I don't see a partial Rapture in Scripture, actually.
OSAS But Be Ready Or Else
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Get real and practical. Get out of this theoretical standard that is impossible to achieve in practice.
Too obtuse. Other than Jesus, no one always walks perfectly with God all the time.
Are you asking for when saved believers stop abiding in Him?
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Or are you asking for proof that believers that stop abiding in Him are still saved?
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Paul just gave an example of a former believer above, yet he points out next how that foundation and that seal is sure for why een former belevers and not just those who have gone astray, are to be called to depart from iniquity.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Now look at what is in His House. There are 2 kinds of vessels that are in His House.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
Now look at how departing from iniquity makes one a vessel unto honor in His House below.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So those who do not depart from iniquity are what? The vessels unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood & earth, but still saved because they are in His House.
That is what the OP is about; OSAS but be ready or else.
Just trust Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd & Friend now to help you to be always ready and found abiding in Him and His words, brother.
Death can strike at us at any second and not just the rapture, even though you do not presently believe in the rapture yet.
@Chirst4Me
You did not answer the questions....but I will.
WHO exactly is a saint that is “left” behind? [//B]
1) the Beloved of God....(who is NOT sanctified in Christ Jesus)
2) Gods ISRAEL is Gods Beloved, rejected Christ Jesus, did not answer the Calling.
3) Those Sanctified IN CHRIST JESUS, are CALLED TO BE SAINTS, and answer the Calling becoming S
Rom 1
[7] To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor.1
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
WHAT exactly do you mean “left” behind?
WHY exactly is a saint “left” behind?[/QUOTE]
Never mind. This is a jumbled mess.
Behold
Well-Known Member
When someone keeps sowing to the flesh, they will reap corruption as God is not mocked. Galatians 6:7-8
But when one looks to Jesus Christ daily to help them lay aside ever weight ( provision for the flesh ) & sin, ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) that is an ongoing act of repentance and forgiveness while walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son ( 1 John 1:3-9 ).
That is what discipleship is all about; running that race by faith in Him to finish but it is more than for the rewards of crowns or even to prevent the loss of crowns since one can become a castaway ( 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ); as in disqualified from the race for that high prize of being that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 2:10-26
But it is unfortunate that some believers will be brought into bondage again not heeding the call to escape those that live in error. 2 Peter 2:18-22
Thank you for sharing.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
The discomforts, deprivations, and hazards of ministry, mission, and possibly martyrdom, can cause Christians to withdraw from the frontline.
2Ti 4:10 for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica.
Odd that someone supporting OSAS would be concerned about backsliders losing their salvation.
"And the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we that are alive and remain . . ." this is inclusive language. Partial rapture is fully refuted in these words.
Much love!
At the time you had posted that for which I had replied to, you hadn't. But after that, you have. Unless you had posted one before that which was not directed to me, I may have missed it.
I disagree, because Jesus was referring to the current buildings of the temple that was standing that the Disciples were seeing that He testified it would be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-3 That was why His disciples were asking about, among other future things.
I doubt His disciples knew to apply Zechariah 14 to what Jesus was saying. You do not get them asking those 3 questions then if they did in present view of the buildings of the temple that Jesus just through saying, they shall be thrown down.
As for applying Matthew 24:13-23, I agree that this is about the great tribulation when the third Temple is built, but I also understand Preterist's P.O.V. for thinking it had come to pass already in 70 A.D. but they forget that one can find double prophecies in the O.T. for why not everything in their application has come to pass, but it will be fully done in the near future still. So Preterist may apply that because of what Jesus said about those buildings of the Temple they were seeing, but they should take pause on the account that the everlasting gospel has not been preached everywhere yet before that event.
Revelation 14:1-8 where verses 1-5 has redeeming those 144,000 virgin men from the earth out of those that were raptured, making up Jesus's personal choir in Heaven. Then the first angel spreads the everlasting gospel every where in verses 6-7 and then the end will come as the fall of Babylon is when that fire comes down on the third of the earth as announced by the 2nd angel verse 8.
Matthew 24:4-13 are the days we are living now about false prophets. Then He gets into the great tribulation drama following after the rapture event when the everlasting gospel is preached by that first angel in Matthew 24:14-22 for why the great tribulation is shortened to 7 years. Then He goes back again giving more details about what happened before the great tribulation regarding false prophets. Matthew 7:23-51 is for why believers not ready for Him when He comes before the great tribulation, will be cast out into the bed of that coming great tribulation.
Revelation 2:18-25 is proof that those who are not ready will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.
In Zechariah 14, Jesus comes back with the saints in touching down on the Mount of Olives; but it was not numbered by how many.
There will be 144,000 Witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation from Jewish backgrounds that will become believers in Jesus Christ after the pre great trib rapture, but that is not them either in Revelation 14:1-5 as these are virgin men that do not lie, and they redeemed from the earth in making up in being His personal choir in Heaven.
The 144,000 witnesses will be before the fire comes on the third of the earth; note verse 1 of Revelation 7:1-8 hence that fire being after the everlasting gospel is preached. Revelation 14:6-12 for how and why Babylon had fallen Revelation 18:1-24
The Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture is about Lord Jesus' WARNING against believing on the coming false-Christ in His place. That is WITHIN the "great tribulation" time, because it began with the placing of that "abomination of desolation" idol in verse 15. He quoted from the Book of Daniel about that, and that means including the prophecies in Daniel involving the "vile person" of Daniel 11 and the AOD he is to place in a final temple there in Jerusalem. Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. serves as a blueprint for that future event by the Antichrist at the end just prior to Christ's future return.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Kingdom of heaven is made up of 3 harvests as this is "hid".
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
#1 Christ the firstfruits at the rapture event when He comes as the Bridegroom judging the House of God first.
#2. Then they that be Christ's at His coming as the King of kings.
#3. Then after a thousand years, Satan is released from the pit to stage a last rebellion for a small season as those who remain loyal to Christ as the loyalists will make up the third harvest that completes the kingdom of Heaven after the Great White Throne Judgement before the Son gives it back to the Father.
Not really. I see this in a lot of scriptures for why I see it in that.
Those little children are men.
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
I disagree. Jesus refers to little ones as a brother that went astray.
Matthew 1810 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
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You do know that by clicking on the scripture references in the post, it will switch page to the forum's use of the scripture in the ESV? Then you hit the back button on your browser to go back to the thread in discussion?
That is when I see God judging His House first for why many believers were not found to be ready.
What do you say about that special rapture of those two witnesses for halfway thru the great tribulation?
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth..... 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
So maybe you should consider that you missed something?
I understand your point of view but I disagree.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
After the rapture, before that fire comes on a third of the earth, there will be 144,000 witnesses of Jewish background as believers in Jesus Christ which may have been are result of the everlasting gospel preached in all the world. They will be saved witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation.
Revelation 7:1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Born again believers in works that deny Him,( Titus 1:16 ) will be denied by Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) for why they will be on earth for when that fire comes on earth. Luke 12:40-49 Even former believers left behind, Jesus is faithful for He still abides for why they are still saved. see verse 13 in 2 Timothy 2:11-13
It is God judging His House first for why He will deny them for being workers of iniquity because any iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied by Him for that reason. Matthew 7:21-23 And this happens at the Marriage Supper where this is hinted as sitting down with O.T. saints Luke 13:24-30
But they are not losing their salvation, but denied by Him for being in iniquity still. When you read verse 13 that He is faithful because He still abides in former believers...
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
That is why we are to seek those that profess Him but have gone astray to call them to depart from iniquity with His help so they too may be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House as that IS the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Those saints in unrepentant iniquity & former believers are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes into becoming vessels unto dishonor but still in His House.
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