Mortals to live on this earth for 1,000 years "Wrong"!

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.