OSAS Question

[Eternally Grateful]

One OSAS believer here stated:

"If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes...."

Do you agree with this comment?

Whoever said this does not really understand the doctrine of eternal security, he was mistaken.

The apostle John makes it clear. That person was never of us,

true faith does not fade

 

[kcnalp]

The school of thought that teaches we can lose our salvation never consider the challenge to prove it.

Not taking scripture out of context "proof". Proving with scripture that states every change that occurred in the repentant sinner is reversed in them by God. That they then return to their former sinner state.

Dear anti- eternal salvation proponents, proceed to meet the challenge.
Exact scripture only please.

It's a common tactic when someone doesn't like what God said to say "out of context".

 

[kcnalp]

Then paul taught a salvation of works, a salvation of if you do good enough you may just in the end be saved, he taught salvation based on our righteousness not Gods, he taught conditional life not eternal.

sorry my friend, paul never taught this, he taught to be absent was to be present he taught the eternal seal of the spirit, he taught eternal life, he taught that we recieved already every blessing under heaven as an inheritance which will never fade away.

you taking a few passages which make paul appear to,say something he did not does not change that

Christianity is a works religion. If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian. Your Faith is dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christianity is a works religion. If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian. Your Faith is dead.

Works will never save anyone

christianity is not like the rest of the worlds religions. Judaism is a works based religion and it was deemed a false religion. And shunned By God

if you think your good deeds will save you, you will not be happy when you see the judge,

 

[kcnalp]

The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. (vs. 19-21) Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Israelites lost the goodness and blessings of God, but this doesn't speak of losing salvation.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious.

God removed His hand from them? Doesn't sound like OSAS at all.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's a common tactic when someone doesn't like what God said to say "out of context".

If it’s out of co text it’s out of context. Period

some people do not like to be told that,so they make the strawman you just made.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God removed His hand from them? Doesn't sound like OSAS at all.

It’s not osas. Because induvidual salvation was not the question, you do not understand romans 11

 

[mailmandan]

God removed His hand from them? Doesn't sound like OSAS at all.

It doesn't if you only isolate one verse and ignore the context. That's called flawed hermeneutics.

24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[kcnalp]

It’s not osas. Because induvidual salvation was not the question, you do not understand romans 11

"God removed His gracious hand from them" isn't about salvation?

 

[kcnalp]

If it’s out of co text it’s out of context. Period

some people do not like to be told that,so they make the strawman you just made.

What God said doesn't fit OSAS so you say "out of context".


Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise YOU also will be cut off.

 

[kcnalp]

It doesn't if you only isolate one verse and ignore the context. That's called flawed hermeneutics.

24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Do you ever quote a single verse?

 

[mailmandan]

It’s not osas. Because induvidual salvation was not the question, you do not understand romans 11

It's already been explained to him, but he only hears what he wants to hear and just doesn't get it.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you ever quote a single verse?

Sure I do, but I don't interpret it OUT OF CONTEXT.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you ever quote a single verse?

I don't. Single verses have no meaning.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"God removed His gracious hand from them" isn't about salvation?

In the context of the passage no, he was talking about the nation of Israel (natural branches) vs the gentile church (unnatural branches)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Christianity is a works religion. If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian. Your Faith is dead.

You two are talking past each other because Paul argues that God is granting justification by faith apart from works "of the Law"; whereas James is reminding his readers that Abraham was justified by his faith in view of his works. The locus of the distinction is religion. Paul is talking about religious rituals; James is talking about acts (works) of faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What God said doesn't fit OSAS so you say "out of context".


Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise YOU also will be cut off.

Again, a nonsensical strawman argument, you use these when you have no other argument

to you it’s a you against osas argument

I will argue the word. Not your hate

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't. Single verses have no meaning.

Amen, we can quote single verses and make the Bible say anything we want.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You two are talking past each other because Paul argues that God is granting justification by faith apart from works "of the Law"; whereas James is reminding his readers that Abraham was justified by his faith in view of his works. The locus of the distinction is religion. Paul is talking about religious rituals; James is talking about acts (works) of faith.

Paul spoke to people who had faith, grace through faith. No by works of righteousness of any kind which we have done

James spoke to people who CLAIMED to have faith

big difference

 

[kcnalp]

In the context of the passage no, he was talking about the nation of Israel (natural branches) vs the gentile church (unnatural branches)

"God removed His gracious hand from them" isn't about salvation?

Just when you think OSAS couldn't get more ridiculous!