OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Sister-n-Christ]

I don't associate with calvinist because it's not scriptural to do so seeing they don not accept the words of Jesus.




What if He condemned you to hell and you just have not found out about it yet?

It's always funny to hear those that believe God condemns some to hell never believe THEY are condemned to hell.

That's one of the characteristics of cult behavior when they say "we are the only ones that are saved" which is what the calvinists claim about their little cult they have going on.





The calvinists cannot explain away these bible truths, so they just ignore them and play like they don't count!

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 John 2:2
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The thing is,when you're not a Calvinist yet accept what God says about His Elect, you're labeled a Calvinist. And your Biblical pov is dismissed.

Those verses above in the context of what Jesus said, and he himself did not say he taught in parables so everyone would understand.
Those parables were the teaching of Salvation. If Salvation was for everyone he wouldn't have said he taught in parables so not everyone would understand and come to repentance.

And yes,given all that and the fact universalism is considered a heresy,universalism being the idea all people were saved at Christs crucifixion for their sins, the scriptures do tell us God determined some would go into Hell,as it is known now.

Why is that a fact? Because until someone finds Salvation all people born are destined to Hell. That's not Calvinism that's scripture.

People that charge Calvinism so to dismiss scripture they don't agree with try to make God out to have saved everyone on earth.
That's not scripture.

They try to make God out to be this warm cuddly eternally nice God. That's not scripture.

Those that hold to Scripture are claimed to be Calvinists even when they're not. Because who accuse them typically don't want to accept what God says of himself. When others do, we're judged wrong.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There are many orthodox doctrines which are taught in the Scriptures and which were held by all of the Early Church which are denied by Augustinian and Reformed Theology.

As much as Calvinism claims to be orthodox, its doctrines are utterly opposed to the doctrines of the Early Church Fathers before Augustine, and they have more in common with the heretical teachings of the Gnostics and Manicheans.

Sadly, Calvinist groups function as a cult today, claiming exclusively that Calvinism is Christianity, that their doctrine of T.U.L.I.P. is the gospel itself, and that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is a “heretic,” “false teacher,” or “false convert.” They are quick to break fellowship with, and falsely accuse, any Christian that contradicts their own theology.’

 

[Behold]

Supposing that the only way to exceed their "righteousness" is through Christ and His righteousness. The scribes and pharisees were standing on their own "righteousness" which could never save them. They were proud and tried putting much work on others yet they themselves wouldn't do.
JM2C

= "Nailed it"..

Here is your verse.

Romans 10:3

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If Salvation was for everyone...

Those of us who accept what God says in His Word can see right thru calvinist cult lies turu the Holy Spirit which they do not have

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 John 2:2
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Nancy]

This threads OP has requested that you please stick to the original topic. Way too many posts to go through and delete each individual one.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Those of us who accept what God says in His Word can see right thru calvinist cult lies turu the Holy Spirit which they do not have

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 John 2:2
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You're repeating yourself. And when directing your implication of Calvinist to me,you're still wrong.

 

[GracePeace]

This threads OP has requested that you please stick to the original topic. Way too many posts to go through and delete each individual one.

Thank you.

To remind everyone, the topic is about the claim that, early on, the Church fought OSAS because it was a teaching unique to the Gnostics, and the Church fought OSAS as part of its fight against Gnosticism, so the discussion is about whether that claim is true or false--the topic is NOT "Is OSAS true, or is it false, and what are the proofs it is true or false?", and all of the arguments for and against OSAS are out of place and off topic.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You're repeating yourself. And when directing your implication of Calvinist to me,you're still wrong.

I was speaking in general terms concerning the false teachings of the calvinists

 

[GracePeace]

I was speaking in general terms concerning the false teachings of the calvinists

This threads OP has requested that you please stick to the original topic. Way too many posts to go through and delete each individual one.

To remind everyone, the topic is about the claim that, early on, the Church fought OSAS because it was a teaching unique to the Gnostics, and the Church fought OSAS as part of its fight against Gnosticism, so the discussion is about whether that claim is true or false--the topic is NOT "Is OSAS true, or is it false, and what are the proofs it is true or false?", and all of the arguments for and against OSAS are out of place and off topic.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Well, there's a handful of people here suffering ACDS ,Anti-Calvinism derangement Syndrome.

Any discussion of eternal security in Christ devolves into the Gospel being denigrated by that handful into the dismissive accusation of Calvinism.

That says a lot about motives.

By the way,to keep it on topic, salvation in Gnosticism is not at all the same as salvations teaching in mainstream Christianity.

 

[GracePeace]

By the way,to keep it on topic, salvation in Gnosticism is not at all the same as salvations teaching in mainstream Christianity.

The OP includes a presentation on the history of OSAS having been fought against by the early Church in its fight against Gnosticism, because OSAS was a Gnostic teaching, and only became part of Christian thought when Augustine, a former Gnostic, Christianized it.

The topic is not "How are people saved in Gnosticism?", but is about the idea that OSAS was unique to Gnosticism.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

To remind everyone, the topic is about the claim that, early on, the Church fought OSAS because it was a teaching unique to the Gnostics, and the Church fought OSAS as part of its fight against Gnosticism, so the discussion is about whether that claim is true or false

It is true the early church opposed OSAS as part of its fight against gnosticism that came from the false teachings of Augustine, the source of so called reformed theology

 

[GracePeace]

It is true the early church opposed OSAS as part of its fight against gnosticism that came from the false teachings of Augustine, the source of so called reformed theology

The early Church, before Augustine, fought OSAS, as part of its fight against Gnosticism, because OSAS was a doctrine unique to Gnosticism, but, later, Augustine, a former Gnostic, came along and "Christianized" it.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

The thing is,eternal irrevocable salvation,security in Christ, as God identified his grace gift, is able to be synopsized as,once saved always saved. Because salvation is irrevocable.

To hell with gnosticism,quite frankly. The topic in the life of born again Christians is,eternal irrevocable security in God's Salvation.

 

[GracePeace]

The thing is,eternal irrevocable salvation,security in Christ, as God identified his grace gift, is able to be synopsized as,once saved always saved. Because salvation is irrevocable.

To hell with gnosticism,quite frankly. The topic in the life of born again Christians is,eternal irrevocable security in God's Salvation.

The topic is not eternal security, whether salvation is irrevocable, etc; the topic is the history of the Church, and, in particular, that it fought OSAS early on, because it was a doctrine unique to Gnosticism, and it fought Gnosticism, but that OSAS became "Christianized" by Augustine, a former Gnostic.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The early Church, before Augustine, fought OSAS, as part of its fight against Gnosticism, because OSAS was a doctrine unique to Gnosticism, but, later, Augustine, a former Gnostic, came along and "Christianized" it.

Exactly, which is why true Christians today oppose gnosticism and the doctrines representing it such as reformed theology

but that OSAS became "Christianized" by Augustine, a former Gnostic.

Actually, he continued to be a gnostic

There are many gnostics today that claim to be Christians

 

[GracePeace]

Exactly, which is why true Christians today oppose gnosticism and the doctrines representing it such as reformed thrology

Well, just quickly (since it's not the topic), I agree OSAS does not cohere with Scripture (though I hold to an "odd" form of OSAS), but I disagree that God rejects people who believe in it--obviously, they have the Spirit, and, to me, some of them have more of the Spirit than some NOSAS people.

Let's try to stick to the topic, and not say provocative things (eg, "we are true Christians, but OSAS believers are false Christians"), because that will cause many negative emotions, and derail the conversation, because they will feel the need to reply in kind.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Well, just quickly (since it's not the topic), I agree OSAS does not cohere with Scripture (though I hold to an "odd" form of OSAS), but I disagree that God rejects people who believe in it--obviously, they have the Spirit, and, to me, some of them have more of the Spirit than some NOSAS people.

Let's try to stick to the topic, and not say provocative things (eg, "we are true Christians, but OSAS believers are false Christians"), because that will cause many negative emotions, and derail the conversation, because they will feel the need to reply in kind.

What is eternal irrevocable salvation in Christ? 1 Corinthians 2

 

[GracePeace]

Actually, he continued to be a gnostic

There are many gnostics today that claim to be Christians

I hold that people can have some errors in their doctrine (eg, Augustine with his OSAS) without that disqualifying them from being Christian/saved.

 

[GracePeace]

What is eternal irrevocable salvation in Christ? 1 Corinthians 2

Again and again, that is not the discussion, so please do not raise that topic.

If you are going to contribute to the discussion, avail yourself of the presentation included in the OP, then you will be ready to discuss that information, you will be on topic.