OSAS But Be Ready Or Else

[Enoch111]

If you had listened to our Heavenly Father and His Son in HIS WORD, you would have seen how the pre-trib rapture theory is from the devil.

Hardly. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who first revealed the Pre-Tribulation Rapture in John 14:1-3. And there are many other passages that show that His coming for the saints is imminent. In fact, all the apostolic churches expected the return of Christ at that time, but it can only happen when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". The Bible tells believers to be ready for an unexpected and unannounced coming at the Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[Davy]

You have yet to prove why warning believers to be always ready by looking to Him for help to be abiding in Him and His words is dangerous.

I don't have to prove anything to you. You obviously want to ADD a false pre-trib rapture somewhere in His Olivet discourse that is not there.

If you want to reject Christ's teaching there in His Olivet discourse and His Book of Revelation about the events leading up to His future return, fine, goto, follow men's false pre-trib rapture theory if that's what you want.

 

[Davy]

At the time you had posted that for which I had replied to, you hadn't. But after that, you have. Unless you had posted one before that which was not directed to me, I may have missed it.

I disagree, because Jesus was referring to the current buildings of the temple that was standing that the Disciples were seeing that He testified it would be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-3 That was why His disciples were asking about, among other future things.

I doubt His disciples knew to apply Zechariah 14 to what Jesus was saying. You do not get them asking those 3 questions then if they did in present view of the buildings of the temple that Jesus just through saying, they shall be thrown down.
....

You deny too many Bible Scriptures for me to have a valid conversation with you. Welcome to my Ignore list.

 

[Davy]

Hardly. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who first revealed the Pre-Tribulation Rapture in John 14:1-3. And there are many other passages that show that His coming for the saints is imminent. In fact, all the apostolic churches expected the return of Christ at that time, but it can only happen when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". The Bible tells believers to be ready for an unexpected and unannounced coming at the Resurrection/Rapture.

Sorry brother, you cannot try to use John 14 being about a pre-trib rapture.

The "many mansions" mean abodes per the Greek. And the "Father's house" is about the Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47. That... is where the "many mansions" will be that Lord Jesus was talking about. Not in heaven, but upon the earth.

 

[farouk]

Born again believers in works that deny Him,( Titus 1:16 ) will be denied by Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) for why they will be on earth for when that fire comes on earth. Luke 12:40-49 Even former believers left behind, Jesus is faithful for He still abides for why they are still saved. see verse 13 in 2 Timothy 2:11-13



It is God judging His House first for why He will deny them for being workers of iniquity because any iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied by Him for that reason. Matthew 7:21-23 And this happens at the Marriage Supper where this is hinted as sitting down with O.T. saints Luke 13:24-30

@Christ4Me
All the truly saved will indeed be saved by His grace; those who might have been regarded as former believers (outwardly) were never truly believers (inwardly) in the first place; the parable of the sower comes to mind about those who had not root in them.

 

[Christ4Me]

As I see it, nothing to do with the church.

How about this church that missed out and get left behind, as cast into the bed of the great tribulation to be judged with death?

Revelation 2: 18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[farouk]

How about this church that missed out and get left behind, as cast into the bed of the great tribulation to be judged with death?

Revelation 2: 18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

I do tend to see people as belonging to one of three categories of people as shown in 1 Corinthians 10.32: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

It is the church that will be taken up at the Rapture, 1 Thess. 4.

 

[Christ4Me]

Why does a BORN AGAIN Person Need an Advocate with the Father?

Why did Jesus teach His disciples this prayer to the Father daily after having been born again to be able to call God Father?

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

After teaching this prayer, what did Jesus warned His disciples about?

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[Christ4Me]

Sorry brother, you cannot try to use John 14 being about a pre-trib rapture.

The "many mansions" mean abodes per the Greek. And the "Father's house" is about the Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47. That... is where the "many mansions" will be that Lord Jesus was talking about. Not in heaven, but upon the earth.

@Enoch111

I do not see how you can apply John 14:1-3 to be what you say.

Where did Jesus say to His disciples that He was leaving to? Heaven with the Father.

Where did Jesus say He will be taking them to. for where He is at? Heaven, with the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So I can see why Enoch111 had applied John 14:1-3 to mean rapture wise, but one can also say that when we die, we will be with the Lord in spirit until that resurrection day comes, be it the firstfruits at the pre great trib rapture event or those that are Christ's at His coming..

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

If there was only those that are Christ's at His coming, then where is the need for how everyone will be made alive in his own order?

Like most believers, they refer Christ the firstfruits as only referring to Christ while overlooking the plural of firstfruits.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When we acknowledge what Christ has done for us at our salvation, which is to His glory as our Savior, it is always about Him.

If you are not referring to that, what are you meaning then, may I ask?

Well, first, you said when we first come to God and receive a down payment, we are filled right then and never hunger or thirst for righteousness after that.

Since that definitely was not my experience, I said, I think we need to get away from the thought that everything stated is for ME RIGHT NOW.

 

[Christ4Me]

@Christ4Me
All the truly saved will indeed be saved by His grace; those who might have been regarded as former believers (outwardly) were never truly believers (inwardly) in the first place; the parable of the sower comes to mind about those who had not root in them.

Explain this faithful saying because verse 13 testifies that He still abides in former believers.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[farouk]

Explain this faithful saying because verse 13 testifies that He still abides in former believers.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Peter's denial, for example, was not the final rejection of apostasy, but more of a case of being 'overtaken in a fault'.

 

[Christ4Me]

I do tend to see people as belonging to one of three categories of people as shown in 1 Corinthians 10.32: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

It is the church that will be taken up at the Rapture, 1 Thess. 4.

Okay. I understand that in regards to your point of view, but then again why are there 2 kinds of vessels in God's House where the vessel unto dishonor are those that did not depart from iniquity; and that includes former believers?

2 Timothy 2: 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[farouk]

Okay. I understand that in regards to your point of view, but then again why are there 2 kinds of vessels in God's House where the vessel unto dishonor are those that did not depart from iniquity; and that includes former believers?

2 Timothy 2: 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

We may remember that the kingdom of heaven may contain mere professors rather than those who inwardly and spiritually possess the genuine article.

 

[Christ4Me]

Well, first, you said when we first come to God and receive a down payment, we are filled right then and never hunger or thirst for righteousness after that.

Since that definitely was not my experience, I said, I think we need to get away from the thought that everything stated is for ME RIGHT NOW.

But this filling has been done by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. When we have done that, we are saved for why there is no hunger nor thirst for that righteousness when He is in us as promised by faith in Jesus Christ. That is why He is the Good News for by believing in Him, we are saved.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But this filling has been done by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. When we have done that, we are saved for why there is no hunger nor thirst for that righteousness when He is in us as promised by faith in Jesus Christ. That is why He is the Good News for by believing in Him, we are saved.

What I’m saying is that’s not what we experience. We experience a hunger for true righteousness in our heart and mind, AFTER we receive the Spirit. I didn’t hunger for that before I met Him.
Never mind, it’s okay.

 

[Taken]

Why did Jesus teach His disciples this prayer to the Father daily after having been born again to be able to call God Father?

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

After teaching this prayer, what did Jesus warned His disciples about?

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

QUESTION WAS:
Why does a BORN AGAIN Person Need an Advocate with the Father?

Your answer reveals NO ADVOCATE, but direct Communication with the Father.

So, why preach a CONVERTED man, STILL needs an Advocate with the Father?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Those saints in unrepentant iniquity & former believers

False converts, not saints as such then.

Luk 13:27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'

 

[Taken]

Get real and practical. Get out of this theoretical standard that is impossible to achieve in practice.

Too obtuse. Other than Jesus, no one always walks perfectly with God all the time.

Really? You waver back and forth;
Standing WITH God, then Standing AGAINST God?

 

[Taken]

Are you asking for when saved believers stop abiding in Him?

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Or are you asking for proof that believers that stop abiding in Him are still saved?

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Paul just gave an example of a former believer above, yet he points out next how that foundation and that seal is sure for why een former belevers and not just those who have gone astray, are to be called to depart from iniquity.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Now look at what is in His House. There are 2 kinds of vessels that are in His House.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Now look at how departing from iniquity makes one a vessel unto honor in His House below.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So those who do not depart from iniquity are what? The vessels unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood & earth, but still saved because they are in His House.

That is what the OP is about; OSAS but be ready or else.

OKAY.

The SAVED.....abide IN Him....ARE SAV-ED

TO All OTHERS; ( NOT IN Him....have umpteen Scriptural Warnings)
listeners, curious, students, believers, followers...
FROM:
Lurking Evil Spiritual Tempters,
Lurking Wicked men Tempters,
Devastating Damnation Consequences.

People can be told, warned, listen, reject.
You can NOT Understand it FOR THEM.