OSAS But Be Ready Or Else

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree with much of what you say, but I don't see a partial rapture.

It sort of has to be gleaned from certain verses that don’t fit anywhere else.
First, God always removed the righteous before pouring out wrath (Noah, Lot).
Then, being told to pray you are counted worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world to test its people and to stand before the Lord. Surely it doesn’t mean to just pray you will not die physically in the tribulation and that you will physically survive it. We are told to pray we are found worthy to escape it.

Then there’s also the problem of no man knowing the day or hour He will return. If you were living through the tribulation, you would be seeing all the horrible wrath of God and you would know exactly when He was returning because you have read all about it.

Then there’s also the problem of people marrying and partying if His return is after the great tribulation. Have you read about all those horrors? No one would be partying and marrying amidst all that suffering.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A partial rapture would seem to make works the basis for salvation, rather than complete reliance in faith on the work of Christ at the Cross.

A partial rapture is not generally held by most Bible-believing Christians.

Some of the passages in the Gospels which speak of future events have as a background the situation of the tribulation saints, rather than of the church before the rapture.

Well, you would expect that those who are left for more testing of their trust would then become those tribulation saints, right?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is about those who are of the fold that follow His voice and not the stranger's voice.



They left because they did not hold to the traditions taught of us ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 ) and are disorderly ( 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 ) like falling down in worship in pursuit of signs & lying wonders ( Matthew 7:21-27 ), out of lack of self control which temperance is a fruit of the Spirit and yet God is not the author of confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ). Those who seek another baptism with the holy Ghost with evidence of tongues do fall backwards in the pursuit of tongues which never come with interpretation and just assumed for private use. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & Isaiah 8:19

But know that even though we are commanded to with draw from them, we do so to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still ( 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 ) because they ae still His and thus still saved but at risk of being denied by Him when the Bridegroom comes for being workers of iniquity.

John 10:1-5 has those who climb up another way by addressing the "holy Spirit" to come and fall on them even though He has been in them since salvation, just to get tongues for private use that never comes with interpretation but is gibberish nonsense, that's following a stranger's voice.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

And yet Jesus refers to the other sheep that He has which was not of the fold that followed His voice; hence the ones that went astray following the stranger's voice; those He must bring because they are still His, for why they will be made to hear His voice literally as the King of kings on earth and they shall be of the one fold & one shepherd.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

If still not convinced, then see the effect of the rapture on believers not abiding in Him to be ready to go for when the Bridegroom comes.

The Rapture Is in Olivet Discourse

we are talking about people who left denying christ

not prodigal children.

big difference

 

[Christ4Me]

A partial rapture would seem to make works the basis for salvation, rather than complete reliance in faith on the work of Christ at the Cross.

When we are living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, living by faith in Him as we look to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in running that race, that is not looking to works done by us, but placing our confidence in Him to finish. Hebrews 12:1-2

The just shall live by faith... but what happens when the just depart from faith or start living in sin?

If the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, then what do you think God as the Bridegroom will do when He comes?

Do you really think all believers will be ready as found abiding in Him & His words to be ready to go?

When was the last time a church excommunicated any one in these latter days?

What the church fails t do or even missed, God will do for any believer found not abiding in Him and His words. Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8

A partial rapture is not generally held by most Bible-believing Christians.

Yet Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. It would explain why many will not be found ready in these latter days.

Some of the passages in the Gospels which speak of future events have as a background the situation of the tribulation saints, rather than of the church before the rapture.

The situation for the tribulation saints are described as living in the times we are in now where the cares of this life can be a snare that they would not want to leave or be able to leave to escape the fire coming on a third of the earth Luke 21:33-36 Revelation 8:7

The tribulation are the days we are living in when Christians are going astray by, and THEN there is great tribulation after the rapture when the beast is waging war on the left behind saints & new believers to kill them by the sword & hunger.

 

[farouk]

When we are living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, living by faith in Him as we look to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in running that race, that is not looking to works done by us, but placing our confidence in Him to finish. Hebrews 12:1-2

The just shall live by faith... but what happens when the just depart from faith or start living in sin?

If the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, then what do you think God as the Bridegroom will do when He comes?

Do you really think all believers will be ready as found abiding in Him & His words to be ready to go?

When was the last time a church excommunicated any one in these latter days?

What the church fails t do or even missed, God will do for any believer found not abiding in Him and His words. Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8



Yet Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. It would explain why many will not be found ready in these latter days.



The situation for the tribulation saints are described as living in the times we are in now where the cares of this life can be a snare that they would not want to leave or be able to leave to escape the fire coming on a third of the earth Luke 21:33-36 Revelation 8:7

The tribulation are the days we are living in when Christians are going astray by, and THEN there is great tribulation after the rapture when the beast is waging war on the left behind saints & new believers to kill them by the sword & hunger.

2 Timothy 2.19: 'The Lord knoweth them that are His'.

Rather than thinking of supposedly former believers - outwardly speaking -, it would be more accurate to say that the Lord never knew them in the first place.

 

[Christ4Me]

we are talking about people who left denying christ

not prodigal children.

big difference

Not by much. You do not have to stop believing in Christ and verbally deny Him to be denied by Him.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That is why He called them workers of iniquity in Matthew 7:21-23 because the iniquity they are in was denying Him. Note how that judgment occurs at the rapture event for why those ready & received will be sitting down with O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven. Luke 13:24-30

And yet even though He will deny them, for either verbally denying Him or by their works they are denying Him, He still abides.

Let us examine this faithful saying below.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

Those who die a physical death when left behind, their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await their resurrection after the great tribulation.

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Those who suffer the great tribulation, will be resurrected after the great tribulation and shall reign with Christ. Revelation 20:4-6

But that still means at the rapture before the great tribulation, they are denied by Him for not being ready as they were still in unrepentant iniquity.

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Even though left behind, He still abides in them because that foundation and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere. Ephesians 4:30

 

[Christ4Me]

2 Timothy 2.19: 'The Lord knoweth them that are His'.

Rather than thinking of supposedly former believers - outwardly speaking -, it would be more accurate to say that the Lord never knew them in the first place.

Depends on why He is saying that.

You do not have to stop believing in Christ and verbally deny Him to be denied by Him.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That is why He called them workers of iniquity in Matthew 7:21-23 because the iniquity they are in was denying Him. Note how that judgment occurs at the rapture event for why those ready & received will be sitting down with O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven. Luke 13:24-30

And yet even though He will deny them, for either verbally denying Him or by their works they are denying Him, He still abides.

Let us examine this faithful saying below.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

Those who die a physical death when left behind, their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await their resurrection after the great tribulation.

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Those who suffer the great tribulation, will be resurrected after the great tribulation and shall reign with Christ. Revelation 20:4-6

But that still means at the rapture before the great tribulation, they are denied by Him for not being ready as they were still in unrepentant iniquity.

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Even though left behind, He still abides in them because that foundation and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere. Ephesians 4:30

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not by much. You do not have to stop believing in Christ and verbally deny Him to be denied by Him.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That is why He called them workers of iniquity in Matthew 7:21-23 because the iniquity they are in was denying Him. Note how that judgment occurs at the rapture event for why those ready & received will be sitting down with O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven. Luke 13:24-30

And yet even though He will deny them, for either verbally denying Him or by their works they are denying Him, He still abides.

Let us examine this faithful saying below.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

Those who die a physical death when left behind, their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await their resurrection after the great tribulation.

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Those who suffer the great tribulation, will be resurrected after the great tribulation and shall reign with Christ. Revelation 20:4-6

But that still means at the rapture before the great tribulation, they are denied by Him for not being ready as they were still in unrepentant iniquity.

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Even though left behind, He still abides in them because that foundation and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere. Ephesians 4:30

I am confused as to what you are saying

what does the great tribulation have to do with the 2 people who left the church (1 as an Unbeliever/antichrist, 1 as a prodigal child)

 

[Cassandra]

Even though left behind, He still abides in them because that foundation and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere. Ephesians 4:30

Eph4:30 'And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption."

Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit the unpardonable sin? If you are saved anyway, why is this counsel important? You are sealed, but it appears it is conditional. There are things you cannot do

 

[Taken]

Well, you would expect that those who are left for more testing of their trust would then become those tribulation saints, right?

Rapture before trib is for those IN Christ, His Church.
Those left, have rejected Christ Jesus, and or God.
During the Trib, wrath increases.
During the Trib, God sends to the God believing Jews/Tribes, messengers, to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that they have not been hearing, preaching, teaching for the last 2,000 years.
They become saved, and their body’s killed. (Their souls & spirits rise to heaven, not called Raptured), their body’s buried or lay and rot.
AFTER Jesus’ 1,000 year reign, THEN the rest of the Saved Dead are Resurrected.....(not called Rapture)

No partial “rapture”. Rapture only applies to the Already Saved, before Trib begins.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Eph4:30 'And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption."

Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit the unpardonable sin? If you are saved anyway, why is this counsel important? You are sealed, but it appears it is conditional. There are things you cannot do

He said in the passage we are sealed until the day of redemption.

If grieving the HS was an unpardonable sin we could not be sealed until the day of redemptive.,

does this help?

 

[Christ4Me]

I am confused as to what you are saying

what does the great tribulation have to do with the 2 people who left the church (1 as an Unbeliever/antichrist, 1 as a prodigal child)

How can an unbeliever/antichrist leaves the church unless they were a part of it? So unbelievers are those who never believed in Christ to even be a part of the church to leave it .

"Former" believers and carnal believers, due to heresy, leaves the church or are excommunicated because of unrepentance.

If the church is to excommunicate them, so will God unless they depart from iniquity before He comes as the Bridegroom. 2 Timothy 2:18-21

The prodigal son is the one that was left behind, having squandered that first inheritance on wild living, and although he cannot ever get it back, he is still son.

 

[Christ4Me]

Eph4:30 'And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption."

Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit the unpardonable sin?

No. The only sin the Holy Spirit will convict are those that never believed in Him. John 16:7-11

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Plus you have His words that those who believe are not condemned, even if they do go astray and believe in Him no more.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But former believers are still His for why He still abides in them. That is why we are to call former believers & carnal believers to depart from iniquity with His help to be that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

If you are saved anyway, why is this counsel important? You are sealed, but it appears it is conditional. There are things you cannot do

Do consider that in spite of that, the spirit is saved, ( 1 Corinthians 3:15 ) the consequence for grieving the Holy Spirit due to defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ) which is our bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 will result in physical death.

Those that get left behind for being workers of iniquity are to be judged withy physical death ( Revelation 2:21-24 ) but their spirits will be with the Lord ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 & Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 ) until their resurrection after the great tribulation in Revelation 20:1-6 to serve the King of kings for the millennial reign of Christ.

This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House, the vessels of wood & earth, also known as the least in the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 5:19 as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in His name; John 1:12-13

 

[Stumpmaster]

Now, what did Jesus say first? One example. Luke 20:36.

Not Calvinist but Jesus.

That's my point . . .
35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Being accounted worthy for Eternal Life in Heaven, and thus being Divinely chosen for it, is not just being given a free pass. In accounting things have to add up.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How can an unbeliever/antichrist leaves the church unless they were a part of it? So unbelievers are those who never believed in Christ to even be a part of the church to leave it .

"Former" believers and carnal believers, due to heresy, leaves the church or are excommunicated because of unrepentance.

If the church is to excommunicate them, so will God unless they depart from iniquity before He comes as the Bridegroom. 2 Timothy 2:18-21

The prodigal son is the one that was left behind, having squandered that first inheritance on wild living, and although he cannot ever get it back, he is still son.

so you have never had an unbeliever visit or come to your church?

John said a person who denies christ (an unbeliever) was never saved.

a prodigal son WAS STILL THE SON

the non believer was NEVER A SON

A prodigal child WILL ALWAYS BE A CHILD

 

[Christ4Me]

so you have never had an unbeliever visit or come to your church?

Just signifying the difference between an unbeliever, one whom never had believed in Jesus Christ, to a former believer that had believed in Jesus Christ but was led astray by a lie in one form or another for why they do not believe in Him any more, like the evolution theory or whatever.

John said a person who denies christ (an unbeliever) was never saved.

Book of 1 John was addressing believers that believed sin was no longer sin to them.

He also addressed an apostasy where believers believed they can receive the holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation and thus assumed to be for private use.

John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1 He said when anyone testify that Christ "is come" in the flesh in 1 John 4:2 is John saying the same thing that Paul did in 2 Corinthians 13:5 about the examination of our faith where Jesus Christ is in us.

John went on in the testing of the spirits in 1 John 4:3 by those who do not profess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, meaning that spirit is felt outside of us in the assembly by visitation and can be felt coming over a believer, even giving a filling sensation. John points out that is the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world. That is the difference between knowing the real indwelling Holy Spirit from how the world does in receiving other spirits by seeing it or feeling it John 14:16-17 by knowing He is in us is how we can know any spirit coming over us later in life as a saved believer, is not the Holy Spirit but the spirit f he antichrist; as greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world per 1 John 4:4

John even went on in 1 John 4:5-6 in testing those spirits by the supernatural tongue they bring, because the world has a pagan supernatural tongue that existed before Pentecost ( Isaiah 8:19 ) which still exists today in occults, cults, and religions in the world that is gibberish nonsense and not a foreign language of men at all. God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 and not to serve as a sign for anything TO the believers but to serve as a sign to unbelievers. 1 Corinthians 14:22 So that apostate calling to already saved believers is not discerned when they promote them to seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues which is assumed is for private use.

They ignore Paul's warning about those who preach another Jesus, or another spirit which they have not received; hence continually receiving, or another gospel. 2 Corinthians 11:1-4

These be the five virgins that went out to the market to get oil to be filled for why they were not ready when the Bridegroom had come but the wise knew they were filled as in having that oil with them for why they were ready to go.

The truth that is overlooked is how the kingdom of heaven were likened unto those ten virgins which the five missed out on the wedding reception but they are still a part of the kingdom of heaven.

a prodigal son WAS STILL THE SON

the non believer was NEVER A SON

A prodigal child WILL ALWAYS BE A CHILD

I agree. An unbeliever was never a son, but a former believer is still a son, having His seal of adoption, no matter what.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.... 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

He will be like Esau in missing out on his birthright, with weeping and gnashing of teeth, but still a son as he belongs in his father's home.

 

[Oceanprayers]

That's my point . . .
35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Being accounted worthy for Eternal Life in Heaven, and thus being Divinely chosen for it, is not just being given a free pass. In accounting things have to add up.

I believe you hold to the idea that Salvation is not eternally secure for the faithful.

 

[Christ4Me]

That's my point . . .
35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Being accounted worthy for Eternal Life in Heaven, and thus being Divinely chosen for it, is not just being given a free pass. In accounting things have to add up.

Those who depart from iniquity shall become and be received as vessels unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Those who do not depart from iniquity are still in His House but as vessels unto dishonor, as vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House, ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) albeit they will wished they had departed from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come because being left behind will lead them to weeping & gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I believe you hold to the idea that Salvation is not eternally secure for the faithful.

No, it's the once faithful who become unfaithful and recant their faith who do not secure salvation.

Those who depart from iniquity shall become and be received as vessels unto honor in His House.

Not the issue under contention.

The issue is who God chooses for salvation, those come to faith in Christ but then recant and refuse to be restored, or those He foreknows will come to faith in Christ and remain faithful.

If God in His foreknowledge chooses the former (recanters) for salvation then it seems unfair that He would condemn anyone for their reprobation.

Rev 3:8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

Quote:
THE LIFEJACKET

A useful analogy is that of many shipwrecked people sinking in a sea of sin.

Lifejackets are available for each and every one of them.

If they all accept the need to put on a lifejacket now, they are closer to salvation, but not as yet eternally saved.

The lifejackets will fit anyone who truly desires to be free of the sin that they are sinking in.

All those who put on the lifejacket are assured that it will always save the wearer from sinking in the sea of sin.

But only those who keep the lifejacket on until they reach the Promised Land are eternally saved.

Those who wear the lifejacket for a while but take it off before they reach the Promised Land begin sinking again.

If those who have taken their lifejacket off reject and discard it, with no hope of wearing it again, they are eternally lost.

Guess who the Lifejacket is!

Job 29:14, Gal 3:27, Rom 13:14,

Used with Permission RIVERS OF MEANING

 

[Oceanprayers]

No, it's the once faithful who become unfaithful and recant their faith who do not secure salvation.

For me there is one of many errors there that stands out.

Faith and salvation are free permanent gifts from God.