OSAS vs. NOSAS reconciled.

[justbyfaith]

As concerning the doctrine of OSAS vs. NOSAS...

It should be clear that those who have the fear of the Lord in them are eternally secure, while those who do not have that fear in them can walk away from being in the Father's hand of their own free accord.

In John 10:27-30, no one can snatch the true believer out of God's hand...

However, he can walk away himself.

But if you have the fear of the LORD in you, you will not walk away...

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Where does the fear of the LORD originate except from the possibility that one can fall away from the faith?

Therefore, the warnings that teach us of that possibility work to keep us within the boundaries of salvation...as long as we fear falling away, we are preserved from the possibility of falling away.

Thinking about this for too long can have the tendency to short-circuit the brain.

I just pray that the Lord will keep me in His fear and leave it at that. Any time I begin to get too close to the boundaries that I am speaking of, the Holy Spirit brings to my remembrance passages that speak of the possibility of falling away...and if I fear the Lord and heed those verses, I will not cross over the boundaries and lose my salvation.

But if I become presumptuous or highminded and do not fear, I may indeed cross the line into something that I cannot recover myself from.

Consider.

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:12, Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

I believe, not in OSAS, but in POTS...

Perseverance of the Saints, rather than Once Saved Always Saved.

OSAS teaches that you can go forward at a church service or crusade and if you live like hell afterwards, you continue to be saved and in fact cannot lose your salvation no matter how you live your life.

POTS teaches that when you are born again, you become a saint (see 1 John 3:9, for example) and that if you are genuinely born again, you will persevere in a holy walk to the end of your days.

This is not a works salvation. It has to do with the fact that, being genuinely born again, you are made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

Eternal security is truly found in the following verses.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[justbyfaith]

And I see you have already started another thread on OSAS...with a very flawed OP...want me to comment on it here or on that thread?

Waiting for your response, @APAK.

 

[APAK]

Waiting for your response, @APAK.

I need time ..busy doing some stuff...heads up then....the fear factor of God is over played..and 'the walking away' is your own opinion and not intended or written in scripture..I'll get back again

 

[justbyfaith]

I need time ..busy doing some stuff...heads up then....the fear factor of God is over played..and 'the walking away' is your own opinion and not intended or written in scripture..I'll get back again

The "walking away", is a common argument against eternal security as it is presented in John 10:27-30.

Rather than say that it is not a valid loophole, I address that loophole with Jeremiah 32:38-40.

 

[justbyfaith]

@APAK...

How busy have you been?

It's been almost a week since you told me you needed a little bit of time to formulate your answer.

Waiting...

 

[APAK]

@APAK...

How busy have you been?

It's been almost a week since you told me you needed a little bit of time to formulate your answer.

Waiting...

Well you previous post said you had it covered so I stop my pursuit.
Well just looking back at your OP again, I definitely disagree with this statement of yours....

"Where does the fear of the LORD originate except from the possibility that one can fall away from the faith?"

I think you are so concerned with 'falling away' and 'losing' your faith and therefore from salvation as you believe, you have to have fear of the LORD..IMO not so. Your fear of the LORD is all wrong IMO..and this is one of your pillars for this OP..??


Fear of the LORD is having a sincere and uttermost reverence for his greatness and awe, and his works in our lives and creation. I hold him in awe....he is not giving me any indication I'd better watch it or he will cut me off, and not my allowance either...

//

Why don't you have a decent avatar by now.....you don't have to show your mug. Is this a fear thing as well...lol

Blessings,

APAK

 

[justbyfaith]

Well you previous post said you had it covered so I stop my pursuit.
Well just looking back at your OP again, I definitely disagree with this statement of yours....

"Where does the fear of the LORD originate except from the possibility that one can fall away from the faith?"

I think you are so concerned with 'falling away' and 'losing' your faith and therefore from salvation as you believe, you have to have fear of the LORD..IMO not so. Your fear of the LORD is all wrong IMO..and this is one of your pillars for this OP..??

Where does your motivation for fear of the Lord lie?

Here is mine.

Luk 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Fear of the LORD is having a sincere and uttermost reverence for his greatness and awe, and his works in our lives and creation. I hold him in awe..

Is the fear of the LORD only awe? or is it not also terror because of what awaits you if you fail?

2Co 5:11, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

...he is not giving me any indication I'd better watch it or he will cut me off, and not my allowance either...

Are you ignoring Romans 11:20-22 and Luke 8:13?

Why don't you have a decent avatar by now..

My computer literacy is limited...although I can even program in the BASIC language and could once also program in Paschal. I just don't know where to find a decent avatar...sorry to disappoint you there.

 

[APAK]

Where does your motivation for fear of the Lord lie?

Here is mine.

Luk 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.



Is the fear of the LORD only awe? or is it not also terror because of what awaits you if you fail?

2Co 5:11, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.



Are you ignoring Romans 11:20-22 and Luke 8:13?



My computer literacy is limited...although I can even program in the BASIC language and could once also program in Paschal. I just don't know where to find a decent avatar...sorry to disappoint you there.

You gave me..
Luk 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Where's your context mate. Left it some place?

Christ was telling the folks to stope fearing other men as they CANNOT kill your spirit, your Creator can. Christ is not saying to be in constant fear of YHWH as you are wrongly emphasizing here. He also is saying it is important to be in good with YHWH, by being saved, as they will know when the gospel is given to them and then they need not be in fear of losing their spirits anymore. You are taking an extreme view of this scripture to support your OP again.

And then you gave me..

2Co 5:11, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Why do the believers, the apostles try to persuade men? Because if one is not truly saved they should be in fear, of losing their body and spirit. I do not and so you shouldn't either, if you are reborn.

Again where is context with this scripture?

Really, the previous verse, 10, is directly linked to this verse 11. Speaking of the judgement seat of Christ, his ekklesia. not the great Judgement! And yes, even genuine believers are to be judged although they will always be saved and lose or gain rewards and blessings at this event, not their salvation.

Again you went to the bottom again and preach woe is you and even a believer is to fear YHWH to be landed in the lake of fire. Again to suit your OP and thread.

Well Luke 8:13 is one you should focus on IMO, as it does explain the meaning of Romans 11:20-22 and similar scripture that claim that one can lose their salvation if they are truly reborn, who have not just tasted or were thrilled with the idea of being a part of the saved club. and in their heart they never were converted with the Spirit of Christ.

So, yes, I've also paid attention to all these types of scripture and still they say if I truly am saved I cannot be unsaved. I know you have been tugging at these scriptures over time now, with many people, and you still do not really understand for example Luke 8:13 yet, based on your now fear-laden OP of this thread who still doubts their salvation. Maybe you are not saved then? You really know.

You program(med) in BASIC and Pascal. They were two of my earlier favorite languages. We are dating ourselves here....lol

For the avatar...what are your likes?...favorites things?...special areas in scripture?...what about a picture of some computer code representing the infinite Creator? Make one from scratch....My God is infinity to the infinite degree, in math symbols...talk about being in awe and full of praise....

Blessings,

APAK

 

[justbyfaith]

Where's your context mate. Left it some place?

Again where is context with this scripture?

I normally give reference to scripture and expect the person who reads to be a Berean about it if they want to go to the immediate context.

It should be clear, however, that sometimes the Holy Spirit takes verses out of context, such as when Matthew quoted Hosea 11:1 in Matthew 2:15 as referring to Jesus as being the Son of God rather than Israel as was related in the orginal context.

Or, how, in 2 Corinthians 9:6, taking it in its immediate context might lead you to believe in a name-it-and-claim-it, health/ wealth, prosperity type teaching; whereas if you apply Luke 8:11 using the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv), you might come up with a more orthodox interpretation.

Or, how, in John 19:34-37, John applies to the crucifixion a scripture (Zechariah 12:10) that actually applies to the second coming of Christ in its original context.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, yes, I've also paid attention to all these types of scripture and still they say if I truly am saved I cannot be unsaved.

I agree with this; because if you are truly born again, you have the fear of the LORD in you and shall not depart from Him because of that for ever fear.

However, if you do not have the fear of the LORD in you, I would question as to whether you are genuinely born again. At the very least I would question whether you have wisdom.

2Ti 3:15, And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Job 28:20, Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:21, Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28:22, Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 28:23, God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
Job 28:24, For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:25, To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
Job 28:26, When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Job 28:27, Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.