OSAS from the Gnostics

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Dash RipRock

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Thanks for explaining your cherry picking my post and the scriptures. But the name calling, you really need to work on that too.

Jesus said Harod was a fox (sissy) and some here represent that title as they are gutless to accept ALL that the Lord has to say in His Word being that they are walking with the demonites and the devilites and are too slow to even know it.

all Calvinists are proud people

All cavinists are deceived and twist scripture while ignoring large portions of God's Word.

They believe only they are saved which is exactly how a cult operates claiming God has assigned all others to burn in hell even before they were ever born. Calvinism is clearly doctrines of demon.

Bets thing you can do is cease honoring John Calvin who was an unrepentant murderer by his own admission

It's amazing that anybody would follow a murder!
 

ScottA

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Jesus said Harod was a fox (sissy) and some here represent that title as they are gutless to accept ALL that the Lord has to say in His Word being that they are walking with the demonites and the devilites and are too slow to even know it.
I turned you accusation against me back on you, because it was you who were not taking all scripture into account. Now you continue to speak against what you yourself are guilty of.
 

David Lamb

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All cavinists are deceived and twist scripture while ignoring large portions of God's Word.

They believe only they are saved which is exactly how a cult operates claiming God has assigned all others to burn in hell even before they were ever born. Calvinism is clearly doctrines of demon.
But Calvinists don't believe that only Calvinists are saved and that God burns all non-Calvinists in hell. Have you got any evidence for that dreadful allegation?
Bets thing you can do is cease honoring John Calvin who was an unrepentant murderer by his own admission
I assure you I believed the doctrines before I had even heard of John Calvin or Calvinism.
It's amazing that anybody would follow a murder!
Did you mean "murderer?" Are you claiming that Calvin committed murder?
 

Dash RipRock

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But Calvinists don't believe that only Calvinists are saved and that God burns all non-Calvinists in hell. Have you got any evidence for that dreadful allegation?

Ah yes, and the gaslighting begins!

I assure you I believed the doctrines before I had even heard of John Calvin or Calvinism.

Yeah, lots of people don't understand what God's Word teaches.

Did you mean "murderer?" Are you claiming that Calvin committed murder?

John Calvin wrote about having people murdered who did not agree with his heresy and said he had no regrets about having people murdered. This is all well known and has been for years not that this changes anything for the calvinists who have no problem with that sort of things just like the catholics had no problem murdering people that did not agree with their heresy

None of these people knew the Lord or were being led by the Holy Spirit.
 

David Lamb

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Ah yes, and the gaslighting begins!
I had to look "gaslighting" up. I found it means: "manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning." Let me assure you that I wasn't trying to manipulate anybody, psychologically or in any other way.
Yeah, lots of people don't understand what God's Word teaches.
Sorry, what does that have to do with me saying that I believed the doctrines before I had even heard of Calvin or Calvinism?
John Calvin wrote about having people murdered who did not agree with his heresy and said he had no regrets about having people murdered. This is all well known and has been for years not that this changes anything for the calvinists who have no problem with that sort of things just like the catholics had no problem murdering people that did not agree with their heresy
I would agree with a Pastor Jim, who wrote about this very point: "Those of us who hold to Reformed Theology do so not because we are attempting to replicate the theology or ecclesiology of John Calvin, but because we are convinced that the Biblical arguments and conclusions stemming from that Synod are valid and our own exegesis confirms the five points.

If it could be proven that John Calvin was indeed a murderous wretch, it would have no effect on the theology that sprung from the pen of the Reformers. In other words, the “guilt by association” tactic has no teeth."
None of these people knew the Lord or were being led by the Holy Spirit.
 

Taken

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The Ancient Doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved”

We all know people who believe the doctrine of Once saved, always saved.
…”This is the idea that once a person becomes a child of God, there is no sin that they can commit to lose their salvation.

That IS A False Statement!

Beginning with “a FALSE Narrative” as a False Fact, IS NOT the Measure to Prove A TRUTH!

The TrUTH IS…
ONCE an individual Is Become MADE a child of God…
They have Become MADE ONCE (By the Power of God)…
A new, Wholly, Whole, Holy Creature…
AND ARE KEPT (By the Power of God)…
A new, Wholly, Whole, Holy Creature.

Your False Narrative Dictates that …
the “ POWER ” of the “Created and Made Creature”… IS Superior to Gods POWER
Which IS False.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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They WHO ARE “IN” Christ ARE “New creatures”.

2 Cor 5:17

God “Sanctifies” WHOLLY… spirit, soul, spirit of man.

2 Thes 5: 23

Not a secret… NOT every individual “IS”
“IN Christ”.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

nedsk

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all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable

can you explain these words of paul for me?

can any Anti OSAS person explain these words?
Pure obfuscation

Scripture doesn't teach osas. Period. If it did you would need to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
 

Behold

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We all know people who believe the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.”

There is no such doctrine, as "OSAS".

There is just the reality that a Christian will always be born again, and some who say they are christians and some who actually are, can't understand this and never will.........so, its really that simple.
Its just a lack of understanding that Salvation, that is God's Grace, that is Eternal Life, is not temporary, and its not gained or kept based on behavior.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Pure obfuscation

Scripture doesn't teach osas. Period. If it did you would need to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
There you go again proving me right

Eternal life is a gift

Salvation is a gift.

Pid in full on the cross

If you think you can earn grace by your works. Well then you do not understand grace at all, nor do you understand the cross

Ibelieve in eternal security. I believe as John said, I have eternal life. Its a fact.

you want to mock a term, feel free. It has no bearing on anything i say or believe, I believe what the word says ALL OF IT. Not just cherry picked verses I pull out that I think supports my view
 

nedsk

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There you go again proving me right

Eternal life is a gift

Salvation is a gift.

Pid in full on the cross

If you think you can earn grace by your works. Well then you do not understand grace at all, nor do you understand the cross

Ibelieve in eternal security. I believe as John said, I have eternal life. Its a fact.

you want to mock a term, feel free. It has no bearing on anything i say or believe, I believe what the word says ALL OF IT. Not just cherry picked verses I pull out that I think supports my view
True
True
True

Then you ignore Scripture. You aren't arguing me Einstein. If faith is sufficient it doesn't need completion by works just as James says. Maybe this drivel of yours works on others but I have no regard whatsoever for those how ignore Scripture like you do. I can do this all day.lamb chops.
 

mailmandan

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I don't think this way at all. My understanding of the doctrine of eternal security doesn't lead me anywhere near this conclusion, but it does liberate me from legalistic fear and the hypocrisy that this legalism always engenders. Instead of a motive of fear in walking with God, I fellowship daily with Him from a motive of love, which is, actually, God's First and Great commandment to all of His children (Matt. 22:36-38). And this love-motive is far greater, far more powerful, than fear in causing me to live in a way that permits the greatest measure of joyful fellowship to exist between myself and my holy Maker. In fact, the apostle John wrote that love "casts out fear" and that the one who lives in fear of God has not been made perfect in love. (1 Jn. 4:16-19)
I serve the Lord out of love (Romans 5:5) and gratitude (Colossians 2:7) and not fear and bondage to IN-security which leads to do it yourself preservation/legalism. Those who are truly born of God do not promote a license for immorality. Obedience to God after we have been saved through faith does not bring about justification (which comes by faith in Jesus Christ alone - Romans 5:1) but obedience as a pattern of life/practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:7-10) does give evidence that one has been born of God. To know Him involves a personal relationship with Him (John 17:3) that transforms our behavior. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
 
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Eternally Grateful

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True
True
True

Then you ignore Scripture. You aren't arguing me Einstein. If faith is sufficient it doesn't need completion by works just as James says. Maybe this drivel of yours works on others but I have no regard whatsoever for those how ignore Scripture like you do. I can do this all day.lamb chops.
It does not need to be completed by works. God does not need proof. God knows.

James is speaking to people who CLAIM they have faith but have no works. Hears not doers.

If works are required, it is not grace it is of works,

Not one wok will cause God to forgive one sin
 

BeforeThereWas

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The Ancient Doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved”

We all know people who believe the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.” This is the idea that once a person becomes a child of God, there is no sin that they can commit to lose their salvation. Many people today find this doctrine to be of great comfort, because it in essence relieves them of all personal responsibility in their relationship with God. After all, if I am saved, and there is nothing that I can do to be lost, then it doesn’t really matter how I behave or act, so I need not worry that much about it. The truth is that this is a most dangerous doctrine when it comes to matters of religion, because it deceives people into thinking that their relationship with God is secure, when it really is not.

Interestingly enough, this false doctrine has been around for quite a long time. In fact, early Christians had to deal with it in the 1st and 2nd centuries. During that period of time, there was a false doctrine known as Gnosticism. Of the Gnostics, one sect taught the doctrine of once saved, always saved. A Christian named Irenaeus lived during the 2nd century A.D. (130-202). He wrote a book titled, “Against Heresies” in which he called attention to this particular fact. In this work (Book I Chapter 6) he said the following regarding Gnostic teaching:...

What's interesting is that the only alternative to OSAS is works-based salvation. After all, if one has to apply personal effort to allegedly retain salvation, then personal effort had to be applied to gain it, which is no salvation at all. How can we know this?

Questions (for those who believe in the potential for salvation lost):

What's the threshold for the alleged loss of salvation?

How many sins does one have to apply personal effort against in order to avoid loss of salvation?

Can anyone draw a line so that we all can see where that threshold allegedly exists? Surely someone who believes this nonsense has one to show to state a belief in loss of salvation, otherwise how does one even know he or she is saved right now? What if any of you has already crossed over that line on any given day without realizing it if nobody can define it? What manner of doctrine has no boundaries that can define it for all to know as to if they are in compliance or not? Come on! Let's get real, here!

If a definitive boundary line doesn't exist for this one doctrine that absolutely exists for all others, then what's the problem, other than to say that loss of salvation is a false doctrine?

Given that it only takes one sin to send a soul to Hell who is not in faith, and given that we ALL sin multiple times throughout each day, where is that line of danger for the alleged loss of salvation?

The straw man argument that belief in total, absolute salvation leads to sinful indulgences, that's nonsense! There is nothing to keep any one of us from sinful indulgences no matter where one stands on this topic. Who among those who believe in salvation loss is any more empowered against lapsing into sinful indulgences than those on the other side of this discussion? Seriously. I mean, come on...that's yet another claim steeped in the pride of the flesh to think that one is better positioned against sin than anyone else simply on the basis of where one stands in relation to this doctrine.

Being SEALED by Holy Spirit, and therefore saved by grace through faith, and that NOT of ourselves, lest any man should boast, that makes boasters of those who think they are retaining their salvation from loss through works of personal effort.

So, again, where's that line? Can anyone show it to us? If not, then where's the substance behind the belief that one can lose his genuine salvation? Pointing at what was addressed to Israel as proof because of the requirement for them to persevere, that's a failure to rightly divide the word of truth on your part.

Please give to us empirical evidence to the claim for salvation loss without trying to harmonize the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace.

Blessings to you and yours.

BTW
 
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nedsk

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It does not need to be completed by works. God does not need proof. God knows.

James is speaking to people who CLAIM they have faith but have no works. Hears not doers.

If works are required, it is not grace it is of works,

Not one wok will cause God to forgive one sin
scripture says otherwise

Yes claim to have faith because you can't have faith if you don't have works. Faith is completed by works just as James said.

Where did I claim one work will cause God to forgive one sin? This is why I have no regard for you.b
 

nedsk

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What's interesting is that the only alternative to OSAS is works-based salvation. After all, if one has to apply personal effort to allegedly retain salvation, then personal effort had to be applied to gain it, which is no salvation at all. How can we know this?

Questions (for those who believe in the potential for salvation lost):

What's the threshold for the alleged loss of salvation?

How many sins does one have to apply personal effort against in order to avoid loss of salvation?

Can anyone draw a line so that we all can see where that threshold allegedly exists? Surely someone who believes this nonsense has one to show to state a belief in loss of salvation, otherwise how does one even know he or she is saved right now? What if any of you has already crossed over that line on any given day without realizing it if nobody can define it? What manner of doctrine has no boundaries that can define it for all to know as to if they are in compliance or not? Come on! Let's get real, here!

If a definitive boundary line doesn't exist for this one doctrine that absolutely exists for all others, then what's the problem, other than to say that loss of salvation is a false doctrine?

Given that it only takes one sin to send a soul to Hell who is not in faith, and given that we ALL sin multiple times throughout each day, where is that line of danger for the alleged loss of salvation?

The straw man argument that belief in total, absolute salvation leads to sinful indulgences, that's nonsense! There is nothing to keep any one of us from sinful indulgences no matter where one stands on this topic. Who among those who believe in salvation loss is any more empowered against lapsing into sinful indulgences than those on the other side of this discussion? Seriously. I mean, come on...that's yet another claim steeped in the pride of the flesh to think that one is better positioned against sin than anyone else simply on the basis of where one stands in relation to this doctrine.

Being SEALED by Holy Spirit, and therefore saved by grace through faith, and that NOT of ourselves, lest any man should boast, that makes boasters of those who think they are retaining their salvation from loss through works of personal effort.

So, again, where's that line? Can anyone show it to us? If not, then where's the substance behind the belief that one can lose his genuine salvation? Pointing at what was addressed to Israel as proof because of the requirement for them to persevere, that's a failure to rightly divide the word of truth on your part.

Please give to us empirical evidence to the claim for salvation loss without trying to harmonize the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace.

Blessings to you and yours.

BTW
Works based is not the only alternative and "works based" is a misnomer. Works alone are not sufficient and the same is true for faith. I know your head will spin 360° when you read that.
 

Kokyu

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Questions (for those who believe in the potential for salvation lost):

What's the threshold for the alleged loss of salvation?

How many sins does one have to apply personal effort against in order to avoid loss of salvation?

Can anyone draw a line so that we all can see where that threshold allegedly exists? Surely someone who believes this nonsense has one to show to state a belief in loss of salvation, otherwise how does one even know he or she is saved right now?

This is one of the best and simplest questions to put to those who hold to a saved-and-lost view. Where, exactly, is the line a born-again believer can cross into a no-longer-saved state? I've never had a definitive answer from any saved-and-lost proponent. Because there is none.

As you point out, if no one actually knows where the line is, it could well be - especially in light of God's holy perfection (Matt. 5:48) - that the slightest whiff of sin in thought, word or deed is sufficient to expel a person from His family and kingdom (if the saved-and-lost/works-salvation crowd is correct). But this would mean, as you've indicated, that no one is saved.
 

Eternally Grateful

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scripture says otherwise
no it does not

Your stuck on one verse taken out of context.
Yes claim to have faith because you can't have faith if you don't have works. Faith is completed by works just as James said.
No. James called on them who claimed to have faith but doe not have works to reconsider. Their claim

he did not contradict Jesus and paul

Where did I claim one work will cause God to forgive one sin? This is why I have no regard for you.b
Every time you claim we are saved by faith plus works

we are saved because sin is forgiven.

if works are required to be saved. Well you see the picture (or do you?)
 
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BeforeThereWas

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scripture says otherwise

Yes claim to have faith because you can't have faith if you don't have works. Faith is completed by works just as James said.

Where did I claim one work will cause God to forgive one sin? This is why I have no regard for you.b

This is stealing from Israel what was addressed ONLY to Israel:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The filth of replacement theology Gentiles use so much of the time to try and steal from us Jews what was given only to us, it really needs to stop. Please read what Paul said to Gentiles about works:

Romans 11:6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Please read scripture for what it says. The confusions in your statements along this line are the resulting dichotomies that ensue when one tries to harmonize the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace.

James also said:

James 2:21-22
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Paul, on the other hand said:

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Their messages are entirely different, with Paul saying that works don't justify anyone before God, where James said that works are necessary for justification...before whom? If not God, then whom?

Both men cannot possibly be right for all dispensations. What they said was true, but not all that is written in scripture is for all other dispensations than to those within which they apply.


Trying to steal from ancient Israel what was addressed only to them is stealing, pure and simple, which makes it false doctrine when applied to time(s) and people(s) to whom it was not addressed nor apply.

BTW
 
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