Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
Another thread that assails the gospel through other means.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You don't know what you're talking about.
OSAS : Gnostic Heresy
- Thread starter GracePeace
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Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
The New Testament does not say people that teach falsely, deceiving others are still saved or accepted by the Lord.
In fact, heresy is on God's list in Galatians 5:19-21 of things that keep people out of the Kingdom of God as is one of the works of the flesh
Yeah, but God is merciful--eg, Peter believed only Jews could be saved, and that he was under the Law, and had to keep the dietary law, but, in due time, the Spirit of Truth led him into the truth of the Gospel, gave him a vision, and Peter learned that he was not under the Law, and that Gentiles could be saved.
The teachers of OSAS, also, have a good emphasis that they place on God as Savior, and, as I outline in "Oddly OSAS", God can forget righteousness, so, when someone falls away, it becomes, in a very real sense, that they never were saved, so OSAS is partially true. So it's a partial truth, and, if correctly understood, it does not necessarily inhibit people from walking in righteousness for God's glory, so it's not necessarily as harmful as one might think--definitely not as to make them "anathema", IMO.
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The major issue, I think, with "deception" is if it leads to unrighteousness (eg, by falling from grace , as with the Galatians--Grace is how we walk in righteousness in the New Covenant); but if someone says "God justified me by grace, not my works, and now He works in me to will and to do for His good pleasure, so I will persevere in righteousness", though it is not entirely accurate, because the verse says "obey for it is God at work in you", they expect righteousness of believers, so it is not necessarily as dangerous as it could be. If they are saying "God is kind" and they are expecting to act in kindness (righteousness), then that is not "damnable" heresy, even if it is not entirely inaccurate.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
He doesn't honor His Word when He says those that do these things shall not inherit the Kingdom?
If they do not confess and forsake their sin, there is no mercy. Let me know if you need bible references.
Some think they can live in sin and still be saved, and the Lord calls false doctrine sin.
Any and all teaching contrary to what God says in His Word IS deception. No way around that.
This is WHY false teaching is tolerated in churches today because everyone is scared to call out false teaching
Do what? I gave the example of Peter, so, clearly, I'm not saying anything like what you're talking about (ie, a straw man of my position).
The mercy I referred to was in God's dealing with Peter--answer that, don't change topics or ascribe views I never espoused to me.
I think there are different viee of OSAS--the OSAS crowd here says they believe God will keep them and cause them to persevere in faith and in righteousness, as far as I know. The other view of OSAS, that it doesn't matter if you live in sin, I would condemn just as you would condemn it.
Well, yes and no : I don't think anyone has perfect doctrine, but I don't also think it is always intentional; God was still with Peter in his ignorant erroneous beliefs; inaccuracies in doctrine become problematic insofar as they draw people away from worship of God and/or righteousness.
It is frustrating when people don't agree with us--esp when we bring all our evidence out, so, then, we think they're being intentionally deceptive, or dishonest, but you have to think that that's just how people are made, where they struggle (including me) to see certain truths, but God patiently endures our inability to see things His way, bc of how we were raised. I struggle to understand the core truth of Christianity, bc I was raised by a Muslim terrorist who was extremely harsh with me, for instance, so that gives me an unbalanced and unfair view of God, and how He can require things of me, and threaten punishment if i don't, without that leading to me viewing God as I did my step dad, as if He was always irritated with me and not on my side but against me.
Anyway, I said all that to try to convey my view of OSAS people, and that I hope you can deal with the others here without using provocative inflammatory words, which destroys the discussion.
I hope we don't have to remain long on this tangent.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Big difference between someone not knowing and us today seeing we have all God wants man to know in the Bible and have no excuse for accepting false teachings much less walking in them.
If Peter or any other person does not confess and forsake their sin there is no mercy, so this applies to Peter too.
That begs the question then, if God keeps people than why did He not keep the ones who went back to living in sin thinking it's OK to do so and claim to still be saved?
You can't have it both ways. Either God keeps people and "makes" them keep walking with Him or He doesn't
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
They should simply accept what God says in His Word like a little child having child like faith and stop struggling.
The problem is that people are not accepting God's Word for themselves but are instead being indoctrinated by men.
I've said all I need to say, and I stand by it. I can see I'm not getting through to you, and I want to stay on topic, so I won't keep beating a dead horse.
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