OSAS But Be Ready Or Else
- Thread starter Christ4Me
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Hilarious . . .
Then explain why there are least in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Explain how vessels unto dishonor are in His House that did not depart from iniquity to be that vessel unto honor?
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
The analogy refers to an earthly great house, not the heavenly afterlife, and ends with purging as a requirement to being sanctified, fit for service to God, and ready for good work.
God's Foreknowledge of those
- who were once enlightened, and
- who tasted the heavenly gift, and
- who become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
- who tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
- but fell away, and ultimately proved to be reprobates with stubborn wills and hardened hearts,
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
People hearing, are receiving measures of Faith.
People hearing, are receiving measures of Gifts, Blessings of the Holy Spirit.
It is called “TASTING”. It is not called “Receiving Salvation”.
Such people can certainly QUIT hearing, QUIT receiving measures of Faith, QUIT receiving Gifts and Blessing of the Holy Spirit....They were NEVER IN HIS HAND.
Those IN His Hand, ARE SAVED. Once IN His Hand, none can remove that individual from His Hand.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
That's simply because He doesn't finalise the salvation of anyone He foreknows who converts and continues a while but then irrevocably falls away.
That is a confusing statement.
A convert Is Saved before physical death.
A believer who continues for awhile then falls away is not (converted or saved, then or later.)
A believer who continues believing unto physical death, is Saved at time of physical death.
@Taken The Parable of the Sower shows how some who profess have no root in them...
The Big Picture HANGS on “POWER”.
* (ACT of a man)....Every Sunday....Men can Go to Church, Open their Ears to a SERMON.....HEAR, BELIEVE, FOLLOW along with the Amens!!!
* Every, Monday ~ Saturday....Men can Hear, believe...news commentators, music, governmental authorities, friends, neighbors, family, teachers, schools, internet strangers, poems, books, magazines, news papers, etc.
.....AND?.....
* Ponder, think, “weigh back and forth”....IF what they hear and learn M~F HAS ANY, “positive or negative” EFFECT on What they Believed....on Sunday.
* And NOT TO OVER LOOK....MANY young Impressionable CHILDREN, and MANY Adults.....ARE ONLY HEARING.....the latter...M~F influences....(with only a VAGUE thought OR NO thought of any consideration of SCRIPTURE.)
* THE PARAMOUNT ......”POWER”......Hangs on...
~ the latter is dependent on “his own power”.
~ the former is dependent on “Gods Power” (on Sunday), gathered with others IN Gods HOUSE, God WITH him.
* THE DILEMMA....
~ man’s power is weak, vulnerable, easily influenced, easily swayed.
~ In Gods HOUSE, WITH God...is what? ( 2 hours? Before the stomach growls and making plans where to go eat becomes the focus?)
* THE Bottom Line Solution....IS accepting Gods OFFERING of Him to not only BE “WITH” a man, at a mans CONVENIENCE....But rather Gods OFFERING of Him......HIS POWER.....to BE “WITH”......AND.....”IN” a man 24-7....THAT, Nothing that man Hears, Sees, Touches, Tastes, Smells.....CAN influence that man TO STOP, and “weigh between this and that”....BUT RATHER...NOTHING what-so-ever....CAN Direct that man AWAY FROM God....BECAUSE it IS BY POWER “IN” that man that Keeps that man “WITH” God forever.
* Simple. Gods Offering. Mans Election. Go it alone. Accept Gods Gracious Offering.
* Already known Fact...Few Accept Gods Offering.
* Obvious to our Eyes and Ears...Few Accept Gods Offering.
Glory to God,
Taken
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
To be more specific;
A man in belief, who continues to believe to the day of his physical death.....
SHALL BE SAVED AT THAT TIME. (It’s called enduring)
A man in belief, who DOES NOT continue to believe to the day of his physical death.... SHALL NOT BE SAVED. (It’s called falling from faith) (It is also called having LOST his salvation.)
* the misnomer is and false preaching is: such a man RECEIVED his Salvation, and THEN LOST his Salvation.
Salvation is Gods “GIFT” to GIVE.
Gods Salvation “GIFT” was PAID for, and OFFERED to every person in the world.
It is already “THEIR GIFT” , bought and paid for “FOR THEM”.
A “GIFT” is NOT forced on anyone.
A “GIFT” must be the RECEIVERS ‘option’ to ACCEPT and RECEIVE the “GIFT”, before they POSSESS the “GIFT”.
Any man who REFUSES to “Accept or Receive” the “GIFT”; Loses his Gift!
There IS a “condition” for a man to RECEIVE Gods Offered “GIFT” of Salvation; Heartful Belief BEFORE physical death.
~ For 4,000 years some OT men took advantage of BELIEVING in the Lord God Almighty, to the day of their Physical Death, and Received Gods “Gift of Salvation”.
~ Beginning some 2,000 years ago, (entering into the NT), the Word of God, was sent out of Gods mouth, to earth, in a body God prepared, to OFFER all of mankind a NEW BETTER TESTAMENT and OFFERING;
~ THAT any of mankind COULD RECEIVE Gods GIFT of SALVATION......
BEFORE PHYSICAL DEATH assured BY THE POWER of GOD, their RECEIVED GIFT could NEVER BE LOST, REVOKED, TAKEN AWAY.
THAT ^ is the whole premise upon which OSAS rests. Gods OWN promise, and men WHO TRUST to believe God IS FAITHFUL and TRUE.
(And no doubt, there are many men who reject Gods Word is faithful and true.)
Glory to God,
Taken
Enduring to the end means being abiding in Him in the end. Since the call to depart from iniquity is how one can purge himself to be that vessel unto honor in His House to be received by the Bridegroom, then enduring to the end includes those whom have repented & are ready to go, including former believers that have departed from iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
That is why those in iniquity are denied by Him as their works do deny Him but yet He still abides in those left behind because they are still His.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This is why there are left behind saints & new believers that will go through the great tribulation after the rapture event as shown at this link;
The Pre-Trib Rapture
No. It means abiding WITH Him, “according to a mans own power”.
*Every man that BELIEVES, is abiding “WITH” the Lord.
Those men ^ receive blessings from God.
Those men can at ANY time, stop believing, STOP being “WITH” the Lord, and the Lord will “STOP” being WITH those men.
* Those men are repeatedly WARNED in Scripture, of CUNNING evil spiritual influences in the world, and of influences in the world of wicked men....WHO MAY “influence” them to STOP being WITH the Lord.
* ^ That has no Application to a man “IN” Christ. THEY are “IN” Christ “according to Gods POWER”. Nothing can influence them or cause them to NOT BE “WITH” the Lord.
You completely overlook, the difference between Gods power WITH a man and Gods power IN a man.
Review ancient scriptural history....Gods power WITH men, men were blessed. Gods power WITHOUT men, men failed.
Review Jesus’ teaching and offering....Gods power IN men, is permanent.
Irrelevant...the topic is not about wondering if resurrection is past already.
Those left behind to suffer the beginning of the Tribulation, are those who Reject God and or Christ.
Israel primarily accepts God and has heard, yet rejects Christ...
The Tribulation begins with the LAMB of GODS wrath, upon those who rejected Jesus.
Mindful professing....^^ (irrelevant)...God requires Heartful belief, until ones death, to become Saved at death. OR heartful Confessed belief, to become SAVED then, while still alive.
Pick one, they all do not apply to the SAVED now.
Absolutely some will go through PARTS of the Tribulation and BECOME believers, and KILLED for their belief.
A CONVERTED MAN, has already VOLUNTARILY freely given his BODILY LIFE unto DEATH....REMEMBER....crucified “WITH” Christ? Christ “IN” that man? That man “IN” Christ. FOREVER “WITH” the Lord God?
Glory to God,
Taken
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Perhaps worse still is the belief that a person is forever saved regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Rom 11:19-22 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." (20) Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (22) Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Scripture disagrees with you, brother.
John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
This is about being His disciples in bearing fruit so that their joy may be full when they rely on Jesus all the time for help in doing His commandments.
Salvation is not lost but being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven is lost but still in that kingdom of heaven, as those five foolish virgins are for not being ready for the Bridegroom in that kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 25:1-13 <---- you can click on and read it if you want, but I'd thought I would keep it short.
OSAS is true but Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else because He will excommunicate those not abiding i Him nor willing too leave tis life behind.
When you consider the parable of the ten virgins how they are likened unto the kingdom of heaven, meaning they are the kingdom of heaven, but five were foolish being out to the market place getting oil to be filled, and were not ready for the Bridegroom when He had come, thus shut out from that Marriage Supper within that kingdom of heaven, do note that the five that were foolish were still in that kingdom of heaven. Matthew 25:1-13
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Of course, the few contrary verses are Misinterpreted / Misunderstood, while...
...The MANY Plain And Clear Passages Of Truth, are not:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance
NOTHING whatsoever guarantees a believer WILL NOT STOP BELIEVING and BE BROKEN OFF......all ready have expressly covered this.
READ the OT....many of the ISRAELITES were BROKEN OFF because they STOPPED BELIEVING...
Being a believer, has NO GUARANTEE of anything.
DID YOU COMPLETELY MISS......? THE NEW COVENANT?
DO you NOT know the difference between “being a believer”......hoping they can KEEP believing, until their physical death.....
And BEING CONVERTED and KEPT IN BELIEF, by the POWER OF GOD?
Because it is much WORSE to attempt to make the Lord......A LIAR!
@Stumpmaster @GRACE ambassador
But even former believers are still saved even when they get denied by the Bridegroom & cut off, broken off, cast away for being in iniquity.
Read verse 10 as it is every believer desire that every other believe obtain the "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus and that is to by departing from iniquity to be that vessel unto honor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So that means the vessels unto dishonor, the vessels of wood and earth, that are in His House did NOT depart from iniquity. This is why He will deny them, in leaving them behind to die a physical death, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation, because they are still saved for why they are still in His House. 2 Corinthians 5:7-11
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, so, "the UNfaithful are left behind" At Great GRACE Departure of
ALL [faithful AND Unfaithful] members Of The Body Of CHRIST to Gloryland
(Heaven)?
So now the question is the Contradictions this
[partial departure] causes, need to be reconciled?:
1) No distinction of "faithful vs Unfaithful" is found here:
1Co 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall
ALL be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
[are ONLY "the faithful dead" raised?]
2) Nor here:
1Th 4:14 "For if we believe that JESUS died and rose again,
even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God Bring with Him..."
[not ALL, but ONLY "the faithful who sleep"? Then, are the Still sleeping
UNfaithful "Left Behind" in Heaven??? Sorry, this idea makes NO sense
]1Th 4:15 "...For this we say unto you by The Word Of The LORD, that we which
are alive and remain unto the coming of The LORD shall not prevent them
which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For The LORD Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in CHRIST
shall rise first:"
[ONLY "the faithful dead"?]
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be
with The LORD.
(3) And, This IS Biblical Confirmation That ALL [faithful AND Unfaithful]
members Of The Body Of CHRIST, Are ALL "Judged At The Bema Seat"
Of CHRIST, In Heaven, is it not?:
1Co 3:8 "Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and
EVERY man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry,
ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to The GRACE Of God Which Is Given unto me, as a
wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth Thereon.
But let every man take heed how he buildeth Thereupon...."
[ONLY "the faithful to take heed," OR, EVERY man?]
1Co 3:11 "...For other foundation can no man lay than That Is Laid,
Which Is JESUS CHRIST.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon This Foundation
gold, silver, precious stones,
wood, hay, stubble;..." [NOT any of the UNfaithful, Correct?]
1Co 3:13
"...Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The {JUDGMENT} Day
Shall Declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and The Fire Shall
TRY EVERY man's work of what sort it is...." [Excepting "the UNfaithful"?]
1Co 3:14 "...If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon,
he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer
loss:..." [Christ "denying them {UNfaithful} rewards," Correct?]
"...but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
Scriptures please, IF "this ONE Judgment" Is "SPLIT into TWO partial judgments"???
---------------------------------------
Precious friend, IF the Unfaithful are "left behind" Then, The Body Of CHRIST
Is Incomplete, the Unfaithful were not "predestinated to be conformed To The
Image of CHRIST" (Romans 8:29)...
and will be "missing in Heaven, and EVERY member [In CHRIST] cannot Then Be
Judged Correctly," And, Then "Presented to CHRIST" (Ephesians 5:27),
and Then:
Presented as "unreprovable, unblameable and unreproveable
[After Judgment], In His Sight, To His Father!"
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)
I believe CHRIST Teaches A "Complete" [Living] Body, and
NOT "an Incomplete [partially dead] one [to 'be joined with it's
other members' later?]," eh?
After all, "we are members ONE OF ANOTHER":
Rom_12:5 "So we, being many, are ONE [Complete?] Body in CHRIST,
and every one members one of another."
1Co_12:25 "That there should be NO Schism in The Body; but
that the members should have the same care one for another."
IF CHRIST Exhorts This To us, Why would HE [Who Cares For us ALL], do this
sort of "schism" [leaving some behind] At Great GRACE Departure to Heaven?
---------------------------
Conclusion:
Way TOO MANY Contradictions [changing/adding to Scriptures (BsR #3?)] to reconcile, eh?
GRACE And Peace...
Your reference about the rapture is given per the respect that the saved believers are abiding in Him as a vessel unto honor to be received by Him.
John 15:1-8 has verse 6 cutting off from the vine those no longer abiding in Him & His words,
Luke 12:40-49 is Jesus warning saved believers to be ready or else be left behind with unbelievers when that fire comes on the earth Luke 12:40-49 which is actually a third of the earth per Revelation 8:7-13 That fiery calamity per 2 Peter 3:3-18 will cause the rest of the world to resort to the mark of the beast system to buy & sell in order to survive in that great tribulation and it is that fire and coming great tribulation we should seek to escape from ( Luke 21:33-36 ) by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race ( Hebrews 12;1-2 ) to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House 2 Timothy 2:19-21 & Hebrews 12:1-2 as Paul said even he can become a castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.
Salvation is not lost but the first inheritance of being vessels unto honor, the vessels of gold &silver, can be lost for why the prodigal son is still son even though he be damned as a vessel unto dishonor, vessels of wood & earth, because he can never be that vessel of gold & silver once that door to the Marriage Supper is shut in Heaven.
That is why the ten virgins are the kingdom of heaven but five were foolish for not being ready as they were out to the market getting oil to be filled ( those who believe in the lie that there is a continual filling of the Holy Spirit in the life of a saved believer when we have been always Spirit-filled since salvation for why the wise virgins were ready ). Although the five missed out in joining the Bridegroom for that reception in that kingdom of heaven, they are still in that kingdom of heaven just like the prodigal son can never get that first inheritance back having wasted it on wild living, but he is still son.
Similar threads
